Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Fly320s on October 28, 2015, 10:05:45 PM
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I vote for cops.
On a daily/regular basis, any law enforcement officer who is working the streets will have a gun on. So, in theory, 99% of LEOs will have a gun with them, because 99% of LEOs work the street, not in an office.
On a daily/regular basis, only a small percentage of people will be legally allowed to carry a gun (maybe 10%?) And of those CCWers, only a portion of them will have a gun (maybe 25%). So only 2.5% of the total gun-owning population, who are not cops, will carry a gun that day.
What say you?
I'm just curious what the numbers would be on an average day.
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I'm also voting for cops, as they are more likely to carry 2 or 3 pistols, not to mention long gun(s) in vehicles. This is why, when politicians talk about "getting 'assault weapons/rifles' off the streets," they need to be asked if they've disarmed the police yet.
Fly320s, you didn't vote yet.
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If we count such organizations a the BATFE-IEIO and their ilk then they are also likely responsible for feeding more firearms to the criminal element than "Joe Citizen".
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I can't possibly prove this, and it may be confirmation bias... but I'd say CCW + OC > 2*LEO.
Jmho
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CC's out number the popo, and are better trained.
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CC's out number the popo, and are better trained.
Outnumber by far, but the question is: Of those with permits how many carry daily? And how many train regularly? Or ever?
Not very many I would bet.
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Outnumber by far, but the question is: Of those with permits how many carry daily? And how many train regularly? Or ever?
Not very many I would bet.
This
are better trained.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
yeah...right...
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I could post numerous examples of "not" highly trained cops, from "oops" I meant to shoot the dog not you to I can't mount an holo sight right....but that would be a thread drift. So just go on thinking what you will. [ar15]
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I could post numerous examples of "not" highly trained cops, from "oops" I meant to shoot the dog not you to I can't mount an holo sight right....but that would be a thread drift. So just go on thinking what you will. [ar15]
Tons of *expletive deleted*ing retards on the "civilian" side too. Just spend some time in a gun store...or at a free public range...
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Based on newspaper/TV reports, cops put more guns on the streets than do all CCers/OCers/gangbangers combined.
Seriously, when was the last time you heard about some Joe Sixpack taking his AR-platform "Patrol Rifle" out of the trunk and leaning up against the fender while he looked to see what was causing that noise under the car and then driving off leaving his gun on the street?
Sure, there are occasional reports of someone leaving their handgun in the restroom stall. But how often does that happen as opposed to a cop walking out while leaving his whole duty belt still hanging from the hook on the inside of the door?
stay safe.
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I could post numerous examples of "not" highly trained cops, from "oops" I meant to shoot the dog not you to I can't mount an holo sight right....but that would be a thread drift. So just go on thinking what you will. [ar15]
LEO firearms training is very inconsistent. Some agencies do a bang up job, others are pathetic. But even the worst seem to get Officer McNongunny out to the range once a year. And the size of the agency is not a good indicator. Some of the small agencies around here are very well trained.
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LEO firearms training is very inconsistent. Some agencies do a bang up job, others are pathetic.
Yep. There is the same kind of variation in training is true of non-cops who carry. Some are extremely proficient, others are downright dangerous.
But as you say, at least most cops are forced to get out to the range at least once a year.
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I could post numerous examples of "not" highly trained cops, from "oops" I meant to shoot the dog not you to I can't mount an holo sight right....but that would be a thread drift. So just go on thinking what you will. [ar15]
How about all the dumb *expletive deleted*ck hunters who shoot at an unidentified moving object that they think is a deer but is really a fellow hunter?
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How about all the dumb *expletive deleted*ck hunters who shoot at an unidentified moving object that they think is a deer but is really a fellow hunter?
In my state, with a 1/4 million deer hunters in the woods on opening day, someone getting shot is extremely rare- there is maybe one incident every other year.
I'd put their 'accidental' shootings up against any equal number of police, any day.
LEO firearms training is very inconsistent. Some agencies do a bang up job, others are pathetic. But even the worst seem to get Officer McNongunny out to the range once a year. And the size of the agency is not a good indicator. Some of the small agencies around here are very well trained.
The ones I've run across in shooting competitions or in training classes are top notch shooters- not anyone I'd want to be on the wrong side of a gunfight with, however, for every one of them who spends countless hours training/shooting, there are probably 100 that are sub par.
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The ones I've run across in shooting competitions or in training classes are top notch shooters- not anyone I'd want to be on the wrong side of a gunfight with, however, for every one of them who spends countless hours training/shooting, there are probably 100 that are sub par.
Do you really think the CCWer numbers are any better? Let's not kid ourselves here.
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How about all the dumb *expletive deleted*ck hunters who shoot at an unidentified moving object that they think is a deer but is really a fellow hunter?
The last hunting related shooting here in Illoinois, was when two duck hunters sitting in a boat and one swung on the other. That was 3=4 years ago. Thehunting shooting prior to that was 8 years ago. I know, as a Hunter Safety Instructor I see all the reports each year.
And as President of ASC, we had LEA out all the time to practice and use or ranges.
2-3% had either brought in professionals and really practiced.
50-70% had "Carl". Carl either went to a 1 day class (on the dept's dime where went to a REAL expensive dinner, got drunk and ended up back at the hotel with some broad, not his wife.), or watched a "High Speed" video, or was in the Air National Guard and had deployed to Iraq as a Supply Expert, or was a hunter so he got named "Dept Firearms Trainer."*
The reminder did the "Here's your 40 rounds, that be a load of reloads for you revolver guys, but you have to get X number in the target, if you want to get the Handgun qualified bonus this year....And GO !!"
There were quite a few in the last two categories that should have been only allowed to Barney Fife their one round. It was sad to watch.
*- The last one is the no-*expletive deleted*it way the Chicago office of the BATFEIO, picked Firearms Training guy. It was literally everyone come out, blow off a bunch of Uncle Sugar's ammo, and I'll be grilling up some Venison for everyone to try when we're done. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: While watching them train, myself and couple of Board members decided we needed to go back to the office and re-read our insurance policies once again..
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Do you really think the CCWer numbers are any better? Let's not kid ourselves here.
If they weren't we'd be hearing a media outcry- every day.
Remember: Cops have to carry guns, it's one of the requirements of getting a paycheck.
CCWers are carrying a gun because they either see a need or they want to.
There's a big difference in overall attitudes when you compare someone compelled to do something vs someone with a want/need to do something.
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Do you really think the CCWer numbers are any better? Let's not kid ourselves here.
Given how busy ranges have become around here with training classes, then yes. I would say the average CCW'er is much better trained and practices much more then the average LEO, having observed both groups for several years.
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NYPD......'nuff said.
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If they weren't we'd be hearing a media outcry- every day.
Remember: Cops have to carry guns, it's one of the requirements of getting a paycheck.
CCWers are carrying a gun because they either see a need or they want to.
There's a big difference in overall attitudes when you compare someone compelled to do something vs someone with a want/need to do something.
There is a media outcry every day, but let's not pretend that tells us anything about the reality of the situation. :lol:
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There is a media outcry every day, but let's not pretend that tells us anything about the reality of the situation. :lol:
err.. point well taken.
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When I first took defensive pistol classes, the instructors always said, "you're now better defensive shooters than most cops". I used to think they were just blowing smoke up our asses, but I've come to learn they were pretty much right. As Roo_ster mentioned, yeah, there will be departments that train their people well. I think that's the minority though, and it applies to CCW holders as well.
I would never advocate training by force of government, but I sure wish we could get 100% voluntary participation in training classes. As I've mentioned before, I always thought I was a good shooter until I took my first "get off the 'X' " class.
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As I've mentioned before, I always thought I was a good shooter until I took my first "get off the 'X' " class.
:rofl:
I always feel like the guy who rode the short bus in when I take classes.
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:rofl:
I always feel like the guy who rode the short bus in when I take classes.
Me too. It can be very humbling. :)
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I sincerely hope it's citizens by a wide margin. That could be important one day.
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I sincerely hope it's citizens by a wide margin. That could be important one day.
Maybe. The US maintains 300 police for every 1 citizen. That's 0.3% of the population being a police officer. CCW numbers vary by state but last I checked we we were around 2-6% depending on where you went. Now the number of people who ACTUALLY carry is lower than that of those licensed but you would have to assume about 10% of those licensed actually carry to put CCW on par with LE numbers.
As to total number of guns out there... the civilian population of the US dwarfs everybody.
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I sincerely hope it's citizens by a wide margin. That could be important one day.
When the OP said, "on the street," he seems to be referring to guns that are being carried in public - not just the number of guns owned by either group. I think truck/trunk guns also count, FWIW.
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Maybe. The US maintains 300 police for every 1 citizen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY
While I feel you may not be too far off the mark [tinfoil] [tinfoil] [tinfoil] But I think Giga, you need a break or something. I think your mathimacating is a bit off there..... ;) :police: :police: :police: :police: :police:
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Maybe. The US maintains 300 police for every 1 citizen.
I'm pretty sure there aren't enough people on the planet for that...
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I'm pretty sure there aren't enough people on the planet for that...
I'm pretty sure it's the goal of some politicians.
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Maybe. The US maintains 300 police for every 1 citizen.
I'm pretty sure there aren't enough people on the planet for that...
I suspect he means that there is 1 policeman for every 300 people....I don't know if the numbers match up but it seems more reasonable than being over-run by policemen ....
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I suspect he means that there is 1 policeman for every 300 people....I don't know if the numbers match up but it seems more reasonable than being over-run by policemen ....
Yeah, I typed out it backwards.
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you guys must live in a different part of America than I do. Around here, probably 10 to 15% of the folks are packing. Across America, there are around 700K cops, and certainly not all of them on the street at one time. Not more than a quarter of that, would be my guess.
There are of course, many more Citizens out and about.
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you guys must live in a different part of America than I do. Around here, probably 10 to 15% of the folks are packing. Across America, there are around 700K cops, and certainly not all of them on the street at one time. Not more than a quarter of that, would be my guess.
There are of course, many more Citizens out and about.
We're all very proud of wherever it is you live, but 15% of your community does little to bring up the numbers in the rest of the country.
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Then, in cities where they need cops to carry because citizens aren't allowed, we have cops who can't carry because they flunk their marksmanship tests. :)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/01/sheriff-at-center-sanctuary-city-debate-illegal-immigrant-allegedly-killing-san/?intcmp=hpbt3
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Then, in cities where they need cops to carry because citizens aren't allowed, we have cops who can't carry because they flunk their marksmanship tests. :)
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/01/sheriff-at-center-sanctuary-city-debate-illegal-immigrant-allegedly-killing-san/?intcmp=hpbt3
[San Francisco Sheriff] Mirkarimi has endured a series of personal and official embarrassments, including having his driver's license briefly suspended and flunking a marksmanship test that prevents him from carrying a service weapon.
:rofl:
The article also says he's a founder of the California Green Party. Sounds about right. :rofl:
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Well of course San Francisco would have a sheriff who is a limp wristed pansy ass far left liberal who got to the top through affirmative action and couldn't pass a firearms qualification test nor pilot his Prius with a basic level of competency.