Author Topic: Holy [censored]!!!!!  (Read 8126 times)

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,335
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 05:35:57 PM »
I had a 1500 sq ft shop built. The electric CoOp came and set me a new pole and meter and I wired the entire shop including 220 and 110 ckts from the pole in.
I never paid a dime for permits or inspections.

Regional differences. In this state, the electric company will not energize a meter without a sign-off by the municipal building inspector.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,335
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 05:41:21 PM »
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why? I didn't write the law. Don't blame me for doing a job that State law requires, and doing it honestly to the best of my knowledge and ability.

And I feel reasonably certain that my inspections have prevented at least two almost certain electrocutions. I can live with myself over that.

What I'm amazed at in Ambulance Driver's case is the amount of the permit fee. $1,000 as the FEE for a permit to rewire is insane. Under our permit fee schedule, a $1,000 fee will get you the permit to build a house costing $85,000. What's a rewire job worth, maybe $5,000? Our fee would be 73 bucks.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 11:47:21 PM by Hawkmoon »
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 05:52:15 PM »
Why? I didn't write the law. Don't blame me for doing a job that State law requires, and doing it honestly to the best of my knowledge and ability.

And I feel reasonable certain that my inspections have prevented at least two almost certain electrocutions. I can live with myself over that.

"I was just following orders" is never an acceptable excuse. Depriving people of their rights (and "It's my property I can do what I want with it" is a pretty basic right) is not ok, even when the State passes a law requiring it.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

AmbulanceDriver

  • Junior Rocketeer
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,937
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 06:25:05 PM »
Balog, I don't quite see it as "depriving people of their rights".   For one, unless your mortgage is paid off, it's not actually *your* property.   Until the note is paid, it's the bank's property.  And while you may be perfectly capable and competent to do everything from electrical to plumbing to structural, not everyone is.   Like I said, I've found more than my fair share of "stupid homeowner tricks" on this house already.   I can guarantee you that none of those were permitted.   Finally, the permit/inspection process is *supposed* to prove to the eventual buyer of your house that everything in there is to code when it was built.

Trust me, I'm not a huge fan of the process.  But I do see where it might be necessary. 
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

"For some many people, attempting to process a logical line of thought brings up the blue screen of death." -Blakenzy

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 07:06:56 PM »
Balog, I don't quite see it as "depriving people of their rights".   For one, unless your mortgage is paid off, it's not actually *your* property.   Until the note is paid, it's the bank's property.  And while you may be perfectly capable and competent to do everything from electrical to plumbing to structural, not everyone is.   Like I said, I've found more than my fair share of "stupid homeowner tricks" on this house already.   I can guarantee you that none of those were permitted.   Finally, the permit/inspection process is *supposed* to prove to the eventual buyer of your house that everything in there is to code when it was built.

Trust me, I'm not a huge fan of the process.  But I do see where it might be necessary. 


Some people aren't competent to own guns. Should they need permits to do so? Some people aren't competent to cook in a sanitary way. Should everyone need to get permits and pass health inspections like a restaurant?

If the buyer wants to make sure it's been done well, they can hire an inspector. And that "it actually belongs to the bank" thing is utter BS. Finally, do you approve of this in all areas? You want the .gov to have to grant you permission before you can do repairs on your car? What about something like handloading, you ok with needing to beg for permission to do that?

If you don't see the need to beg the .gov for permission to do what you want on your own damn possessions as a violation of rights, then we have very different beliefs about property rights.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2012, 07:22:03 PM »
I'm with AD.

There is a fine line between reasonable and unreasonable in this area. An inspector taking a look and signing off that the work is done correctly is one thing, but some areas are draconian.

There's things a home inspector isn't going to be able to see or find and these need to be seen before they're covered up.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2012, 07:23:35 PM »
around here no permits for "bonafide agricultural use"  hypothetically there might be a 120x60 foot shop with 2 60 x40 additions. and 1 400 watt service ans a second 3 phase. out there in the country under those auspices.   and ironically the county came out measured it and charges him taxes on it.  

during the bldg boom here they did "drive by" inspections.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

AmbulanceDriver

  • Junior Rocketeer
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,937
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2012, 07:30:52 PM »
I really do get what you are saying.   And you're right.  Some people *aren't* competent to own guns.   The list is pretty specific, in fact:

Under indictment or information in any court for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
who is a fugitive from justice;
who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
who is an illegal alien;
who has been discharged from the military under dishonorable conditions;
who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;
who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (enacted by the Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, Pub. L. No. 104-208, effective September 30, 1996). 18 USC 922(g) and (n).

Are you saying we should lift all gov't restrictions and allow these people to own guns?   Because clearly we're violating their property rights by not allowing them to own guns.   Oh, and if you've ever bought a firearm from a licensed dealer, you *have* asked the gov't for permission.  Or did you not fill out a 4473, or go through a NICS check?

Oh, and not cooking in a sanitary way is often times self-correcting.   Or will be, eventually.  There's only so many times your body can handle salmonella, e. coli, etc.  Not *really* related to whether or not my house burns down because I thought I knew how to wire an outlet for my dryer.

And why is "it actually belongs to the bank" utter BS?   If you are carrying a mortgage, you do NOT in fact own your home free and clear, and frankly, thinking about it, I'd actually be surprised if buried in the mortgage contract somewhere there isn't a clause that states  that all improvements must be done by a contractor, w/ permits, inspections, etc.....  

And if my house catches on fire, then I not only put myself and my family at risk, but I also put the firefighters at risk, as well as my neighbors homes.  

I assume then that you'll be championing the drive to revoke the need for driver's licenses, as clearly you shouldn't need to get permission from the gov't to use your possession (your car) as you see fit?   And how dare the gov't tell you how fast you can drive???  

Hell, why should foreigners need to get permission from the gov't to come into the country????   Throw open the borders man!



Again.  I don't like the fact that I'm supposed to get a permit to work on my house.   But I understand the need for it.  
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

http://www.appleseedinfo.org

"For some many people, attempting to process a logical line of thought brings up the blue screen of death." -Blakenzy

never_retreat

  • Head Muckety Muck
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,158
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2012, 10:42:47 PM »
I pulled an building, plumbing, electrical and fire permit in my town for the partial finish off of the basement.
It was 400 some bucks. I plan on doing more of the basement latter. I will not be getting another permit.
The partially finished basement will still be a partially finnished basement in the future so no one should be wiser if we were to sell down the road.
I'm replacing the current 20 space 200 amp panel, with a 40 space. Adding a 100 amp sub to the basement. Some lights and outlets.

The only thing that really pissed me off was the charge for the separate fire protection permit. I'm adding hard wired smoke detectors to the basement and the original house. This is not required by code. I could have just stuck up a battery one in the basement. I would have thought it would have been part of the electrical permit. I guess not. There actually was no spot on the electrical permit for it so I wrote it in one of the blank spots. Nope you need a separate one. Of course why did I not realize that, they are electrical after all. Its not like I put them on the plumbing permit. ???
I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,335
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2012, 11:49:23 PM »
Some people aren't competent to own guns. Should they need permits to do so? Some people aren't competent to cook in a sanitary way. Should everyone need to get permits and pass health inspections like a restaurant?

Straw man argument alert.

The Bill of Rights does not include any provision guaranteeing to the People the right to perform their own home alterations without government oversight.

Take your argument to the limit: How likely would you be to choose a doctor who isn't licensed by your state? Or maybe who never went to medical school or even took high school biology?

How happy would you be driving across a major bridge if the person who designed it wasn't trained and licensed as an engineer?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 11:55:29 PM by Hawkmoon »
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2012, 07:31:15 AM »
Quote
What I'm amazed at in Ambulance Driver's case is the amount of the permit fee. $1,000 as the FEE for a permit to rewire is insane. Under our permit fee schedule, a $1,000 fee will get you the permit to build a house costing $85,000. What's a rewire job worth, maybe $5,000? Our fee would be 73 bucks.

When I finished my basement I downloaded the village's fee/permit worksheet and filled it out.
The total cost for permits would have been around $560, plus I would have needed to submit a detailed schematic of the changes I intended to make along with a detailed wiring diagram.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,689
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2012, 08:31:42 AM »
When I was growing up in Chicago, they really didn't want people working on their own homes - they wanted you to hire union electricians, union plumbers, union plasterers, etc., and get permits for EVERYTHING, even the simple change-out of a lighting fixture. (If you did the work yourself, it was supposed to be "under the supervision" of a union goon.)

Quite simply, if work was being done inside . . . these rules and permit requirements were simply ignored. My Dad and I did quite a bit of interior work in our home, and I assure you, we did not do shoddy work.

An aunt and uncle built their own home in what was at the time a pretty rural suburb (not subject to Chicago-type permits and restrictions) and they had a few run-ins with union types who wanted them to hire union workers rather than do the work themselves. I understand my uncle was pretty . . . blunt . . . in his response.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2012, 08:37:14 AM »
Straw man argument alert.

The Bill of Rights does not include any provision guaranteeing to the People the right to perform their own home alterations without government oversight.

Take your argument to the limit: How likely would you be to choose a doctor who isn't licensed by your state? Or maybe who never went to medical school or even took high school biology?

How happy would you be driving across a major bridge if the person who designed it wasn't trained and licensed as an engineer?

just because someone holds a piece of paper doesn't mean i will trust my life to them .   if any of the above were recognized for doing good work, i wouldn't care who licensed them (or didn't).  (i also recognize that the people holding the papers are more likely to do a decent job)

i have always felt that the inspection process is more to protect the future homeowner than the current one.  (natural selection is a fine thing)

i also agree the fee is excessive. around here it would be a $50 permit, and a $100 inspection.



« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 08:49:49 AM by geronimotwo »
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2012, 09:16:24 AM »
When I lived in Utah and finished out our basement, it was like a $40 permit.  No biggie. But it took 3 trips of being given the run around on the forms I needed.  They were nice, just incompetent.  On the third trip one of the inspectors was in there and he was like wait wait wait....no he doesn't need this and that.  Private subcontracting and DIY only needed like one *expletive deleted* form and he even said to me "you can throw your dimensions and information on a bar napkin for all I care", and then wrote down a list of common failures and some tips on how to do a few things.
But the office itself was a cluster *expletive deleted*.

PS
I am against permitting.  Just sharing my experience with it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:41:12 AM by Jamisjockey »
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2012, 09:26:23 AM »
my town used to be sensible.  now they wanna be fairfax.  its a revenue stream  multiple streams
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2012, 09:43:35 AM »
Quote
its a revenue stream  multiple streams

We have a winner!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2012, 09:47:37 AM »
Straw man argument alert.

The Bill of Rights does not include any provision guaranteeing to the People the right to perform their own home alterations without government oversight.

It does not include any provision guaranteein to the People the right to choose their own spouses.

Let us now ban interracial marriage forthwith.

Quote
Take your argument to the limit: How likely would you be to choose a doctor who isn't licensed by your state? Or maybe who never went to medical school or even took high school biology?
How happy would you be driving across a major bridge if the person who designed it wasn't trained and licensed as an engineer?

Bridges are typically built with taxpayer money.

They are not a relevant comparison. Clearly the government has the power of choosing who it pays money to.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2012, 11:23:51 AM »
Quote
How likely would you be to choose a doctor who isn't licensed by your state?

Totally non-relevant comparison.

More relevant would be the state requiring a doctor visit to get a bandaid or an aspirin  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,534
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2012, 11:28:34 AM »
 ???

""I was just following orders" is never an acceptable excuse. Depriving people of their rights (and "It's my property I can do what I want with it" is a pretty basic right) is not ok, even when the State passes a law requiring it."


Holy crap, over the top much?

Quick, everyone rally to George Washington Balog! He will lead us to freedom!

*expletive deleted* drama queens...




"i have always felt that the inspection process is more to protect the future homeowner than the current one."

There ya go.

It's also to offer at least some modicum of protection to your neighbors if you live in a multiplex condo or townhouse.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

InfidelSerf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 884
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2012, 12:15:54 PM »
My guess is the 1K estimate is high.  You might want to make a call and get a more realistic estimation of the permit fee.
Every time I've looked up permit fees I always get discouraged by what they have on the website.

As far as us owning our property.  There is no such thing.
Sure pay off your mortgage and you "own it"  Then try seeing what happens to your property if you don't pay the property tax.  
None of us truly own our property. It's being rented/leased from the state/county
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 12:50:58 PM by InfidelSerf »
The hour is fast approaching,on which the Honor&Success of this army,and the safety of our bleeding Country depend.Remember~Soldiers,that you are Freemen,fighting for the blessings of Liberty-that slavery will be your portion,and that of your posterity,if you do not acquit yourselves like men.GW8/76

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2012, 12:37:18 PM »
Quote
Sure pay off your mortgage and you "own it"  Then try seeing what happens to your property if you don't pay the property tax.   
Worse- try not paying a HOA fee.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2012, 01:18:06 PM »
Worse- try not paying a HOA fee.

Many states have taken away the HOA power of foreclosure.
And bitch bitch bitch about it, we've covered this a billion times. 
YOU VOLUNTARILY MOVE INTO AN HOA NEIGHBORHOOD.  IT IS A FREEMARKET DECISION BETWEEN THE PURCHASER AND THE DEVELOPER. 
Optional optional optional.  You do not have to buy a house in a *expletive deleted*ing HOA.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head to make that decision.
Anyone who can't see that is an idiot.
 :facepalm:
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2012, 01:21:04 PM »
Bwahahahah!
Just thought I'd troll. :rofl:
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2012, 01:22:47 PM »
AD: so in your mind "felons can't own guns" and "anyone that owns a house has to beg for permission to work on it" are equivalent? Really?

Mike: thanks for the helpful and polite commentary. Have fun groveling for permission to do what you want with your own property, always nice to see someone who really needs the government to hold their little hands and protect them from themselves.

Hawkmoon: how about you address my argument? Can the State make you ask for permission before working on your car? Should you have to ask permission and pay a fee and have the setup inspected before you can reload?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

zxcvbob

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,267
Re: Holy [censored]!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2012, 01:30:21 PM »
Go off grid.

Shut off your electric and live like a 15th century French peasant.

Don't have to go that far.  Just get a meter on a utility pole with a single breaker and a NEMA 6-50 outdoor receptacle.  That's the only thing that needs a permit/inspection.  You run your entire house off a cord and plug, and it's out of their scope (the house is just a temporary appliance, not unlike a toaster)

Maybe 2 receptacles; one for the house and one for the garage/workshop/barn/whatever outbuilding.
"It's good, though..."