7 years on, Sept. 11 is so far and yet so close

[wmenorr67]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/157606/page/1

Posting the link because of the length.  But gives you pause considering the upcoming election and the direction the country will go in based on our decision.  Not only in the White House but in the House and Senate also.

[MicroBalrog]

And yet there is an unmistakable distance now. No one speaks of the "new normal" anymore. All of those things are just normal.

Isn't the post-9/11 mentality wonderful?

[Perd Hapley]

I was just thinking yesterday how frightening it is that we say "since 9-11," rather than "since the war started."  Not that it really started on that day, but that would be the obvious way to refer to that day. 

[MicroBalrog]

I hate the whole idea that the world somehow 'changed' after 9/11, but you know this.

[mtnbkr]

I think about 9/11 more often than I like.  I was on my way to work when it happened.  I had been married all of two weeks at the time.  I heard about the two WTC hits on the way in and learned about the Pentagon after getting to my office.  There were also rumors of other govt sites getting hit by car bombs and such.  We're a govt project, but outside of DC.  One of my coworkers, who's husband worked at the Pentagon, left in tears proclaiming her kids weren't going to become orphans.  We were scrambling to do last minute emergency backups which the IT Security guy was going to take offsite in case our location was hit.  We had many sites in the two towers and saw the IT related effects of the towers being destroyed (sites going dark, etc).  I managed to get through to my wife before the phone system was overwhelmed to let her know I was ok and heading home after we completed our last minute preparations.  By the time I got home, the phones were swamped and we couldn't call out again for 6-7 hours.  That entire time, my family, who only knew that I did govt IT consulting, was wondering if I was at an affected site (wasn't into radio at the time or I might have gotten a message through one of the traffic nets, nor did any of us have txt capable cellphones).


Looks pretty changed to me.

We know the obvious changes, but how about a couple subtle ones: 

Companies and govt take COOP/DR seriously now. 
Many civilians actually have disaster plans in place. 

Chris

[MicroBalrog]

Look, I don't seek to deny the tragedy and scale of 9/11.

But there have always been bad people looking to harm good people.

It was always a good idea to have COOP plans, to have bug-out-bags, to own a rifle and a case of ammo. ALWAYS.

The only thing that happened at 9/11 is that the bad guys got really, really, really, unbelievably lucky.

What has not happened is that we do not have a devastating world-wide emergency that justifies peeking in people's private correspondence, creating giant uber-bureaucracies or making 'foreign policy' the foremost concern.

[mtnbkr]

Did I say anything contrary to that?

What I was trying to say is that the evil was made glaringly obvious to a lot of people. 

It was always a good idea to have COOP plans and such, but few did.  We didn't fully develop our COOP capability until 9/11 slapped us in the face.  We had been pushing it for years, but only after 9/11 did the govt finally realize the necessity (at least on the civilian side).

Chris

[Laurent du Var]

I was in Milano, Italy with a group of 40 mostly retired American travellers
on a sightseeing tour to  the Scala and the Duoma on September 11th.

I used to own an incoming  travel agency working mostly with customers coming from the US to Europe. At the end of  2001  I received my gun owner permit having left the army ten years before and in 2003 I declared bankrupcy
and worked as an underpayed employee ever since. I'm just now starting to see light at the end of the tunnel professionnally speaking, and have to acknowledge that the uberangst of terrorism has restricted our travel habits to be bothersome at the least. The absolute freedom and privilege of the cultivated always was to travel, and thank God there is the internet to communicate with other cultures otherwise  the terrorists and the following reactions to them would have brought us into an iron curtain stage of highly restricted information exchange. 

I hate cultures creating potential breeding ground  for terrorists and feel strong about our reactions to them. I really do miss the people standing up saying we like our degenerated western lifestyle including useless voyages.

Quote from Micro :

" The only thing that happened at 9/11 is that the bad guys got really, really, really, unbelievably lucky. "

No they didn't, they just were lucky enough and well educated and determined
to do what they did. If you're misguided  palestinian you can trust your
fellow would be terrorist to provide you with a dynamite belt, and if you're a misguided intelectual studying in Germany you get to work on bigger projects, that's all.




     

   

[Tallpine]

The 9-11 terrorists weren't lucky, they just exploited our stupid "comply and everything will be okay" policy 

[grislyatoms]

I had just dropped kiddo off at her Mom's and was driving in to work. I remember thinking at the time "Geez, EVERYONE is yapping on their cell phones..."

Turned the radio on a few minutes later and heard about the first tower. Then, heard about the second tower, and thought "What are the odds that...oh *expletive deleted*it."

[De Selby]

Look, I don't seek to deny the tragedy and scale of 9/11.

But there have always been bad people looking to harm good people.

It was always a good idea to have COOP plans, to have bug-out-bags, to own a rifle and a case of ammo. ALWAYS.

The only thing that happened at 9/11 is that the bad guys got really, really, really, unbelievably lucky.

What has not happened is that we do not have a devastating world-wide emergency that justifies peeking in people's private correspondence, creating giant uber-bureaucracies or making 'foreign policy' the foremost concern.

The attitude seems to be "We'll spare no sacrifice of liberty in our quest for freedom!" in these ventures.

The post 9/11 world has been a disaster for freedom from Government intrusion and expansive use of government force.  It has literally gotten so bad now that there are people who argue, with a straight face, that the government should be able to imprison and torture people without trial or review of any kind because "they might have vital life saving information." 

I remember a comment on The Firingline back then by Marko Kloos than ran roughly like this- "They hate our freedom, so we're bringing peace by eliminating our freedoms for them"

[Regolith]

It's bad, yes, but not quite so bad as the last time a foreign entity killed 3000 people on our soil.  *coughJapaneseInternmentCampscough*.

I don't like some of the abuses perpetrated by the government, but when compared to those committed during WWII and I, it's kind of hard to get too excited about.  Those abuses ended, as will these, so long as people keep working at it.

Ironically, Bush will probably be viewed negatively by future historians due to these abuses, where as most still look favorably on FDR.

[De Selby]

It's bad, yes, but not quite so bad as the last time a foreign entity killed 3000 people on our soil.  *coughJapaneseInternmentCampscough*.

I don't like some of the abuses perpetrated by the government, but when compared to those committed during WWII and I, it's kind of hard to get too excited about.  Those abuses ended, as will these, so long as people keep working at it.

That someone else did worse is not a defense to any wrong.   The Nazis did worse than intern; that doesn't make racist internment camps alright.  The Russians did worse than torture prisoners-that doesn't make torture alright.

There is one reason for greater concern with the torture and limitless power to imprison these days: there's no signing ceremony or other formal end to a "war on terror" like there is in a war between two countries.  The war on terror will only stop justifying extreme violations of rights when...the government decides it's over.

Do you really trust any government to decide on its own that it doesn't need expansive, unchecked police powers?

[Regolith]

It's bad, yes, but not quite so bad as the last time a foreign entity killed 3000 people on our soil.  *coughJapaneseInternmentCampscough*.

I don't like some of the abuses perpetrated by the government, but when compared to those committed during WWII and I, it's kind of hard to get too excited about.  Those abuses ended, as will these, so long as people keep working at it.

That someone else did worse is not a defense to any wrong.   The Nazis did worse than intern; that doesn't make racist internment camps alright.  The Russians did worse than torture prisoners-that doesn't make torture alright.

There is one reason for greater concern with the torture and limitless power to imprison these days: there's no signing ceremony or other formal end to a "war on terror" like there is in a war between two countries.  The war on terror will only stop justifying extreme violations of rights when...the government decides it's over.

Do you really trust any government to decide on its own that it doesn't need expansive, unchecked police powers?

Those abuses ended, as will these, so long as people keep working at it.

Next time, maybe, just maybe, try reading my post a little bit harder.  It prevents embarrassment. 

[De Selby]

Next time, maybe, just maybe, try reading my post a little bit harder.  It prevents embarrassment. 

If you read mine, you'll see that it is a challenge to your lax attitude concerning the abuse.

[RevDisk]

Pennsylvania quietly passed an anti-smoking ban on June 11th that gave 90 days warning until a long list of bans took place.  I cannot define my rage at intentionally passing massive restrictions of citizen's liberties to coincide with September 11th.  Violating the will of the people, pissing on property rights, smashing business revenues during a recession, and handing out exemptions to cronies (like our fledgling casino industry and nursing homes) to can pony up the cash to lobby.

On a second glance, it's appropriate.  Kill civil liberties under the guise of patriotism, because otherwise the citizenry would not allow it. 

"This is for your own good, because we know how to run your life better than you do." is the supreme evil.  I'd respect the politicians more if they were honest in expressing how much they hate us and want to control our lives and fortunes.

[Perd Hapley]

One thing that changed after 9/11 is that Bush and the GWOT are now blamed for the on-going loss of liberty.  Before that, it was Clinton.  Before that, it was someone else. 

[wmenorr67]

One thing that changed after 9/11 is that Bush and the GWOT are now blamed for the on-going loss of liberty.  Before that, it was Clinton.  Before that, it was someone else. 

But how many Waco's have we seen during Bush's reign?

[MicroBalrog]

One thing that changed after 9/11 is that Bush and the GWOT are now blamed for the on-going loss of liberty.  Before that, it was Clinton.  Before that, it was someone else. 

But how many Waco's have we seen during Bush's reign?

Planning for Waco began before Clinton came into office.

[roo_ster]

One thing that changed after 9/11 is that Bush and the GWOT are now blamed for the on-going loss of liberty.  Before that, it was Clinton.  Before that, it was someone else. 

But how many Waco's have we seen during Bush's reign?

Planning for Waco began before Clinton came into office.

May be true, but Reno & Clinton get the credit for turning lots of live kids into dead, burned up kids.

[MicroBalrog]

One thing that changed after 9/11 is that Bush and the GWOT are now blamed for the on-going loss of liberty.  Before that, it was Clinton.  Before that, it was someone else. 

But how many Waco's have we seen during Bush's reign?

Planning for Waco began before Clinton came into office.

May be true, but Reno & Clinton get the credit for turning lots of live kids into dead, burned up kids.

Quite, but the point is, I think it's possible for such a thing to happen under any president until the underlying cause - the bloated welfare/police-state - is rectified.