Former Reagan official calls for impeachment of Bush

[javafiend]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts101.html

[jefnvk]

Sometimes, I can't help but think you do nothing but bash Bush.

[RevDisk]

Sometimes, I can't help but think you do nothing but bash Bush.

Everybody's gotta have a hobby.

[Waitone]

Paul Craig Roberts is no ordinary republican.  He wrote the legislation that eventually became Reagan's tax cuts.  He is an economist of top rank.  Roberts is concerned with neo-cons infesting DC and polluting the water.  Sometimes I think he goes overboard yelling about the threat of neo-cons but he may proven to be right.

Impeach Bush over Iraq?  Nope.  Impeach Bush over a terror strike in the US that was staged in Mexico?  I'm right there.  Bush will be impeached.  Democrats will use Abu Graib as the excuse, but the effect will be the same.

[The Rabbi]

What is a "neo-con"?

If you think Bush will be impeached I'd like some of whatever you're ingesting.

[client32]

If you think Bush will be impeached I'd like some of whatever you're ingesting.

I don't think it is out of the realm of plausible.  
I also don't see how Abu Graib is an offense that gets the president impeached.
If the dems push to the point of an impeachment, I see it only harming the dems.  I could be wrong, most of the time I am, but that is how I see it.

[RaggedClaws]

What is a "neo-con"?

From the Wikipedia Entry on Neo-Conservatism:

"Compared to other U.S. conservatives, neoconservatives may be characterized by an aggressive moralist stance on foreign policy, a lesser social conservatism, weaker dedication to a policy of minimal government, and a greater acceptance of the welfare state."

[Waitone]

Another definition of neo-con is a liberal who figured out the road to power is through the republican party.

Impeached as in subject to a senate trial.  Removal from office is different from impeachment.

Abu Graib will be the excuse democrat use to press the charge.  MSM will be quite helpful.  Reality is not the issue, perception is what is being manipulated in the case of Abu Graib.  A smoking city is a different issue.

[TarpleyG]

intentionally deceiving Congress and the American people in order to start a war of aggression against a country that posed no threat to the US

Whatever....keep reading...

Feb. 17, 1998, Clinton  speaking at the Pentagon

reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.

predators of the twenty-first century...will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Sandy Berger, Clinton's national security adviser, in the Washington Times on Oct. 16, 1998 - Claiming ties between Iraq and al Qaida

"we had physical evidence indicating that al Shifa was the site of chemical weapons activity.  Other products were made at al Shifa...But we have seen such dual-use plants before  in Iraq. And, indeed, we have information that Iraq has assisted chemical weapons activity in Sudan."

In one of the last election debates John "Flip-Flop" Kerry states:

Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat.

Anyway, I could keep on but what's the point...

Greg

[garrettwc]

Another definition of neo-con is a liberal who figured out the road to power is through the republican party.

Why does John McCain immediately come to mind?

[Ron]

Why does John McCain immediately come to mind?

John McCain isn't even Republican enough to be a neo-con.

Neo-Cons believe in something,  a pragmatic conservativism with a strong national defense.  

 McCain only believes in himself.

[javafiend]

Sometimes, I can't help but think you do nothing but bash Bush.

Since he is president, yes.  When Clinton was prez, he was the target.  

Anyway, I could keep on but what's the point...

The point is that Democrats are lying sacks of *expletive deleted*it also. As I kept reminding my freiends who voted for Kerry, Kerry voted for war, voted for the Patriot Act, etc.  He even said that if he had it to do over again knowing what he knows now, he'd *still* vote for the war.

[jefnvk]

So, isn't it kinda unproductive to simply bash everyone?  And to repeatedly bash everyone?

I am no more apt to believe 'Bush lied, Kids died' the thousandth time around, anymore than the first time I heard it.

[RevDisk]

Neo-Cons believe in something,  a pragmatic conservativism with a strong national defense.

Uh, sure, neo-cons believe in something.   Not sure about your idea of the neo-con movement is accurate, they are certainly not "pragmatic conservativism".  

The classic neoconservative manifesto is "An End to Evil", by David Frum and Richard Perle.   Perle is under investigations of conflicts of interest (Hollinger International, Trireme Partners LLP).  David Frum was not an American when he worked at the White House, he is a Canadian citizen.   Project for the New American Century is the main neo-con thinktank, which favors English style imperialism.

The following is a fairly lengthy paper on the origins of the neo-con movement, its leaders and its platform.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040223&s=lind

[The Rabbi]

The classic neoconservative manifesto is "An End to Evil", by David Frum and Richard Perle.   Perle is under investigations of conflicts of interest (Hollinger International, Trireme Partners LLP).  David Frum was not an American when he worked at the White House, he is a Canadian citizen.   Project for the New American Century is the main neo-con thinktank, which favors English style imperialism.

Why is this relevant to anything?  People are under investigation for all kinds of things.  Sometimes they are even innocent.  Sometimes it is politcally motivated.  And I tend to think in Perle's case it is.  He is known as the "Dark Prince" of foreign policy for his rather hawkish views.  He has made enemies.
Or is there some other connection between the two that remains unsaid??

[RevDisk]

Why is this relevant to anything?  People are under investigation for all kinds of things.  Sometimes they are even innocent.  Sometimes it is politcally motivated.  And I tend to think in Perle's case it is.  He is known as the "Dark Prince" of foreign policy for his rather hawkish views.  He has made enemies.
Or is there some other connection between the two that remains unsaid??

Uh huh.   Perle didn't just write a neo-con manifesto.

In 1983, Perle accepted $50,000 from Israeli arms manufacturer while he held a Pentagon post.  
Way back in 1996, he helped write " A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm " for a Likud affiliated think tank while he was chairman of the Defense Policy Board at the Pentagon.   Basically, he advocated overthrowing Saddam for a more pro-Israeli govt.  In 1998, Perle was one of the folks at PNAC that tried to convince Clinton to invade Iraq.   October 2004, Hollinger Inc (of which Perle was corporate director) basically sued Perle for the looting of Hollinger's assets.  He also was connected to Trireme Partners LP and International Advisors Inc., both of which are defense/intelligence related companies.   Perle was using his Pentagon influence to profit from a war that he is doing all he can to implement.

He was also involved with Total Information Awareness datamining technology, before it was shut down.   He was finally forced to resign from Defense Policy Board after he signed a deal with Global Crossing Ltd. to get the Pentagon and Committee on Foreign Investment to sign off on its proposed sale to a foreign corporation.   He also happened to be an 'advisor' to Loral Space and Communications in 2001 when that company got hit because it was illegally selling rocket technology to China.


My point is that Perle is crooked.  He helped start a war for personal profit, at a minimum.  At his worst, he might have been committing treason by starting a war for the benefit of foreign countries while distorting the truth to the American public about his intents.

[brimic]

If a 'neocon' is a liberal with a 'R' after their name as some people are saying, then why do liberals froth in the mouth with such hatred whenever the talk about GW is broached?

I voted for the guy, and I feel that because I did vote for him, he has let me down on his immigration policies, and have a lot more to be angry about than someone who voted for another alternative during the last election.

[The Rabbi]

My point is that Perle is crooked.  He helped start a war for personal profit, at a minimum.  At his worst, he might have been committing treason by starting a war for the benefit of foreign countries while distorting the truth to the American public about his intents.

You havent really shown he is "crooked."  And your allegations of treason and personal profit smack of  ignorance at best and at worst something really unsavory.

[RevDisk]

You havent really shown he is "crooked."  And your allegations of treason and personal profit smack of  ignorance at best and at worst something really unsavory.

Unsavory, eh?  I've been called much worse in my very few years on this planet.   As for ignorance...


"In 1983, Perle accepted $50,000 from Israeli arms manufacturer while he held a Pentagon post. "

New York Times, April 17, 1983

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/000347.html


"Way back in 1996, he helped write " A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm " for a Likud affiliated think tank while he was chairman of the Defense Policy Board at the Pentagon."

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

His name is first on the list of participants of the paper.   Perle was on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board at the time, and participanting in Likud policy deliberations.   The paper clearly states it would benefit Likud's position to remove Saddam from power, amoung other reasons in order to subdue Syrias regional ambitions.


"In 1998, Perle was one of the folks at PNAC that tried to convince Clinton to invade Iraq. "

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Richard Perle's name is the 11th name on the list.  Interestingly, Francis Fukuyama (the seventh name, and a founding member of PNAC) has turned on the neo-con movement, disagreeing with the Iraqi war and Bush.  Just a little side note.

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20040714&hn=10372


"October 2004, Hollinger Inc (of which Perle was corporate director) basically sued Perle for the looting of Hollinger's assets. "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A17088-2004Nov1?language=printer

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news1/times-perle.html


"He also was connected to Trireme Partners LP and International Advisors Inc., both of which are defense/intelligence related companies.   Perle was using his Pentagon influence to profit from a war that he is doing all he can to implement.

He was also involved with Total Information Awareness datamining technology, before it was shut down.   He was finally forced to resign from Defense Policy Board after he signed a deal with Global Crossing Ltd. to get the Pentagon and Committee on Foreign Investment to sign off on its proposed sale to a foreign corporation.   He also happened to be an 'advisor' to Loral Space and Communications in 2001 when that company got hit because it was illegally selling rocket technology to China."

Whoops, I missed "Autonomy Corp", based out of the UK also.  

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/EC25Ad04.html

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030317fa_fact

"Perle's Plunder Blunder ", By Walter Pincus and Christopher Lee
Washington Post.  Friday, March 28, 2003; Page A06

"Adviser to U.S. Aided Maker of Satellites" By STEPHEN LABATON
NY Times.   March 29, 2003

http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/29/business/29PERL.html&OQ=eiQ3D5062Q26enQ3Dd45c82aabd98171fQ26exQ3D1049605200Q26partnerQ3DGOOGLEQ26pagewantedQ3DprintQ26positionQ3Dtop&OP=2d8b40fd/2VYa2KQ22Io3Q22Q22Q60Q2B2Q2B||Q202|Q202Q2B/2aqodQ5DYoo2Q2B/Q3CCvyw6Q60j~


Want more?  I have dozens of more sources.   If you want to accuse me of ignorance, you best be able to prove it.  Please provide a couple sources disproving anything I posted.   I'd be impressed if you found a single source, but I'd prefer redundancy.

I don't dispute your claims of me being unsavory.  Any of my ex's would happily tell you that, and probably use much more graphic terms.   I may be unsavory, but I can at least back up my statement with proof.  Can you?

[javafiend]

What is a "neo-con"?

"IUsedto Be a neocon" by Drew O'Neill
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/oneill1.html

[Ron]

This rhetoric reminds me of when I was a younger man.

I hung out with a group of "right wingers" that preached against the income tax, the UN,  one worlderism etc..

All of their arguments were leavened with enough truth that they were able to be believed by those that WANTED to believe.

If you want to believe that the world is being taken over by "neocons" more power to ya.

They are going to have to fight the trilateralists and all the other shadowy cabals bent on world domination.

[The Rabbi]

RevDisk, nine times zero is still zero.  You havent proven anything, merely cited a bunch of left-wing and right wing loonies with an agenda.
Has Perle been convicted of anything?
Is it a crime to advocate policies that might also coincidentally help Israel?
No.

[RevDisk]

RevDisk, nine times zero is still zero.  You havent proven anything, merely cited a bunch of left-wing and right wing loonies with an agenda.
Has Perle been convicted of anything?
Is it a crime to advocate policies that might also coincidentally help Israel?
No.

Perle resigned from his post at the Pentagon.  He is still being sued by Hollinger, Inc.   Global Crossings crashed and burned.  His business interests sunk.  Not a conviction, but he's gone.  Good riddance.

Interesting, Feith is resigning due to the FBI investigation of AIPAC.  If you bothered to read any of my links, which I doubt, you'd know that Feith extensively collaberated with Perle.   One of Feith's analysts, Lawrence A. Franklin, has been been arrested and charged with espionage, which have since been downgraded to mishandling classified information.   We'll see how that trial goes.  The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn.

The Likud Party has been caught with its hands in the cookie jar and many of its affiliated organizations in the US are being investigated by various govt agencies.    Here's some interesting Fox News coverage.   http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5133.htm  

I'd appreciate it if you did something a bit more than just toss accusations and name-calling.  "Ignorance", "unsavory", "loonies with an agenda", etc.   You're truly hurting my feelings here, yanno?  

If you want to believe that the world is being taken over by "neocons" more power to ya.

Uh huh.   I take it ya didn't bother reading my links either, GoRon.

Basically, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld have been trying to achieve an agenda since at least 1996 for invading Iraq.  If it hadn't been for the MINOR issue of us actually invading Iraq, I'd say it was a bunch of conspiracy minded wackos that somehow managed to get posts within the DoD.   However, they did manage to pull off the invasion of Iraq.   FYI, Wolfowitz stepped down from his DoD post and is now working for the World Bank.  Except for Rummy, all of the original hawks calling for the invasion of Iraq have departed.

WMD?  Not there.  Iraq Survey Group shut down their investigation on or about April 26, 2005.  Oh yea, the ISG claims that there is no evidence whatsoever that Saddam shipped any WMD to Syria.   Of course, it is possible that the US govt folks charged with searching for WMD are partisan loonies with an agenda, but I kinda doubt it.  As the 1,400-member team worked for the DOD and CIA, actually I really doubt it.

[The Rabbi]

Sounds like McCarthysim to me.  Innuendo.  Guilt by association. "Connect the dots" mentality.

[javafiend]

Who is Richard Perle?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Perle