Author Topic: govt power vs. individual rights  (Read 6466 times)

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govt power vs. individual rights
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2006, 08:42:38 AM »
I am sure others, who don't hold the view that anything politicians scribble is just, will get the point. How about, "All Christians must wear badges."?

"The other day I was ticketed, and my car briefly impounded, when a policeman noticed that I was driving with a cracked windshield."

The Rabbi

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govt power vs. individual rights
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2006, 10:20:24 AM »
Quote from: mercedesrules
I am sure others, who don't hold the view that anything politicians scribble is just, will get the point. How about, "All Christians must wear badges."?

"The other day I was ticketed, and my car briefly impounded, when a policeman noticed that I was driving with a cracked windshield."
That answers whether the conversation will be fruitful or not.
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grampster

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govt power vs. individual rights
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2006, 12:22:41 PM »
Quote from: mercedesrules
Too true. What is your motive for working for the state (government entity)?

That's not very specific. Does every single resident benefit equally from your efforts or do some benefit while others are harmed?
I believe in the concept of The Common Good.  Wrapped up in that notion is the idea that each of us backs off a bit so that we can all live together with a modicum of peace.  

That also means citizens who understand the concept of the Constitutional Republic and representative government need to participate in some way.  In fact, as I have quoted a number of times, one of the founders when asked as he exited the room were it had finally been decided what form of government we should have, if they had given us a democracy, replied "No madam, we have given you a republic if you can keep it."

So rather than sit around and bitch about how the government is or isn't doing this or that, I participate.  I like to believe that my efforts produce a positive and peaceful rectifiction of whatever issue I become involved in.

To ask me if every single resident benefits equally is building a staw man.  To satisfy all people at all times in all ways is just not possible.  It can't happen.  Not even in anarchy.  Perhaps even less so in anarchy as it's every man for himself under no restraint at all for any reason except his own.  Not all men are reasonable.  In fact, my seniority with respect to breathing and walking upright, has taught me that ALL people are unreasonable some of the time.

The fire department charges a millage to operate.  If your house is valued higher you will pay more.  Perhaps an expensive newer home is less likely to burn.  But if it does, I'm sure the resident would be happy to hear the sirens coming.  Equality, no.  Common good, I think so.

Zoning Board:  I was not a fan of zoning laws until I found myself on the township planning commission as a result of being appointed to fill a vacancy on the township board as trustee.  I recognized that zoning ordinances, even though they stultify one's ability to do whatever with one's property, probably staves off the potential violent confrontation between a 30 year property owner and his new neighbor that decided to raise pigs or turkeys on his one acre lot.  In other words, good planning might stop me from doing something, but in the end the neighborhood might remain a bit more peaceful and safe for a larger group of people.

  As a market anarchist you talk about making agreements from time to time.  Well that is what zoning ordinances are.  Residents agree on a master plan for the township.  Appointed folks create the framework for that plan.  The elected representatives review and yea or nay that framework.  They are also living documents, so they can be changed, or exceptions made if the rules prohibit one from enjoying as close as possible, the same kind of property rights as others in the neighborhood.

Our 800 acre lake is infested with an exotic plant; Eurasian milfoil.  The only way to reasonably be able to keep the lake from turning into a swamp is to apply certain chemicals in well understood amounts using professional, licensed applicators.  It is costly.   So, representative government has set up a process that provides a group of citizens ( A Lake Board) to be able to extract a small sum of money from everyone to pay for managing the water quality.  If it were not so, left up to individual judgement, who know what kind of nasty crap would go into the water for weed control.  At best the many would be getting the benefit of the concern and financial contribution of the few.  How do I know this?  Because that's the way it was 25 years ago.
The way it is done now, is everyone pays a fair share based on benefit.  Not perfect.  Not total equality.  Common good?  I think so.  

I guess I could go on, but I think what I'm talking about is where a group of people in a township mutually agree, after having an opportunity to provide input by meeting and discussing objectives,  to set up the township in a certain fashion.  They elect representatives to carry those things out.  The Common Good.  

If someone new moves in and doesn't like it, he is free to leave or lobby for changes or restrain himself and get along with the Common Good.

I agree that government doesn't always work well.  In fact it disgusts me a lot of the time.  But if good people would get involved, good things can happen.  At the state and federal level I see more sparring for power, notoriety, money et al and less representative governance.  It's that way because we sit on the sidelines.  I'm not.

You sound pretty set in your notions, so I probably have bloviated into a stone wall.
But you asked, and I used some bandwidth.  Probably not as detailed nor illiminating as it should have been, but I'm hungry and going to the restaurant to eat some dead fish and drink some Irish whiskey.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw