Author Topic: More corporate abuse  (Read 1782 times)

Paddy

  • Guest
More corporate abuse
« on: September 24, 2007, 05:40:28 AM »
Cheating employees out of their wages. Again, the usual suspects. WalMart, Starbucks, IBM, Merril Lynch, Morgan Stanley et alia.   This is another example of why they need oversight.

Wage wars
Workers  from truckers to stockbrokers  are winning overtime lawsuits
 
By Michael Orey
Updated: 2 hours, 53 minutes ago

There's a place in Reno, Nev., that practically mints money. It's not one of the many casinos in town. Nor is it one of the legal brothels that operate in the area. It is a law firm, located in a wing of a private home nestled in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas. From a utilitarian office, with a view of horses grazing in a neighbor's paddock across the road, attorney Mark R. Thierman pursues a practice that in recent years has won his clients hundreds of millions of dollars from some of the biggest names in Corporate Americaand produced tens of millions for himself.

A Harvard Law School grad, Thierman, 56, spent the first 20 years of his career as a management-side labor attorney and self-described union buster. He has been pelted with eggs by construction workers and his tires have been slashed by longshoremen. But in the mid-1990s he brought a series of cases on behalf of workers in California and established himself as a trailblazer in what had long been a sleepy, neglected area of the law. Thierman sues companies for violating "wage and hour" rules, typically claiming they have failed to pay overtime to workers who deserve it. Since the beginning of this decade, this litigation has exploded nationwide. Because wage and hour laws have been so widely violated, undetonated legal mines remain buried in countless companies, according to defense and plaintiffs' lawyers alike.

No one tracks precise figures, but lawyers on both sides estimate that over the last few years companies have collectively paid out more than $1 billion annually to resolve these claims, which are usually brought on behalf of large groups of employees. What's more, companies can get hit again and again with suits on behalf of different groups of workers or for alleged violations of different provisions of a complex tapestry of laws. Framed on the wall of Thierman's office, for example, is a copy of a check from a case he settled for $18 million in 2003 on behalf of Starbucks store managers in California. But the coffee chain is currently defending overtime lawsuits, filed by other attorneys, in Florida and Texas. Wal-Mart Stores is swamped with about 80 wage and hour suits, and in the past two years has seen juries award $172 million to workers in California and $78.5 million in Pennsylvania.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

"This is the biggest problem for companies out there in the employment area by far," says J. Nelson Thomas, a Rochester, N.Y., attorney, who, like Thierman, switched from defense to plaintiffs' work. "I can hit a company with a hundred sexual harassment lawsuits, and it will not inflict anywhere near the damage that [a wage and hour suit] will." Steven B. Hantler, an assistant general counsel at Chrysler, says plaintiffs' lawyers are "trying to make all employees subject to overtime. It's subverting the free enterprise system."

In overtime cases, Depression-era laws aimed at factories and textile mills are being applied in a 21st century economy, raising fundamental questions about the rules of the modern workplace. As the country has shifted from manufacturing to services, for example, which employees deserve the protections these laws offer? Generally, workers with jobs that require independent judgment have not been entitled to overtime pay. But with businesses embracing efficiency and quality-control initiatives, more and more tasks, even in offices, are becoming standardized, tightly choreographed routines. That's just one of several factors blurring the traditional blue-collar/white-collar divide. Then there's technology: In an always-on, telecommuting world, when does the workday begin and end? The ambiguity now surrounding these questions is tripping up companies and enriching lawyers like Thierman.

About 115 million employees  86 percent of the workforce  are covered by federal overtime rules, according to the U.S. Labor Dept. The rules apply to salaried and hourly workers alike. Plenty of wage and hour lawsuits are filed on behalf of the traditional working class, be they truckers, construction laborers, poultry processors, or restaurant workers. But no one has been more successful than Thierman in collecting overtime for employees who are far from the factory floor or fast-food kitchen. His biggest settlements over the last two years have been on behalf of stockbrokers, many of whom earn well into the six figures. Thierman has teamed up with other lawyers to extract settlements totaling about a half-billion dollars from brokerage firms, including $98 million from Citigroup's Smith Barney and $87 million from UBS Financial Services Inc. (As is typical in settlements, the companies do not admit liability.) With those cases drawing to a close, he and other attorneys already are pursuing new claims on behalf of computer workers, pharmaceutical sales reps, and accounting firm staff.

As Thierman sees it, these are the rank and file of a white-collar proletariat. "In the 1940s and 1950s," he writes in an e-mail, "a large portion of American workers who were protected by overtime laws seem to have been forgotten as inflation drove up the absolute (not the relative) amount of compensation, and the bulk of workers began wearing sports coats and processing information instead of wearing coveralls and processing widgets." In a subsequent interview he says: "I'm interested in the middle classthose are my folks."

The core wage and hour law, the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, has been on the books since 1938. The New Deal statute, which mandated that a broad swath of the workforce receive 90 minutes' pay for every hour worked beyond 40 in a week, had two goals. One was to reward laborers who put in long hours. But another was to expand employment by making it cheaper for companies to hire additional workers than pay existing ones time and a half. This penalty, Thierman argues, is ineffective today, given the enormous costs of health care and other benefits for each employee. The result, he says, is that businesses prefer to require long hours, and they either pay overtime or notand hope they don't get caught.

Of course, not everyone is entitled to overtime. Under "white-collar exemptions" to the law, employers don't have to pay extra to various executives and professionals. These exemptions, labor historians say, are rooted in decades-old thinking about a workforce that bears little resemblance to today's. A clear distinction between professional and production classes used to be assumed. Nowadays mortgage brokers, for instance, crank out loan applications in assembly line operations and are paid based on how much they produce. Lenders around the country have battled, largely unsuccessfully, to defeat overtime claims by these employees.

continued at this link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20908975/

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 05:43:32 AM »
Quote
Cheating employees out of their wages. Again, the usual suspects. WalMart, Starbucks, IBM, Merril Lynch, Morgan Stanley et alia.   This is another example of why they need oversight.

From who? Big Government strangling the way people run their businesses?

Don't like it? DON'T WORK THERE!

Indentured servitude ended a long time ago.

Quote
attorney Mark R. Thierman pursues a practice that in recent years has won his clients hundreds of millions of dollars from some of the biggest names in Corporate Americaand produced tens of millions for himself.

Parasite. Thank this guy every time you pay more for something in a store, since the overhead for the store to remain profitable increased every time he won something.

Quote
Under "white-collar exemptions" to the law, employers don't have to pay extra to various executives and professionals.

If someone is too stupid to read a contract before accepting a job someplace, that's their problem now, isn't it.

RadioFreeSeaLab

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,200
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2007, 05:54:21 AM »
Heh, yeah, let's fix corrupt business by putting corrupt government in charge.  That'll work.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2007, 06:44:04 AM »
Corporations only exist by means of a charter from the government.

No government ---> no corporations  laugh
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,849
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2007, 07:16:50 AM »
I am salaried in my job.  IMO, it is understood that I am required to be working or available if the plant is down or we have problems.  that is part of the job.  There are other salaried jobs I could take in the same company that don't require that kind of OT.  Many engineers like those jobs.  I don't.  Besides, good managers will take care of you regardless of what the OT rules are.

I do say that many restaurant and fast food manager jobs are 7 days a week and thankless.  My aunt does that.  She has been the head manager of several places.  I think right now she is not the head manager and won't do it again.  Way too many hours to make it worth it.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Sergeant Bob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,861
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2007, 07:43:31 AM »
Yes, a lot of people do get screwed over at their jobs but, this is not going to change that and is not going to help the American worker in general. It will probably have the opposite effect of causing a loss of jobs. That money has to come from somewhere.

It will make a lot of lawyers rich. The title is correct though, a lot of corporations will be abused. Just another cash cow for the shysters to milk.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2007, 08:16:05 AM »
Quote
From who? Big Government strangling the way people run their businesses?

Yeah, most of those companies are in ICU on life support because .gov is strangling the life outta them.  rolleyes   No, they are all enormously profitable. 

Quote
Don't like it? DON'T WORK THERE!

Indentured servitude ended a long time ago.

And only because there were laws passed against it.  Otherwise these businesses would still be doing 7 day workweeks and child labor.  Like they do in China.
Quote
attorney Mark R. Thierman pursues a practice that in recent years has won his clients hundreds of millions of dollars from some of the biggest names in Corporate Americaand produced tens of millions for himself.

Quote
Parasite. Thank this guy every time you pay more for something in a store, since the overhead for the store to remain profitable increased every time he won something.

So defrauding someone else and stealing their money is OK with you just so you can have 'Always Low Prices. Always'?

Quote
Under "white-collar exemptions" to the law, employers don't have to pay extra to various executives and professionals.

Quote
If someone is too stupid to read a contract before accepting a job someplace, that's their problem now, isn't it.

It's not about the worker's stupidity.  It's about the corps dishonesty. They take a low level employee, 'salary' him and call him a 'manager'.  They they work him overtime and don't pay him a nickel extra for the extra work.


SteveS

  • The Voice of Reason
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,224
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 09:51:17 AM »
Yes, a lot of people do get screwed over at their jobs but, this is not going to change that and is not going to help the American worker in general. It will probably have the opposite effect of causing a loss of jobs. That money has to come from somewhere.

I am assuming the money will come from the corporations that refuse to follow the rules.  I would think that may be somewhat of an incentive to stop "screwing" the workers, but maybe not.  I fail to see how the status quo is any better.

Quote
The title is correct though, a lot of corporations will be abused.

Oh, boo hoo.  I am sure these companies have their own army of 'shysters' and know exactly what they are doing.
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 09:55:52 AM »
Heh, yeah, let's fix corrupt business by putting corrupt government in charge.  That'll work.

You're the man Dasmi. Couldn't agree more.

Remember folks, this is the same .gov that couldn't run a bordello profitably; you really want them in charge of your wages?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2007, 10:19:50 AM »
Lest Balog forget, they were issuing his wages until only recently.

They're still sending me a nice check every month, direct deposit even.  I'm way cool with that.  grin
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2007, 04:57:54 PM »
From who? Big Government strangling the way people run their businesses?

Don't like it? DON'T WORK THERE!

Indentured servitude ended a long time ago.

And what if the practices are basically industry wide?  I work IT.  I know of no coworker in my field that puts in 40 hours a week.  I know only a handful that work less than 50.  If you work for a corporation as IT, you're salary.   Yea, I'm well aware that IT now has a rep for having very bad hours and the pay isn't what it used to be.

I'm just thankful my boss is very reasonable.  He's aware I'm getting screwed by being on-call 24/7 with no compensation, so he tries his best to make up for it.  So I get toys and a nice office.  Today we finally got the blueprints back for our new area.  Shiney new datacenter and a secure office very far from other humans.  I'd prefer the cash, but I can live with the perks. 

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 07:32:35 AM »
Lest Balog forget, they were issuing his wages until only recently.

They're still sending me a nice check every month, direct deposit even.  I'm way cool with that.  grin

I got problem with the .gov paying it's people. I have a weensie bit of an issue with the .gov trying to run other people's payroll.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2007, 07:37:43 AM »
And what if the practices are basically industry wide?  I work IT.  I know of no coworker in my field that puts in 40 hours a week.  I know only a handful that work less than 50.  If you work for a corporation as IT, you're salary.   Yea, I'm well aware that IT now has a rep for having very bad hours and the pay isn't what it used to be.

So don't work in that industry. I worked in the dotcom stuff. I bailed the hell out and got into bio/medical instead, which is much more of a growth market anyway.

If you don't like the working conditions in your given field, go to school, learn another field and move. You're a free person with free will, use it.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2007, 03:17:18 PM »
So don't work in that industry. I worked in the dotcom stuff. I bailed the hell out and got into bio/medical instead, which is much more of a growth market anyway.

If you don't like the working conditions in your given field, go to school, learn another field and move. You're a free person with free will, use it.

What makes you think I'm not?   grin

Na, I'm working towards my degree at the moment and polishing a couple certs.  My plan at the moment is to finish schooling, put a bit into 401k and IRA, put some into a nest egg "just in case" and keep an eye on the job market. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,333
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2007, 05:52:27 PM »
It will make a lot of lawyers rich. The title is correct though, a lot of corporations will be abused. Just another cash cow for the shysters to milk.
I respectfully disagree.

I am a professional -- in the sense that I hold a post-graduate degree in a "professional" the practice of which requires a license from each state in which I might wish to work. Under the law, typically I am exempt from being paid time-and-a-half, I know that, and I accept that. But ...

I routinely see firms in my profession hiring recent graduates who do not have a license, who will not even be eligible to take the licensure exam for several years, who are not allowed to work without direct supervision and direction, and who ... in short ... meet NONE of the legal qualifications to be exempted from the hourly rules -- and telling these kids that because they have a degree they are salaried, not hourly. Once in awhile the firm will play Mr. Nice Guy and tell the kids that, because they (the firm) are so wonderful, they'll actually PAY the kids for overtime work -- at straight time, not time-and-a-half.

This is going on all over my state, and it's blatantly both illegal and immoral. Any of you who are legitimately in a salaried position know that salaried means you are getting paid to do the job, not to put in hours. You have at least some, and usually a lot, of flexibility in your work schedule. If you work late a couple of nights to meet a deadline, you can take the next morning (or day) off without losing a day's pay. That's the way it should be, and that's what the law requires. Not the interns of whom I write. Their time sheets are scrutinized, and if they are 15 minutes late in the morning after working a 12-hour day the day before ... they get a nasty memo from the boss.

The article makes it sound like the laws on this subject are complicated and difficult to understand. They are not. I spent years in a supervisory position, and it took me all of about 15 minutes to figure out who should be paid by the hour and who could be asked if they'd prefer to be salaried. As the saying goes, "It ain't rocket science."

Personally, having been on the short end of that stick more than twice, I feel absolutely zero sympathy for the companies that get nailed for taking unfair advantage of their employees in this. There is simply no way anyone can convince me that they don't know the rules and that it's an "honest mistake."
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Sergeant Bob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,861
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2007, 07:33:26 PM »
It will make a lot of lawyers rich. The title is correct though, a lot of corporations will be abused. Just another cash cow for the shysters to milk.
I respectfully disagree.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I know how big companies are and some of the lengths they will go to save screw people out of money. I'm not a post graduate professional but I have been on salary before (seems like an opportunity for the company to work you to death) and I know how that works. After I retired from the AF I took up truck driving and believe me, many companies will screw you out of every possible cent they can. I didn't let them.

The problem is, however noble the intentions of the people trying to get this money for these people, the John Edwards' of this country will see this a big fat opportunity to make some easy cash. I expect most of the suits will be large groups of people (class action?) who will end up splitting what will end up being some paltry sum and the lawyers will be making huge paydays.

In the end, they will be costing the corporations they are suing large amounts of money and that money has to come from somewhere someone.

Some of them will probably deserve it but, I don't think it will be limited to those.

Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

jeepmor

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 06:40:35 AM »
What's ethics have to do with business or government nowadays.  It's about the money babeeeee.  If you have to sue their ass to get it, go do it.  One of the best things you can tell people is to take good notes in your own personal notebook, for these will, and have in many cases, hold up in court while the lies and half truths of the manager won't.  I've watched a few managers hit the bricks for saying stuff when no one was around to someone who was savvy enough to keep notes and bring it forth. These corporations are run by a bunch of maggots and I've watched several in the giant corporation I work in do very, very well on the sweat of everyone else.  However, some of these guys are honest, but there's a ceiling for honesty, that ceiling is to never become a VP.  The VPs and above get to effectively set their own option prices while all the underlings do all the work on the "indicators" to make them look good.  Must be nice.

Meanwhile, the indicators are a sham to make the VPs look good.  If anything goes awry and the indicators fall, they start blaiming the underlings.  If the numbers get juggled illegally, the underlings get held accountable.  Integrity my ass, I see this stuff every damn day and many people are saying it's very Enron-like and yet it never gets recognized.  It's why I've chosen to be an invisible cog instead of going for that brass ring type job.  It's just not worth it, I'm not a politician type who can wrestle with my conscience win.  I can't look people in the eye and knowingly screw them like some of these guys do.  Sure, several years ago, this company had integrity up the wahzoo, seriously.   But that CEO left the helm about 2000 or so and everyone that followed him has just sucked, and the trickle down effect of that unscrupulous behavior has proliferated widely through the organization like a fire in the forests around LA.

The invisible cog angle works for me and I jump ship to another department if I get a crappy manager, and I've had a few.  I had one in my current job who was dumb as dirt but could operate like the maggot he truly is.  It's not about what you do as a manager, it's all about what you say.  The things getting done, or not done, can always be blamed on someone below you, always.  Thankfully, they moved his dumb butt out and we got a real good one to take his place.  It's all about who you work for.  I've worked so many times in good and bad departments alike where I was getting screwed and folks right across my cube had wonderful jobs, and it's been vice versa once or twice two. 

But, in every case I've seen people get really screwed, myself on one occasion.  It is because one of two things.  One, they did not have a superior with a backbone that would stand up for them effectively even though they knew damn good and well the person was getting screwed because they don't have any balls whatsoever to stand up for what is right.  And two, the employee did not take good notes to support their claims.  I've met more than one of those smooth operating types who you simply do not correspond with them ever via e-mail or anything because no matter what you do, they'll figure out a way to climb the idiot chain high enough to convince someone that they are right.

My takeaway from my experience is this.  I have a notebook, I take good notes, I document times, dates and often recall quotes.  I do this immediately after it occurs while it's fresh in my mind, often the same day, if not minutes after the sour interaction that is obviously over the line.  I still give a lot of people the benefit of the doubt if I can eventually reason with them, but that doesn't mean it gets erased from the notebook.

Notebooks hold up in court, and many of these dirtballs say the things that are on the hairy edge and blatantly over the line when they know there is no one around to confirm it.  HR, and if needed, a judge, will treat your notes much like a witness, very much so.  And when the person does finally slip in front of someone else, that's when the apologies and backpedalling really begins.  It's quite fun to watch really.  At the age I am now and the burnings I've taken, I take good notes.

I do agree with Manedwolf in many cases, but his stance of running from it to get away from it is just that...pu$$y!  I'm not going to do anything about it, I won't put up with it, I'll leave.  That's fine, but grow a pair once in a while and do what's right for the sake of doing what's right.  This is how America used to operate, with integrity, at least a lot more than today.  You run and hide while folks have a lot of good damning information to support these cases.  Quit running once in a while and do something about it besides abandoning your coworkers, grow a spine, often it works.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

"Oh, so now you're saying they don't have a right to whine about their First Amendment rights?  Fascist."  -fistul

Werewolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,126
  • Lead, Follow or Get the HELL out of the WAY!
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2007, 06:43:54 AM »
Quote
If you don't like the working conditions in your given field, go to school, learn another field and move. You're a free person with free will, use it.
Been there - done that.  By the time I decided to find a new line of work I was in mid level management and the hours and the politics sucked so bad I just knew I had to find something else.

I'm living proof that it is possible as I switched from Quality Assurance/Engineering to Accounting/Finance.

Went back to school in '94 and got a degree in Finance in '95.

The interview process to get into the Finance game was interesting to say the least. When it got down to the point where the interviewer was going to make an offer and was describing how great it was to work there I always asked how many hours a week they expected an employee in that position to put in. Usually the expectation was 50 to 60. I would take the time to explain that one of the things I did very well - and they were welcome to check with past employers about this - was turn 40 hour a week jobs into 5 hour a week jobs and then move on to the next task. If I did that would they still expect me to put in 50 to 60 hours a week? Most of the time they said yes - their professional employees were expected to do 50 to 60 hours a week. The looks on their faces when I told 'em BTDT, thanks for taking the time to talk to me, don't call me cuz I won't be calling you - was to steal a phrase from TV - Priceless.

I ended up taking an accounting job - entry level. In 3 years my salary was 2.5X what I started at and I was only putting in 40 hours/week and was instrumental in reducing a 20 full time accountant team down to 4. Wasn't making as much money as I made in QA but it was/is plenty and I'm a whole lot happier.

So - YES - changing careers to get better hours is very possible and in my case very worthwhile.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love
truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Fight Me Online

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2007, 06:52:30 AM »
Quote
I do agree with Manedwolf in many cases, but his stance of running from it to get away from it is just that...pu$$y!  I'm not going to do anything about it, I won't put up with it, I'll leave.  That's fine, but grow a pair once in a while and do what's right for the sake of doing what's right.  This is how America used to operate, with integrity, at least a lot more than today.  You run and hide while folks have a lot of good damning information to support these cases.  Quit running once in a while and do something about it besides abandoning your coworkers, grow a spine, often it works.

Excuse me? Leaving job you hate is pussy? Stay there and be a whipped cubeslave, filing complaints that go in the circular file, oooh, that's fighting, right.  rolleyes

If you don't like a job, tell the boss to shove it and find another, or start your own business. That would be more "bold".


Euclidean

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2007, 07:28:08 AM »
Hang on a sec...

The companies this guy sues are violating labor laws, and losing big in court.

Uh, where's the problem?  The self correction on their part is inevitable.

jnojr

  • friend
  • New Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2007, 01:41:26 PM »
All of those wage and hour laws need to be repealed.

The government has no business interfering with the relationship between employer and employee.  I should be free to negotiate any terms of employment I want with my employer, and I should be free to walk out the door and try somewhere else if we can't come to an agreement.

Glock Glockler

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: More corporate abuse
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2007, 12:53:02 PM »
All of those wage and hour laws need to be repealed

Agreed.

The government has no business interfering with the relationship between employer and employee.  I should be free to negotiate any terms of employment I want with my employer, and I should be free to walk out the door and try somewhere else if we can't come to an agreement

Yes, but if an agreement is made and the company decides not to pay the employee X monies for Y work, or vice versa, it is absolutely the job of govt. to correct that situation.