Airsoft guns

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Would an ak replica have a orange plastic tip?
This re 13 year old shot in california

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[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Would an ak replica have a orange plastic tip?
This re 13 year old shot in california

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I believe they're all sold that way - but many kids will pull that tip off or spraypaint it, for obvious reasons.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea. This time it was bad. Real bad


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[AZRedhawk44]

I have a hard time believing that a 13 year old would make threatening movements with an airsoft towards cops with drawn guns.

If he truly did, he deserves what he got.  Not channeling or mocking anyone on the forum, I mean that whole-heartedly.

I just can't think any 13 year old is THAT stoopid nowadays.

I think this is twitchy supercop over-reaction, yet again.  The notion that a 13 year old in CA can even FIND an AK is preposterous.  By default, it has to be a toy.  And the cops ought to have considered probability before engaging this particular nail with their hammers.

[Hawkmoon]

I have a hard time believing that a 13 year old would make threatening movements with an airsoft towards cops with drawn guns.

The problem is, too many cops have been trained to regard ANY movement as "threatening," and to act IMMEDIATELY to neutralize the threat. Who knows what the kid did, or might have done? If he even blinked, a cop on an adrenalin rush could easily have perceived it as "threatening."

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I have a hard time believing that a 13 year old would make threatening movements with an airsoft towards cops with drawn guns.

If he truly did, he deserves what he got.  Not channeling or mocking anyone on the forum, I mean that whole-heartedly.

I just can't think any 13 year old is THAT stoopid nowadays.

I think this is twitchy supercop over-reaction, yet again.  The notion that a 13 year old in CA can even FIND an AK is preposterous.  By default, it has to be a toy.  And the cops ought to have considered probability before engaging this particular nail with their hammers.

Why do you believe a 13 year old couldn't find an ak?
When we wanted a gun in dc we went to the local high school to cop one


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[AZRedhawk44]

The problem is, too many cops have been trained to regard ANY movement as "threatening," and to act IMMEDIATELY to neutralize the threat. Who knows what the kid did, or might have done? If he even blinked, a cop on an adrenalin rush could easily have perceived it as "threatening."

This is clearly bad training then.  Guns drawn and pointed at a threat like this, finger should be off the trigger and alongside the frame unless there is actual demonstrable malice on the part of the target.

Cops get away with drawing guns and pointing them for authoritah's sake far more than you or I do, and are allowed to point guns at people to obtain compliance.  As such, training needs to enforce strict trigger discipline.

I'd really like to see dashcam footage of this.  Doubt it will ever surface.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

If they were away from car it won't exist. Makes a good case for body cams. Really wanna see the dallas cams footage


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[AmbulanceDriver]

Why do you believe a 13 year old couldn't find an ak?
When we wanted a gun in dc we went to the local high school to cop one

The story he's referencing actually is about a kid with a fake "rifle". 

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/23/Calif-Sheriffs-deputies-shoot--kill-13-year-old

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea heres a pic from article i read
Its why I asked about the orange tip
https://www.google.com/search?q=13+year+old+shot+while+holding+fake+ak+47&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=kWloUq36J9en4AOE0ICQDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAA#facrc=_&imgrc=ed3GoXwKcUOzNM%3A%3B5ZDJ_i9NUD1SHM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fww3.hdnux.com%252Fphotos%252F24%252F33%252F62%252F5356674%252F3%252F628x471.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sfgate.com%252Fcrime%252Farticle%252FBoy-with-fake-gun-shot-dead-by-Sonoma-deputies-4918346.php%3B353%3B471


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[AZRedhawk44]

Yeah, you'd be asking for a bullet if you pointed that at me.  Or those deputies.  If that's the gun in question.

I still would love to see video of the altercation.  Just 'cuz the kid had a realistic looking airsoft gun doesn't mean he pointed it at anyone.

[Angel Eyes]

Updated article from the local cyber-fishwrap:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Friends-question-killing-of-boy-who-had-fake-rifle-4920174.php#photo-5360155

Photos 2 and 11 in the slideshow are pics of the fake gun the kid was carrying.  Looks like the muzzle was broken off or cut off, hence no orange tip.

[AJ Dual]

This looks to be on the cheap junky end of Airsoft if it even is Airsoft...

However, there is a lot of it that comes in without the orange tips from Asia anyway. Or, like the "medium-end" Tokyo Mauri Airsoft P90 I got wayyyyy back around 2000 so I could skirmish with a group of friends who were looking for a cheap alternative to paintball, it came with a plastic junk orange flash hider, and a metal FN-style slant brake hidden down in the instructions packet. 

Orange paint that comes off easily with alcohol is also popular with the higher-end Airsoft. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

There is supposed to be some amateur vid that starts right after shooting before cops approach the down kid with statements from the gut who drove up while cops were crouched down on otherside of car from kid.

Had a 9 year old point a replica at me once while working that was scary real looking.
I have not so mixed feelings about letting kids have those


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[Hawkmoon]

I have a friend who is heavily into airsofts. He has mostly all pistols, but even the meddle-grade ones are indistinguishable for a real firearm at even five feet away. He sent me one to look at once. It was an airsoft copy of a Wilson Combat 1911, and with the red muzzle cover removed (which he did immediately), there was no way to know it wasn't a real 1911 without handling it.

The red tips are required by law, but they are useless. The kids all take the red off so their toys will look real, and the gang bangers paint the muzzles of their Glocks red hoping the cops will think it's an airsoft. It a lose-lose situation all around, IMHO. They are fun to play with, but parents should NOT allow their kids to take them off their own property, or to play with them in the front yard where they can be seen from the street. It sucks, but this case illustrates the consequences.

[AZRedhawk44]

I have a friend whoo is heavily into airsofts. He has mostly all pistols, but even the meddle-grade ones are indistinguishable for a real firearm at even five feet away. He sent me one to look at once. It was an airsoft copy of a Wilson Combat 1911, and with the red muzzle cover removed (which he did immediately), there was no way to know it wasn't a real 1911 without handling it.

The red tips are required by law, but they are useless. The kids all take the red off so their toys will look real, and the gang bangers paint the muzzles of their Glocks red hoping the cops will think it's an airsoft. It a lose-lose situation all around, IMHO. They are fun to play with, but parents should NOT allow their kids to take them off their own property, or to play with them in the front yard where they can be seen from the street. It sucks, but this case illustrates the consequences.

Don't blame the tool.

Even if the kid was walking around with a real AK, police have no grounds shooting someone who doesn't DESERVE shooting.  Behaviors should be the cause of bullets, not props.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Don't blame the tool.

Even if the kid was walking around with a real AK, police have no grounds shooting someone who doesn't DESERVE shooting.  Behaviors should be the cause of bullets, not props.

A 13yo kid probably isn't too cognizant of muzzle discipline.

[AZRedhawk44]

A 13yo kid probably isn't too cognizant of muzzle discipline.

Then he earned his bullets, if that's the case.

[freakazoid]

I have a friend whoo is heavily into airsofts. He has mostly all pistols, but even the meddle-grade ones are indistinguishable for a real firearm at even five feet away. He sent me one to look at once. It was an airsoft copy of a Wilson Combat 1911, and with the red muzzle cover removed (which he did immediately), there was no way to know it wasn't a real 1911 without handling it.

The red tips are required by law, but they are useless. The kids all take the red off so their toys will look real, and the gang bangers paint the muzzles of their Glocks red hoping the cops will think it's an airsoft. It a lose-lose situation all around, IMHO. They are fun to play with, but parents should NOT allow their kids to take them off their own property, or to play with them in the front yard where they can be seen from the street. It sucks, but this case illustrates the consequences.

The painted tips are only required to be imported into the US, the law ends there.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Then he earned his bullets, if that's the case.

Yeah. This exact same thing has happened a couple of times before. Never ends well for the kid, and I'm sure the cop that shoots him down isn't gonna get over that too soon. A truly ****** situation, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the kid thought it would be funny to point the gun at the cop, just to spook him.

[230RN]

I've got a propane-powered "AirSoft" ("PropaneSoft?") Colt MKIV clone that looks and hefts so realistically that I'm damned glad it does have a non-removable plastic red tip on it.

Just from currently-available information, I don't know if this incident is justifiable legally, but putting myself in the Officers' places on the overall fact pattern, and with all that's been going on with these school attacks, I can sure see it justifiable emotionally.  Kid with what looks like a rifle (or, for that matter, even an adult) waves it around without muzzle training, and I can understand the "condition red" muscle reaction to it.

On the other hand, just from assorted videos I've seen, mind you, I can understand the confusion of the "suspect" under the conflicting commands hollered by the police.

"Drop the gun," "Hands in the air," "Get down on the ground," etc. all coming at once from different Officers, can result in an unthinking "Huh?" and turning-around response which would lead to those muscle-reactions.  I don't know if it's procedurally possible in a tense active situation, but maybe there ought to be only one designated officer who shouts commands in situations like these.

Yeah, I know, an extra layer of complexity added on to a "situation," but it might be worth thinking about.

Terry, 230RN

[fifth_column]

It's also possible the kid didn't believe it was really the police and might have thought it was some friends of his joking around.  In which case he might have pantomimed "mowing them down" before realizing it was the real deal. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Yea i deal with kids that age and there is really no way to tell how they might act sometimes. And i was no better at that age. Crying shame all the way round for everyone


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[HankB]

Even as a youngster, I never pointed toy guns at police. And by age 13 - having outgrown actual "toys" - I wasn't roaming the neighborhood with my Crosman .22 pellet gun  - growing up in Chicago, my marksmanship training was limited to certain limited situations. (Which probably still would have put me in hot water if found out.)

As for the red muzzle plug . . . as a kid, that would have been discarded or painted over (Magic Marker) within minutes of taking possession of the toy.

[brimic]

No need to second guess the police. They all got to go home safe at the end of the day, so all is alright.