Author Topic: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses  (Read 8663 times)

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2007, 08:30:43 PM »
I see a .45 ACP Glock that finally got some meat around the base of the cartridge for once. It's not the 9mm Glock 17 Dasmi bought, and it may very well be a late-model Bar-Sto aftermarket barrel, or maybe Gaston got thwacked by the cluebird. Unfortunately, that's not always the case:

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html



Wish I'd known folks were hot for Glock 17s.  I sold mine some time ago, plus several full-capacity magazines. It bulged the brass something fierce, and scared the poop outta me.

Luckily, the Glockumcision was reversible, and I used the money to buy another 1911.   grin
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2007, 05:56:39 AM »
Quote
I see a photograph that, conveniently, puts the deeper slash under the Glock chamber in relative darkness to hide it.

Curses! My sinister plan to foist off the defective Glock on mankind has been uncovered. So I'll just quote Tamara from TFL:

They're made of papier-mache and moonbeams and are known to detonate when looked at cross-eyed.  rolleyes

 laugh

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2007, 06:05:31 AM »
Let's try to get to the bottom of this once and for all.  I've got an open mind about it, really.  Here's another photo I took:


cropped, enlarged, brightened:


Maybe Gewehr or somebody with some photo adjusting capabilities could take those photos and brighten/sharpen them to expose the Glock unsupported chamber.  Better yet, maybe somebody could (honestly) measure one relative to other pistols?

Here's another photo:

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2007, 06:16:17 AM »
I just don't like the grip angle on the things, and they're just, well...ugly.

If I was to buy any hyped gun, it'd probably be a SIG. Also because if anything goes wrong with it, I can just drive to Exeter and say "FIX!"  smiley

RadioFreeSeaLab

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,200
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2007, 06:54:46 AM »
RileyMC, it does look like there is less case support on the Glock.  I'm not worried about it, I got a 9mm.

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,104
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2007, 08:57:57 AM »

Quote
Better yet, maybe somebody could (honestly) measure one relative to other pistols?

Been done.  It's only a few hundreths of an inch, but it makes the diff.  The tradeoff is the almost legendary feeding reliability of Gaston's creation.  Life ain't perfect, I guess.  At least the KBs are almost nil now that most ammo makers have quietly added a bit of material to the case heads on their .40 and .357 Sig brass.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2007, 09:59:49 AM »
After Glock got their pee-pee smacked publically for the loose chamber fit and leaving the case unsupported to facilitate reliable feeding, they quietly retooled their barrels and feedramps to prevent further Kabooms.

Depending on when your Glock was produced, you may or may not be able to show pictures of a fully-supported chamber.  My G17 was of the older style, and I wouldn't even let folks reload my once-fired brass.  I crushed it with my Leatherman tool before putting it in the brass bin. 
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,491
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2007, 11:44:44 AM »
The case head support on the early Glock .40s is no myth. Glock's VP for sales and marketing confirmed that to a number of us during a meet and greet at American Rifleman's offices in late 1993 or early 1994.

I personally witnessed, or saw the immediate aftermath, of at least 7 .40 Glock kabooms in the early to mid 1990s.

The Glock had a larger than normal unsupported area around the case head on the .40 caliber guns, and combined with the manufacturing and loading specifications of the cartridge, a reloaded cartridge was FAR more prone to suffer a kaboom in a Glock, especially if the shooter pushed the upper end of the loading data with slower burning powders.

In the years since then, I have seen but one Glock kaboom, about 3 years ago, and it was with an older, unmodified gun with a serial number that would have put production in the early 1990s.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2007, 03:38:50 PM »
So, the 'unsupported chamber' hasn't been a problem since 1993, yet the hysteria continues.  OK.  rolleyes

RadioFreeSeaLab

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,200
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2007, 03:41:42 PM »
Does that surprise you in the least?  We're talking about internet rumors here, you know how they are.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,456
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2007, 05:39:27 PM »
So, the 'unsupported chamber' hasn't been a problem since 1993, yet the hysteria continues.  OK.  rolleyes


Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

jeepmor

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2007, 06:16:13 PM »
On the unsupported chamber note, anyone know where the bad turns to good in regards to serial numbers?  If I ever get a Glock, I'll have to dig this info up first or buy new.

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office.

"Oh, so now you're saying they don't have a right to whine about their First Amendment rights?  Fascist."  -fistul

Euclidean

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2007, 06:32:59 PM »
I'm a big fan of my second gen G19.  I love it.  But I only shoot new factory ammo through it.

never_retreat

  • Head Muckety Muck
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,158
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2007, 07:21:33 PM »
Poor bastard. You really should not listen to people around here. Hurry up and trade it in before it looses any more value and buy an HK. The original combat tupperware.
I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2007, 07:36:18 PM »
Quote
Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem.

Well, if it's 14 years old and hasn't kb'd yet..............I'd say it's not a 'problem'.  cool

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,456
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2007, 07:45:13 PM »
OK, Riley, but Mike said he saw that exact problem three years ago.  As he pointed out, it is a problem that occurs more often with reloaded brass, especially with loads that are hotter than normal (but still within tolerances appropriate for that cartridge).  Some guns go for years without being fired.  Some are only fired with factory ammo.  But if they are sold to someone who fires them a lot, and reloads...

You're probably right that the "hysteria" may be overblown.  But it is good that the word is still getting out about the old Glocks. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2007, 08:02:41 PM »
G21, owned since the early 1990s.  Used as a duty sidearm, attended LFI, put tens of thousands of rounds through it..."no issues."

Sent it back to Glock a year ago for refurb, just because.

I've had no issues: but I only carried +P+ for duty, lots of .230 grain hardball (training), otherwise.
Zeke

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2007, 02:41:11 PM »
How many times does Glock have to say...

No. Reloads.

Huh?

I'll risk a ka-boom with my G17 against a jam at the wrong time with something else.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

El Tejon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,641
    • http://www.kirkfreemanlaw.com
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2007, 06:24:49 AM »
Just last year Indiana State Po-po rejected the .40 S&W because of kabooms on the testing range.  ISP now totes Glock 17s, a very fine utilitarian weapon.

Funny, I sold guns in the late 80s, early 90s, when the G22s came out we had complaints of kabooms and now in 2006 we have complaints of kabooms with the Glock for-tay.

More things change, more they stay the same.

Glock 17 is a wonderful weapon.  I do not understand the obession to fiddle with the design, but then I'm not a gun nut, I'm just a shooter. smiley
I do not smoke pot, wear Wookie suits, live in my mom's basement, collect unemployment checks or eat Cheetoes, therefore I am not a Ron Paul voter.

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2007, 06:41:39 AM »
 The Gospel According To John (Moses Browning)
 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good.  And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh.  For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2 And shouldst thou muck with it  and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911.  The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase.  For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights , which are an abomination unto the Lord.  For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim.  And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both * and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger * ing pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken.  Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men.  And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil spirits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.

 laugh

Brad Johnson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,104
  • Witty, charming, handsome, and completely insane.
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2007, 07:49:21 AM »
I needed a good laugh.  Thanks.  laugh

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2007, 07:54:19 AM »
I often wonder whatever happened to my early-model G17, and if it kaboomed yet. I consider it an accident waiting to happen.

There's a metric assload of those things out there that were sold over the years before the cluebird smacked Glock, and they don't need reloads to kaboom.  See Dean Speir's site.   sad
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,491
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2007, 08:34:52 AM »
Quote
Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem.

Well, if it's 14 years old and hasn't kb'd yet..............I'd say it's not a 'problem'.  cool


I'd say that that assumption is 100% WRONG.

If someone owns an older Glock .40 and has shot nothing but factory ammo through it, they very likely have never experienced a kaboom even though there are reports of a few KBs with factory new ammo.

If, however, due to the recent spike in ammo prices they decide to start saving their cases and get into reloading, the probability of their having a kaboom has just increased dramatically.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2007, 09:37:30 AM »
Quote
If someone owns an older Glock .40 and has shot nothing but factory ammo through it, they very likely have never experienced a kaboom even though there are reports of a few KBs with factory new ammo.

If, however, due to the recent spike in ammo prices they decide to start saving their cases and get into reloading, the probability of their having a kaboom has just increased dramatically.

So the 'problem' is only with the .40 Short & Weak?  And only before 1993?  So how did the hysteria extend to [All] Glocks kb; they are virtual hand grenades which will fire out of battery, etc., et yada....

Glock advises using only factory ammo; no reloads.  And jacketed bullets only; the polygonal rifling apparently leads up quickly, increasing pressure.  So if someone feeds their old Glock .40 reloads when everybody knows it's a no-no, I'd say you have an operator/ammo failure, not a firearm failure. 

It's basic and axiomatic- you must use the correct ammunition in your firearm.

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: Well, I'm now part of the unwashed masses
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2007, 08:39:02 PM »
Give Riley an inch...

No, the 9mm Glocks kaboomed, too.  My G17 was scary in how badly it bulged the brass. See Dean Speir's website for photos of similar loose chambers.

My take on Glock is that in their efforts to assure slick feeding, they cut corners so badly, and delivered a product with such piss-poor tolerances that it cannot handle the handloaded brass that any other handgun would eat with nary a hiccup. So they cover their posteriors with a blanket no-handloads caveat.  Nice.

Now, I'm speaking from anecdotal experience here, about 30 handguns in Casa de' G-98, with only about 100K handloaded rounds through them all, thanks to my IPSC/USPSA and IHMSA days.  My G17 was the only gun that really scared me with the bulging of the fired brass, be it new factory ammo or my handloads.  My .357 Magnum Desert Eagle treats its brass much better, and it runs considerably higher pressures than a 9mm ever would.

 
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"