107 year old man dies in shootout with police

[MillCreek]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/09/08/220306510/man-107-dies-in-shootout-with-police?ft=1&f=1001

I wonder if he decided to go out in a blaze of glory or what?

[Sergeant Bob]

It seems like they could have had some other option other than shooting the old geezer, however, a man with a gun is a man with a gun.

[just Warren]

A 107 year old trigger finger is just as dangerous as a twenty year old trigger finger.

[Perd Hapley]

If he's got no hostages, can't they just keep a few officers on the scene, and wait until he gets hungry and wants to come out?

[HankB]

If he's got no hostages, can't they just keep a few officers on the scene, and wait until he gets hungry and wants to come out?

That would imply acceptance of someone who didn't respect their au-thor-i-tay, and worse, delay their scheduled Krispy Kreme run.

[Tallpine]

It wasn't me!   


this time

[Fly320s]

Sounds like he got what he deserved.

[BlueStarLizzard]

107 and nobody mentions the possibility of altered mental state. :/

I also am not really understanding why they didn't just let him sit there and keep an eye on things.
Cops are suposed to deescalate a situation, not escalate it.

If grandpa starts taking potshots out the windows, then you shoot him.

[Fitz]

"When officers identified themselves to the suspect he shot at them through the door but no officer was injured. Police then asked for backup," reports KATV.

Negotiations failed to bring Isadore out of the bedroom; a miniature camera inserted into the room confirmed that he had a weapon, police say.

A statement from the Pine Bluff Police Department that was posted online by KTHV 11 News describes what happened next:

"S.W.A.T. inserted gas into the room, after it was evident negotiations were unsuccessful, in hopes Isadore would surrender peacefully. When the gas was inserted into the room, Isadore fired rounds at the S.W.A.T. officers that had inserted the gas from outside a bedroom window.







Yeah, how dare they shoot someone who was firing on them


Damn JBTs

[BlueStarLizzard]

And popping gas cans into a room with an armed, unstable person is really gonna make them walk out all peaceful like?

[Fly320s]

And popping gas cans into a room with an armed, unstable person is really gonna make them walk out all peaceful like?

CS gas (tear gas) is effective at getting people to stop behaving like a-holes.

[Fitz]

And popping gas cans into a room with an armed, unstable person is really gonna make them walk out all peaceful like?

He fired at them before the gas. Read the article

[AZRedhawk44]

Strangely, I'm siding with Fitz and the JBT's on this one.

They tried de-escalating.  They tried all the tools in the TACTICS portion of SWAT, along with several non-lethal techniques to control the situation.

God made man, Sam Colt made them equal.

107 with a gun is just as dangerous as 17 with a gun.  Old man had lots of chances to find an alternate solution.

Pending further revelations that he was going to be sold to Morlocks for the stew pot or something like that, JBT's get my support on this one.  They explored all options and resorted to the one dictated by the man with a gun, shooting at them.

[Fitz]

Strangely, I'm siding with Fitz and the JBT's on this one.

They tried de-escalating.  They tried all the tools in the TACTICS portion of SWAT, along with several non-lethal techniques to control the situation.

God made man, Sam Colt made them equal.

107 with a gun is just as dangerous as 17 with a gun.  Old man had lots of chances to find an alternate solution.

Pending further revelations that he was going to be sold to Morlocks for the stew pot or something like that, JBT's get my support on this one.  They explored all options and resorted to the one dictated by the man with a gun, shooting at them.

Ayup



Hey, we don't disagree THAT often. Lol

[never_retreat]

Suicide by cop?

[BlueStarLizzard]

*sigh* I did, fitz.

I'm also saying it's not exactly a shocker that crazy grandpa is gonna start unloading when the toss gas cans in his room.

I'm pointing out that I don't trust the cops and their definition of "insuccessful negotiations"

For the record, I dislike any story when someone holds only themselves hostage, only start shooting when pressured and the cops decide to bust in anyway.
It's a no brainer that someone is gonna get shot, most likely the nutbag, and if someone had shown a little pacients and just said "alright, you old fart. You stay in there and we'll leave you alone till you either come out or kill yourself."

[Fly320s]

The cops were called for a domestic dispute issue.

When the cops arrived, old man shot at them.

Cops backed off, used negotiations and tear gas to calm things down.

Old man shot at cops some more.

Cops shot old man.

I don't see a problem here.

------------

Did cops know the shooter was and old (harmless) man?

Do old (harmless) men get a free pass or special treatment?

Did anyone tell the cops that the shooter might be mentally unstable?

Was the shooter mentally unstable?

Do mental whack jobs get special treatment when they are shooting at people?


The first half of my post are facts, according to the article.  The second half is conjecture and spitballing.  So, BSL, what would you have done?

[BlueStarLizzard]

Exactly what I said I would do.

Leave him locked in his room and sit in my squad car, playing solitare, until he decided to do something.

I don't see why one should exert themselves to save a crazy person from themselves. I don't see why busting in and playing rambo is nessasary when you could just starve them out.

I see no need to escalate the situation, when the suspect has three bad options (two of which involve no shooting whatsoever) and eventually has to choose one.

My opinion is clearly not shared by the board. It's my opinion. I don't see why the lot of you have to get your panties in a twist and pick a fight with me because you don't like my opinion.

[AZRedhawk44]

Exactly what I said I would do.

Leave him locked in his room and sit in my squad car, playing solitare, until he decided to do something.

I don't see why one should exert themselves to save a crazy person from themselves. I don't see why busting in and playing rambo is nessasary when you could just starve them out.

I see no need to escalate the situation, when the suspect has three bad options (two of which involve no shooting whatsoever) and eventually has to choose one.

My opinion is clearly not shared by the board. It's my opinion. I don't see why the lot of you have to get your panties in a twist and pick a fight with me because you don't like my opinion.

You've got an interesting tactic, except for this:

The old man was depriving others of their respective property rights/homes/livelihoods.

If there's an unrelated crazy old man, armed and holed up in your house while you're away, and you come home to a SWAT situation... do you want your property back ASAP or how long are you willing to wait for him to starve or get bored or tired?

[BlueStarLizzard]

You've got an interesting tactic, except for this:

The old man was depriving others of their respective property rights/homes/livelihoods.

If there's an unrelated crazy old man, armed and holed up in your house while you're away, and you come home to a SWAT situation... do you want your property back ASAP or how long are you willing to wait for him to starve or get bored or tired?

They never said whos house it was. A domestic dispuite makes me think it was his or he lived there.

Second, he's 107! Dehydration would probably knock him out in 24 hours (less, depending on medications)

Also, bullet holes don't do much for property value and gas canisters are notorious for starting house fires. So I guess it could come down to a question of which is more important to the owners. Do you want to wait it out, or does your insurance cover the repairs?

[Marnoot]

For the record, I dislike any story when someone holds only themselves hostage, only start shooting when pressured and the cops decide to bust in anyway.

As mentioned in the article, he started shooting when the cops used the high pressure tactic of identifying themselves. If he hadn't shot until they busted in or something I'd be more amenable to your point, but as it is I'm not feeling too sorry for the guy.

[Fitz]

*sigh* I did, fitz.

I'm also saying it's not exactly a shocker that crazy grandpa is gonna start unloading when the toss gas cans in his room.

I'm pointing out that I don't trust the cops and their definition of "insuccessful negotiations"

For the record, I dislike any story when someone holds only themselves hostage, only start shooting when pressured and the cops decide to bust in anyway.
It's a no brainer that someone is gonna get shot, most likely the nutbag, and if someone had shown a little pacients and just said "alright, you old fart. You stay in there and we'll leave you alone till you either come out or kill yourself."

He started unloading on them when they CAME to the door!

Yeah... Those damn cops with their aggressive "dialogue"

He unloaded again when they shot the gas

[AZRedhawk44]

He started unloading on them when they CAME to the door!

Yeah... Those damn cops with their aggressive "dialogue"

He unloaded again when they shot the gas

To be fair to the deceased... I would unload on anyone gassing me too. 

I'd like to know more about how it went with the negotiator.

[Fly320s]

Exactly what I said I would do.

Leave him locked in his room and sit in my squad car, playing solitare, until he decided to do something.

I don't see why one should exert themselves to save a crazy person from themselves. I don't see why busting in and playing rambo is nessasary when you could just starve them out.

I see no need to escalate the situation, when the suspect has three bad options (two of which involve no shooting whatsoever) and eventually has to choose one.

My opinion is clearly not shared by the board. It's my opinion. I don't see why the lot of you have to get your panties in a twist and pick a fight with me because you don't like my opinion.

Based on the article as written, what makes you think he was crazy?

You are saying he is crazy, but the article never mentions his mental health.

We disagree with you because we are basing our opinions on the referenced article. You are basing you assumptions on what?

[Scout26]

They couldn't wait until it was time for the early bird special at IHOP?   Or wait until nap time.  He's 107, he's not going to be awake that long.