Sharpening a straight razor...

[TMM]

ok, now before y'all tell me to make a search, i already did.
i'm looking into getting a straight razor to shave [i don't quite shave yet, so i think it'd be good to start early]. i can figure out well enough what kind of razor to get, but i'm stuck on the sharpening.

what grit stones should i use when i need to sharpen? should an extra-fine Arkansas [~900 grit] be suitable for touchups?
how about strops? i could buy one, but i'd rather use leather i have and put the paste on it[on the smooth side, i assume?]. should the leather be glued to a board or be free? what kind of stropping paste should i use, etc...
i'd like to keep it inexpensive, since i really don't want to sink too much money into it. [although i could always use sharpening stuff, that's not too much of a loss]

sound off, and thanks!
~tmm

[1982fxr]

TMM:

I've been shaving with a straight for about 3 yrs.  The best place to get a wealth of info is:  www.straightrazorplace.com.  I've bought all of my shaving supplies from:  www.classicshaving.com.  Everything they sell works great.  A word of warning: it ain't cheap!  A cheap razor from ebay will be impossible to sharpen for a new user -- especially stay away from the Pakistani stuff.

To answer your questions specifically:  The most generally agreed-upon grit is 4000 for rough honing and 8000 grit for fine polishing.  This can be found in a Norton 4000/8000 combination stone as sold on Classicshaving.  Cost ~$80 (I think).  The extra-fine Arkansas stones are not nearly fine enough for a straight razor.

Strops:  I use a German-made strop from Dovo; any size on Classicshaving will work and won't need breaking in.  The other strops (Illinois) require breaking in before use (or so I've read).  I don't have any personal experience with them.  You can also glue some leather to a wooden paddle to make a flat strop - I have a couple that I made from an old leather chair.  They work fine too but you have to make sure the wood base is flat and the glue goes on flat too -- any bumps will cause irregularities to the leather surface and affect your stropping.

Paste is not necessary if you use the Norton 4K/8K hone for basic edge preparation.  Just use the bare leather for final stropping.  Again, the two websites I listed above have excellent tips.  Note that you hone in one direction (cutting "into" the blade) and strop "backwards" with the spine of the blade leading and flipping the blade between strokes.  Honing and stropping are distinct skills and you will need to develop them to sharpen the blade properly.  Honing will be needed "infrequently" (maybe as often as every 10-20 shaves or maybe more like 40-50 shaves, depending on a whole bunch of things).  Stropping is done between each shave and maybe in the middle of a shave depending on the blade condition.  One way to go cheap if you make your own strops is to make 3: one for basic edge prep with medium paste, one with fine paste for polishing/final honing, and one to leave bare for between shave stropping.  If you use strops with paste for honing then all the strokes are performed in the same direction (blade spine leading, edge trailing) and this is probably easier to learn (I use the Norton stone).  You won't need the Norton stones if you use pasted strops.

In terms of degree of difficulty: learning to hone the blade edge is the most difficult.  Shaving is next, and stropping is the easiest skill to learn.  It took me about 6 hours (over 4 days practice) to get a semi-passable shave for the first time.  After a month, I could do it in 45 minutes and had stopped shaking.  After 3 years, it still takes a solid 20 minutes, which is about 15 minutes longer than I can do it with the "safety" disposable razors.

Yes, you will cut yourself; but my experience is that the cuts heal quicker, hurt less, and are less noticeable than cuts with the multi-blade disposables.  My worst cuts ever came from disposables.

Once you get your shaving process nailed, your shaves will be tremendous -- a face as smooth as glass with no irritation and no cuts.  It's a neat skill and I've enjoyed it.  Hope you stick with it!

[nico]

Don't forget a badger brush and good shaving cream.  Classic Shaving is a good place to buy that too. I like the Taylor of Old Bond Street Avocado a lot, and that brand is about the best bargain I've found. 

I would suggest trying a double edged safety razor before trying a straight razor.  They're cheaper, the learning curve isn't quite as steep and it's still miles ahead of any "modern" razor.  I have a Merkur Futur razor (came with this set) that I like a lot, but you can get a perfectly good model for <$30, which is much less than a good straight razor.

www.shavemyface.com is a good source of info on everything but straight razors, although there is something a little odd about people who think of shaving as a hobby

[S. Williamson]

Used the cheapo Wal-Mart Williams Shaving Soap (now relegated to the shower) and am trying out Col. Conk's Bay Rum soap.  Like the "new" stuff a lot better.

Need to get a better brush, though... 

i can figure out well enough what kind of razor to get...

I can't.  Anyone care to help? 

Edit: That said, I'm having a blast with classicshaving.com. 

Edit 2: Will perusing local antique shops do me any good?

[nico]

www.badgerandblade.com has a lot of reviews that seem pretty good.  From skimming them, it seems like a lot of straight razors on the market now (especially the damascus blades) aren't all that great.  I know there are a few custom makers that are thought highly of.  You should be able to find them on badger and blade

[AJ Dual]

The best place to get a wealth of info is:  www.straightrazorplace.com. 

I just have to say thanks.

I have nothing to add about shaving, with a straight-razor or otherwise, but I will never feel bad about posting and browsing at www.candlepowerforums.com.

I'm going to show that forum to Mrs. Dual so she gets off my back about the "flashlight nerds"...

[1982fxr]

i can figure out well enough what kind of razor to get...

I can't.  Anyone care to help? 

Edit: That said, I'm having a blast with classicshaving.com. 

Edit 2: Will perusing local antique shops do me any good?

I've used Thiers-Issard razors bought new from Classicshaving with great success and highly recommend them.  I did it the hard way and bought them without using the sharpening service from Classicshaving and just learned on my own.  It takes longer that way because I didn't know if any shaving difficulties I was having were due to my poor (initial) technique or due to an incorrectly sharpened blade.

The easiest way to get a good blade to start with would be to buy a new one from Classicshaving and also purchase their sharpening service on that new blade.  Thiers-Issard advertises their blades as 'shave ready' but the three I've bought were not ready without a small amount of honing and stropping.  The Dovo blades are highly regarded as well and cost about the same as the TI blades.  I think as long as you stick to one of those two then pick whatever blade works for your budget you'll get a good blade.  Don't stress over the 5/8 size vs 6/8 or 7/8; when you're starting out it won't matter much because you'll be more concerned with shaving technique, just get whatever appeals from TI or Dovo (assuming you want new).

There are a number of other good blade manufacturers (and some "new old-stock" as well) that are great too.  You can check out the recommended sources from Straightrazorplace and they'll be good too.  Some members on Straightrazorplace will sell used blades that are "shave ready" and I've heard good things about those but never actually bought one.  Those blades will be a bit cheaper than Classicshaving, maybe $40 - $60.

Regarding antique shops (and ebay): Pulling numbers out of the air, I'd guess 90% of those blades will be unuseable, either due to oversharpening or nicks in the edge, or warping, or poor heat treatment of the steel, etc.  There are also a lot of Pakistani copies of real blades and they uniformly use cheap steel with poor heat treatment.  If they take an edge at all it won't stay sharp long enough to complete even one shaving stroke.  I went through a couple of those and it was a waste of time and effort.  Once you have sharpened a few on your own you can pick out used ones with more confidence (although I've still been burned by poor heat treatment a couple of times and that won't show up on a visual inspection...).

The blade edge is amazingly fragile, and you'll become very protective of it once you get one shaving well.  You have to start with a good manufacturer, that has been properly heat treated, honed correctly, and then stropped correctly.  Lots of things have to be in balance and work together to get it to shave well.  That's the appeal of the hobby!

If all of that is good, then the blade will glide over your face with no pulling at all and leave behind a freshly mowed patch that is glassy smooth.  The critical test is shaving against the grain -- if the blade is smooth shaving against the grain then you're really got it sharp!  But it's very frustrating to learn to sharpen a blade at the same time that you're learning to shave too; I almost quit several times.

I think it would be more rewarding to get a properly honed/sharpened blade from one of the "honemeisters" on Straightrazorplace and use that for initial shaving practice.  Then buy a second used one or new one for your own sharpening practice and compare it to the shaving "feel" of your first one.  That way you have something to compare your sharpening progress against.

Have fun and go slow! 

[TMM]

thanks for the replies!
i don't know what i'll do for the 4k/8k grit stone, but i'm planning on getting pastes for the strops that i will make. speaking of strops, is a linen strop necessary, or is it the same as a plain leather?

i have more questions, but i'll head over the straightrazorplace for that.

thanks guys,
~tmm

[1982fxr]

thanks for the replies!
i don't know what i'll do for the 4k/8k grit stone, but i'm planning on getting pastes for the strops that i will make. speaking of strops, is a linen strop necessary, or is it the same as a plain leather?

I've tried stropping both with and without using the linen side of the strop and haven't found that it makes much difference.  If the blade needs a touch-up I just go to the 8K side of the Norton then strop on the leather side.  In the future I probably won't spend any extra money on a strop that has a linen side.

If you get the medium and fine pastes then you won't need the Norton stone at all so that will save you some money.  Remember that once you use paste on a strop, then that strop becomes dedicated to that paste so you'll need multiple strops to cover the different stropping needs.


Good luck!

[mtnbkr]

I'm going to show that forum to Mrs. Dual so she gets off my back about the "flashlight nerds"...

OT, but just for you AJ: http://www.instructables.com/id/EWM4YR2F4WY1LQ2/

Try not to hurt anyone.

Chris

[TMM]

If you get the medium and fine pastes then you won't need the Norton stone at all so that will save you some money.  Remember that once you use paste on a strop, then that strop becomes dedicated to that paste so you'll need multiple strops to cover the different stropping needs.


Good luck!

good thought. but, don't the strop pastes start around 10-12K? or perhaps something like this would work well?:
http://www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/522944/196078.htm
i don't know how microns convert to grits, so...

my only other issue/worry is that i might get a razor with a crappy edge needing real stone work, and the finest i have is about 600 grit...

~tmm

[Mabs2]

I've always like the idea of straight shaving because I'm an old fashioned person and I always look for ways to have a closer and less painful shave, but the cheapest razor I've found so far is $68.  Insane.  I don't care what it's made out of, how can this tiny piece of sharp metal be worth $70?
And don't get me started on the $900 ones...  I understand, hey, they're well made and that's why they're $70...but $900???

[nico]

I'm no expert, but I'd bet the necessary sharpness and low production numbers are the reason behind the price.  It takes good steel to get a blade that's literally razor-sharp and maintains an edge.

From what I've seen, when you get over $200, they seem to be more for decoration than for shaving every day.  The reviews of the Zowada Damascus blades that classic shaving sells seem to confirm that.  They sure are beautiful though:

That one is $950

[1982fxr]

I'll agree with Nico; all of the blades sold at Classicshaving will work fine and you really just make a selection based on what you want.  The $70 Thiers-Issard or Dovo razor will shave just as well as the $200 high end versions and the $900 damascus steel ones won't shave any better than the $70 one.  Really, the folks who buy the high-end razors are just having fun with the hobby -- if you just want a good shave the cheaper ($70 -$100) will serve just fine.

But stay away from anything on Ebay that claims to be new and is selling for less than $20 -- guaranteed frustration.

The pastes on Classicshaving that are 9 micron would be good for basic edge profiling, and the 1 and .5 micron good for finishing.  They also have Dovo paste kits that have all the different paste grits needed to properly hone and maintain an edge.  I've never used them (just haven't gotten 'round to it yet but I will someday).  Lots of folks use them and never bother with the Norton stone.

[brer]

I have been shaving with a straight razor for about 4 years.

I bought a used seven day set off of Ebay starting out.  The thing about buying off of ebay is to find someone who does sell quality razors, not cheap paki knockoffs.  I have since replaced a few blades that my girlfreinds kid decided to use for wittling, but overall I have had no major problems with ebay.

I grind optics as a hobby and have access to a lot of fine polishes and grits.  To sharpen a razor I use a fine arkansas stone, always trailing the edge, using the thick part of the razor to maintain the angle.

To hone the razor, I use a strop, again trailing the edge and using the thick part of the razor to maintain the angle.  To dress the strop I generally use either optical rouge or optical grade cerium oxide and a fine oil.

Generally you only have to sharpen the razor once for every seven times you hone it.  You only need to hone it with a strop when it gets to dull to shave comfortably.  But then again if you can get away just honing it with a fine polish without having to resort to using a stone, by all means do it.  Using a stone on my razors scares me a bit because of how delicate the edge on one of them is

[Snowdog]

Though I have several straight razors, I typically only use two (an Eskilstuna and Boker King Kutter).  I was taught in the beginning that allowing a straight razor to "rest" 48 hours between uses will extent the time between honing.  I don't know if this is actually true, but I've don't have to hone but once every month (and usually a few strokes on a strip of smooth leather with a little boron carbide is all it takes to bring back a keen edge).

I’m a big fan of pastes, but I do use a "Surgical Black" Arkansas stone I purchased from Hand American a couple years ago.  If a razor starts to pull and doesn’t respond well to the pastes and strop, I’ll put on a new edge with the Arkansas stone (working up a slurry with a little soapy water) and hone it keen with first a boron carbide paste and then to a slightly smaller grit paste (1 micron aluminum oxide).  After that, a good stropping will keep my chosen two razors keen for quite some time.