ZERO Chance this isn't self defense

[makattak]

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/06/16/self-defense-graphic-video-emerges-of-man-shooting-protester-in-albuquerque-after-being-chased-down/

Watch the video. Guy getting attacked by multiple assailants, one screaming "We're gonna F*-in kill you!!!"

Other reports say he was arrested. If he's not IMMEDIATELY released after that video, it is pretty clear that his prosecution is political.

See:

“The shooting tonight was a tragic, outrageous and unacceptable act of violence and it has no place in our city,” Mayor Tim Keller said in a statement.

Democrat Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham issued a statement in which she took aim at the armed individuals, saying they were there to menace protesters. She said no matter who strikes first, there would be no room in New Mexico for any sort of escalation of what she called “reckless, violent rhetoric.”

“The instigators this evening will be rooted out, they will be investigated, and they will be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law,” she said.

New Mexico Senator Martin Heinrich called on the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate the shooting.

[Ben]

This was posted elsewhere here, where I commented we may need more info. There is a video showing him shoving a girl to the ground prior to being chased. As we recall, we discussed here the Florida incident where the guy was forcefully shoved to the ground and we all felt him shooting the shover was self-defense, even though the shooter was a loudmouth who may have instigated the events.

In this case, if the video is accurate, the shooter started the situation by shoving the girl to the ground, so there may be some blame for him. That said, the part of the video that is making the rounds clearly shows multiple aggressors chasing him, hitting him with skateboards (deadly weapons), and yelling "I'll f'ing kill you!"

Those three things together create a situation where to me, he can defend himself, as  I would genuinely be in fear of my life at that point.  However, his physically attacking a girl beforehand needs to be part of the discussion. And again, more info may come out.

Regardless, it appears he has had some defensive firearms training.

[MechAg94]

If he was attempting to separate himself from the previous incident and they pursued him, it may still be self defense.  

Also, you don't know why he shoved the girl.  Was she getting in his face or attacking him?  Was that self defense also?  Some of these people are out of control in these mobs.  I don't want to make assumptions.

[230RN]

^ You kind of beat me to it with those points.

The trouble is that nowadays, the
"gun-kill-bad-ban-all-guns" reaction is deeply Pavloved into too many people. Just note all that salivation from the officials.

[Ben]

If he was attempting to separate himself from the previous incident and they pursued him, it may still be self defense.  

Also, you don't know why he shoved the girl.  Was she getting in his face or attacking him?  Was that self defense also?  Some of these people are out of control in these mobs.  I don't want to make assumptions.

She was facing away from him with her arms outstretched, moving side to side to keep him and others from stopping the statue from being toppled. He grabbed her from behind and threw her to the ground.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1272775001200971777

[MechAg94]

She was facing away from him with her arms outstretched, moving side to side to keep him and others from stopping the statue from being toppled. He grabbed her from behind and threw her to the ground.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1272775001200971777

Okay.  I see that, but it is still pretty minor especially compared to some of the violence we have seen the last few weeks where no one was arrested at all.  Maybe after he is arrested 100 times he can get significant prison time. 

Yes, I think it seems pointless to defend public property like this when the elected officials and police don't seem to care about doing so. 

[Ron]

Charges related to the shooting have been dropped.

[RoadKingLarry]

Charges related to the shooting have been dropped.

Queue more riots protest in 3...2...1...

[Pb]

She was facing away from him with her arms outstretched, moving side to side to keep him and others from stopping the statue from being toppled. He grabbed her from behind and threw her to the ground.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1272775001200971777

I just saw that.

Is it against the law to shove someone to the ground to prevent them from destroying public property?   

[WLJ]

I just saw that.

Is it against the law to shove someone to the ground to prevent them from destroying public property?  

Unfortunately it seems to largely depend on which side of the politician spectrum they're on in the court of the media and polticians

[MechAg94]

Unfortunately it seems to largely depend on which side of the politician spectrum they're on in the court of the media and polticians

Another question:  Did that shoving happen immediately prior to the mob going after him?  Looked like two different incidents, but maybe it was different angles.

Either way, I really don't think that is enough to justify deadly force on him, most certainly by a mob.

[Perd Hapley]

Was the girl he shoved Sarah Silverman?

[Blakenzy]

You really shouldn't be initiating a physical confrontation when carrying

ETA: just saw the video of how he shoved that woman to the ground. That's pretty disgusting and cowardly. Guy is a dirtbag.

[makattak]

You really shouldn't be initiating a physical confrontation when carrying

ETA: just saw the video of how he shoved that woman to the ground. That's pretty disgusting and cowardly. Guy is a dirtbag.

What's it called when you help other people commit a crime?

Because aiding and abetting is pretty clearly what she's doing.

[French G.]

Glad he shot the guy. Shooter has a Zimmerman problem. Good shoot, but why TF did you put yourself in the situation? Stay home and if you’re lucky the statue falls on a moron.

[Blakenzy]

I don't see how what she was doing at that time in the footage justified forcefully slamming her head into the ground which is what resulted from his sneaky shove/pull.

If I remember correctly there was a thing called "mantle of innocence" which is a prerequisite for claiming self-defense. if you initiate physical aggression you can't resort to lethal force when losing and then call it self defense because by initiating force you have already lost you "mantle".

This Baca guy is the wrong poster boy to get behind.

[lee n. field]

Andrew Branca discusses it:  https://lawofselfdefense.com/after-action-analysis-june-17-2020/

First, before I jump into this, the Prime Directive for all of you folks in use of force scenarios, always, the best way to win a fight is to not be there. Do not be there, okay?

Everyone involved in this thing was a dope. Everyone was committing a breach of the peace. Everyone was creating unnecessary physical and legal liability for themselves.

Not to give away a spoiler, I expect this is a lawful shoot where many of us would call a good shoot.

Per him, in running away, Shooter Guy re-establishes his legal innocence.

[Brad Johnson]

Andrew Branca discusses it:  https://lawofselfdefense.com/after-action-analysis-june-17-2020/

Per him, in running away, Shooter Guy re-establishes his legal innocence.

Stands to reason and passes the sniff test. In Texas the criteria drilled into us during conceal-carry licence training is "threat of imminent serious bodily injury or death". When he began to retreat, the female was no longer being threatened, thus she and her pals were no longer justified in using deadly force for protection. When he was advanced on by the pursuing mob, one of whom was apparently wielding a knife, he became the threatened and was justified in use of deadly force as protection.

His initial contact with the female is a separate legal issue. That is clearly a case of aggressive, unprovoked physical contact which could I could easily see result in an assault charge. How far that would be taken is likely dependent on whether the prosecutor can prove intent to harm. Of course, it's a personal presumption and IANAL, so more legally-eagled eagles will have to educate us in that regard.

Brad

[Blakenzy]

If what he did to that woman is deemed a felony that may change. Also, he would have to prove that he was retreating and not just repositioning himself for further attacks, I suppose.

[RocketMan]

Zero chance this isn't going have a negative effect on firearms ownership and carry in New Mexico.

[Perd Hapley]

I don't see how what she was doing at that time in the footage justified forcefully slamming her head into the ground which is what resulted from his sneaky shove/pull.

If I remember correctly there was a thing called "mantle of innocence" which is a prerequisite for claiming self-defense. if you initiate physical aggression you can't resort to lethal force when losing and then call it self defense because by initiating force you have already lost you "mantle".

This Baca guy is the wrong poster boy to get behind.

I guess that would apply if the prosecution managed to show the mobbers were justified in pursuing and hitting the guy.

[Ben]

Not to give away a spoiler, I expect this is a lawful shoot where many of us would call a good shoot.

I think that sums it up. Sadly, as with many of these "justified shooting" situations, the shooter was not pure as the freshly driven snow.

I saw that he was other than honorably discharged from the military, so I have to wonder if he has anger or other issues. Especially given his attacking the girl from behind.

Again, when you have people attacking you with knives and essentially clubs, shouting that they're going to kill you, you have the right to stop yourself from being killed. Had he not thrown the girl down though, that situation would likely not have arisen.

[Perd Hapley]

https://bluelivesmatter.blue/old-charges-dropped-new-charges-added-against-man-who-shot-protester-beating-him/

He's being charged with assaulting three women (apart from the shooting charges, which were dropped). He's also in trouble for carrying without a permit.

And apparently he's running for city council? SMH Good luck.

[Brad Johnson]

That seems more in line with the events I saw in the vid. As much as I despise what he was apparently trying to stop, he should've left well enough alone. Would've been much better, and more effective long-term, to get clear, detailed video of each person involved and plaster the sorry faces all over the interwebz. As it is, I see the charges as stated by fistful to be justified.

Brad

[Blakenzy]

So he was making rounds targeting the females in the crowd