Author Topic: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away  (Read 14438 times)

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 11:50:05 AM »
Most cameras nowadays use CMOS sensors instead of the superior CCDs.

The whole "larger sensors is better" is nothing but marketing.

Bigger sensors are not better. Smaller ones are. For many reasons. But for marketing reasons, camera manufacturers perpetuate the idea that larger sensors are better.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 12:26:33 PM »
Are you sure you're not thinking about an attribute like what actual vinyl records do to the sound they reproduce, or tube vs transister amps?  etter

Yes, quite sure.

Nick1911

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 12:34:51 PM »
Most cameras nowadays use CMOS sensors instead of the superior CCDs.

The whole "larger sensors is better" is nothing but marketing.

Bigger sensors are not better. Smaller ones are. For many reasons. But for marketing reasons, camera manufacturers perpetuate the idea that larger sensors are better.

You're argument fails to convince me, but has left me curious.  Can you explain further or provide a cite?

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2009, 01:00:31 PM »
It's complicated and I will explain later. Must go to airport now.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 01:02:25 PM »
You're argument fails to convince me, but has left me curious.  Can you explain further or provide a cite?

I provided one in the link above. 

Chris

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 01:20:40 PM »
Larger sensors tend to have better noise performance, work better in low light, work better at higher resolutions, have higher dynamic range, and can often produce sharper and more contrasty images due to better MTF.  (Caveat:  This is a gross approximation and oversimplification). 

Digital sensor sized 36x24 (i.e. large sensors) allow us to use all of the wonderful old film lenses in the way they were designed to be used, and obviate the need for goofy ultra-short lenses to get the usual wide angle perspectives.

Of course, big sensors are way, way more expensive than small ones, and they have a whole host of other problems that small sensors don't have.

I wouldn't say that bigger is necessarily better than smaller (or vice versa).  It's more that each has comparative advantages and disadvantages.  It's a matter of preferences and priorities as to which one is "best" for any given circumstance.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 02:03:35 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 01:27:25 PM »
Quote
Digital sensor sized 36x24 (i.e. large sensors) allow us to use all of the wonderful old film lenses in the way they were designed to be used, and obviate the need for goofy ultra-short lenses to get the usual wide angle perspectives.

I wasn't crazy about losing my existing lenses (both for the focal length and lack of silent wave tech), but I do like the compactness of the DX lenses.  It's nice while dragging the camera around all day with the kids.

Chris

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 01:41:05 PM »
I'd love to use some of the old Zeiss glass on my DSLR.  I have a few nice old Pentax and Nikon lenses that could be put to better use, too.

It's true that the old stuff is bigger and heavier.  The extra weight is largely a function of superior build quality, not physical size.  Some of the modern plastic 35mm lenses weigh nearly nothing.

And besides, it's all smaller and lighter than my Rollei gear, so I don't mind too much.  It's all relative, eh?

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 04:50:40 PM »
Bigger sensors are worse, in theory. Reality is a result of marketing and the products actually on the shelves.

In film-land, there is motivation to make film big, because film is limited in having a certain sized grain structure, and you want to use lots of film so less enlargement is required to print a given size. Everyone knows that 35mm is grainy. It's at the bottom of the film-format heap, but the cameras are small, and have faster and cheaper optics than any other format. This is because of the small film size. If it wasn't for the grain, even smaller would be even better. And digital has no grain.

It's not easy to make very high-quality glass cover a large image circle. F/1.4 35mm lenses are cheap, but you can't even get a f/1.4 lens for large format. If anyone made one it would weigh a ton and cost bazillions, and the DOF would be totally unusable. This is why smaller formats are better, optically. It's fundamental optics. Larger formats are only better if your film sucks, so that using more of it beats out the optical disadvantages of using larger film. Even before digital, the progession went from 8x10 large format cameras, to 6cm wide roll film cameras, to 35mm cameras, as film got better and finer grained.

This goes back to the classic medium-format vs. 35mm wedding photography debate. Once upon a time, people used an emulsion of animal products and precious metals on a base of plant-derived clear film to capture and store images. I hear some crackpots still do. But anyway as you know, larger film should provide higher image quality because it requires less enlargement. So the pictures will be less grainy than a smaller format (sounds like the whole 'small sensors are noisier' argument). Right?

Well, as you also know, larger formats have less DOF at a given aperture than smaller ones do. So you are always going to be shooting a medium format camera at a smaller aperture than 35mm to get the same image with the same DOF and shutter speed. So you are always going to have to shoot faster, grainier film in the medium format camera in the same lighting conditions. At the end of the day, you can load fine-grained 50-speed film in a 35mm camera to take exactly the same shots as a medium-format camera loaded with 400-speed film. Thus, the 35mm advocates would say, 35mm can be just as good as medium format with modern films.

They are wrong; medium format is still better, if you have enough light. You simply shoot with a slightly slower shutter during the day...the difference between 1/125 and 1/500 doesn't matter for lots of daylight photography. But their point is sound, in that the smaller format size partially makes up for the grain/resolution disadvantage. If you need low-light performance or a fast shutter speed, or both, out comes the 35mm. It's just faster. The advantages are obvious; if it wasn't for film grain smaller formats would be better at everything.

Enter digital. CCD image sensors can fit greater resolving power than 35mm in a size that is much smaller than even 35mm. Hurray, this a great advantage, we can have smaller sensors. This should enable all the advantages of a smaller format: smaller, better quality, faster lenses, with no grain increase, and it kind of does...you can see that the "digital" lenses that have come out are smaller, cheaper, lighter, and have bigger apertures-per-zoomage than 35mm lenses. One of the key advantages of digital SHOULD be the small format size. This is a good thing, but people apparently missed the message. Instead of scaling sensors down, so they can use lighter, faster lenses at the same DOF and shoot at lower ISOs to reduce noise, people want to put a 35mm sized sensor in a digital camera so they can have big, heavy, expensive, worse glass, and less DOF for a given aperture so they have to use smaller apertures and shoot at higher ISO for the same DOF compared to the smaller sensor. Gee, what a great idea.

But you can hardly blame the photographers for falling for it, because the fact is they can't get the shallow DOF they want on a small sensor with the slow-ass lenses out there. Instead of pouncing on the opportunity to manufacture large-aperture digital-format lenses, thereby mitigating much of the "high-iso noise problem" and the "flat-looking" problem at the same time, the manufacturers just gave everyone the apertures they were used to in a smaller size, while now they could afford to bundle zoom lenses with their cameras because Joe Snapshooter loves zoom lenses and remembers them being expensive.

Where the hell are all the fast digital-format lenses? My 8mm camera has a f/.75 lens and is hyperfocal from 12 feet to infinity wide open, because of the extremely small image format. If f/1.4 lenses were considered the fastest practical lens on 35mm, f/.9 or so should be the standard on digital, while probably still being cheaper. So basically what happened is that instead of adapting to the new smaller format sizes to their fullest extent, the camera industry just stuck a smaller sensor in a similar optical system and billed the small sensor as "bug, not a feature" because it allowed them to slap kit cameras with cheap zoom lenses in apertures that the unsuspecting public would view as acceptable, and now they can push larger sensors as a superior and more expensive option to get the performance they should be getting out of smaller sensors with a host of other advantages that smaller sensors have on top of it all.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 05:02:06 PM by zahc »
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2009, 05:13:50 PM »
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2009, 11:12:03 PM »
Smaller digital is better than bigger film blah blah blah

The advantages of large sensors have more to do with the physics/statistics of counting photons and with optical resolving power.  All sorts of important factors play a part, stuff like like dynamic range, signal-to-noise ratio, photon noise vs read noise, poisson statistics, diffraction problems, and all sorts of other interesting phenomenon.  And that's just the internals of the sensor.  There are optical problems too, lens resolution, MTFs, diffraction effects, and so on.

Riddle me this:  What happens if you have a teeny tiny high resolution sensor with a pixel density of 400 pixels per millimeter, and the best available lenses can only produce an image that resolves 100 lines per millimeter?

Some interesting reading (well, it's interesting if you're a photo geek)
http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.sensor.performance.summary/index.html
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/understanding-mtf.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/u-diffraction.shtml
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/size_matters.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensor_size
http://www.adaptall-2.com/articles/Resolution_and_Contrast.html

Most of these phenomena are easily observable if you're serious (obsessive?) about your camera gear.  If you know your lens inside and out, you've probably noticed that it's sharper at medium apertures than at the smallest aperture.  Quick, why is that so?  You've probably seen that your camera produces less noise, especially in shadow regions, at lower ISO settings than at high ISO.  Have you ever wondered why?  Maybe you've looked up the MTF chart for your favorite lens, or maybe you've even experimented with a resolution chart, or at least read a lens review that used one.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 11:19:36 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Harold Tuttle

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2009, 12:08:59 AM »
there's also a parallel vs divergent light rays striking a flat plane sensor issues
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2009, 12:16:00 AM »
Quote
If you know your lens inside and out, you've probably noticed that it's sharper at medium apertures than at the smallest aperture.  Quick, why is that so? 




Quote
You've probably seen that your camera produces less noise, especially in shadow regions, at lower ISO settings than at high ISO.  Have you ever wondered why?

Not really. It's elementary. Which is why I think smaller sensors are better, because they allow lower ISO's to be used at any given DOF. The fact that camera manufacturers use CMOS sensors rather than CCDs has more to do with noise than probably any optical factor.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2009, 12:34:04 AM »

Follow it through to the end.  What would be the combined effects of a smaller sensor with greater pixel density, and a smaller diameter lens aperture necessitated by the shorter lenses needed for small sensors?

Not really. It's elementary. Which is why I think smaller sensors are better, because they allow lower ISO's to be used at any given DOF. The fact that camera manufacturers use CMOS sensors rather than CCDs has more to do with noise than probably any optical factor.
If you've not noticed that shadow noise scales with the ISO, then you haven't been paying much attention to your images.  That, or you have a magical perfect camera, in which case I'd like to know which make and model you use.

LAK

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2009, 07:41:16 AM »
Firethorn
Quote
I have to agree with you - but exceptions do exist.  I still use an older 1.6MP camera because it has better glass and optical zoom than most of the 5+MP cameras out today.  I just can't blow up a image as much.

Digital cameras are marketed on the basis of their pixel count, not their glass quality, at least until you get to the better cameras.

Of course, CCD quality varies as well.  Think of it as your 'film', but unlike film, you can't vary it according to your needs, and it isn't used up, so you're not saving money using 'cheap' film when quality isn't important, and using 'expensive' stuff when quality really matters because you're going to be making a life size poster.

Just like film, there's actually multiple sizes of CCD, bigger ones offer more resolution, but can also be 'tuned' to cut down on noise.  It's part of why a good professional camera with a lower MP capability will actually take better pictures than a cheap consumer with more - not only better glass, but a better CCD.
While exceptions might exist, I have yet to observe any in the flesh results that indicate so. And ultimately any camera is limited by the quality and character of it's lens.

I have owned and used others; presently I have a couple of '70s Olympus OM-1 cameras with a pretty good selection of lenses - and several examples of the late-60s/70s Rollei 35 compacts. They do not require batteries except to run the meters (which I have rarely used anyway), they are mechanical mechanisms, can be economically fixed, and will still work in 10, 20 or 50 years. Even the 60s Rollei will take excellent pictures; sharp, great color and contrast straight from the film lab.

From a practical standpoint they are fast and practical to use. They are always "turned on", the settings can be changed in a matter of a few seconds. By comparison, the only digital camera I own has a plethora of "settings" that must be reset every time I turn it off, and transitions from close up to far distant, etc are tedious, hard to accomplish in daylight when the LCD is hard to see.

All digital cameras have a very limited and short window of economical repair. They are as finitely "valuable" and disposable as digital calculators, watches, computers, TVs etc. They are practical, convenient tools for business where such items are bought, used, tossed and replaced - the costs being swallowed up among the other overheads. The mass market cheap and cheerful snappers will be content with a $100 or less point and shoot for the beach and bar - and perhaps even buy a new one every year, as they get cheaper and cheaper.

For others, buying "the best I can afford" digital camera is going to be an ongoing and indefinite hole in the pocket. Me, I see them as cheap casual shooters, convenient record keeping, useful for making images for computer use, online etc - and that's about it. Buy cheap, throw in trash when they break, and buy a new one. Repeat.

And there is something missing in digital media that is hard to pin down. I have yet to see any digital image - on screen or printed - that can compare to the best film transparencies or prints.

mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2009, 10:04:42 AM »
Quote from: LAK
For others, buying "the best I can afford" digital camera is going to be an ongoing and indefinite hole in the pocket. Me, I see them as cheap casual shooters, convenient record keeping, useful for making images for computer use, online etc - and that's about it. Buy cheap, throw in trash when they break, and buy a new one. Repeat.

Yeah, buying the best you can afford made sense when you were buying a camera that you could reasonably expect to use for a decade or three.  Ken Rockwell makes a very good point frequently in his writings about not buying more camera than you can effectively use for this very reason.  He was one of the main influences behind me buying a D40 (that and the incredible 1/500 flash sync that isn't available on any other Nikon).  I do not expect to keep my D40 for more than 4-6 years, at which point it'll either be worn out or I'll "need" something better. 

When I bought my N80 in 2004, I bought the best camera I could afford and bought good glass for it as well (50 F1.8, 24 f.28, and 70-210 F4.5-5.6).  Nikon abandoned users like myself by making a move towards motorized lenses for many of their camera.  My film lenses would not work with their newest cameras.  They would work with the older digital SLRs and their pro-level gear, but I wanted a new camera and didn't have the funds for a pro level rig.  With the difference in price, I could buy good lenses for a D40, so it didn't make economic sense.

That said, film cameras aren't always cheap to repair.  I bought a used Nikon F100 this Winter.  It arrived with what appeared to be minor issues (rubber body cladding coming loose, flash shoe loose and not making good flash connection).  I contacted the seller and he said he'd pay for the repairs.  I contacted a repair shop.  The repairs would cost more than I paid for the camera.  Since that was more than the seller wanted to pay, I sent the camera back at his request.  On the other hand, my 30+yo OM1 needed some minor work and it only cost $100 to repair it and convert the meter to use modern batteries. 

Quote from: LAK
And there is something missing in digital media that is hard to pin down. I have yet to see any digital image - on screen or printed - that can compare to the best film transparencies or prints.

I don't think it's the digital image itself.  As I pointed out earlier, all minilab prints are printed the same way whether they are film or digital.  Film is scanned and printed just like a digital image (light beamed onto photo sensitive paper, ie lightjet).  I believe what makes many digital images *look* different is excessive post exposure processing.  Everyone likes to play with Photoshop till the image looks artificial.  My digital pics taken with my D40 look just like the film pics I took with my N80.  I do no post exposure processing, I merely set the camera to give a very slightly warm white balance, underexpose by .3 stop, and when using flash also reduce flash output by .3 stops.  I used similar settings with my film based N80 (except the white balance, I achieved that with film selection).  I also use bounced flash whenever possible.  I make NO adjustments to the image once they are created inside the camera.  What I download is what gets printed.  The results are images that look much the same to my eyes and what I remember shooting. 

Chris

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2009, 10:17:18 AM »
Quote
What would be the combined effects of a smaller sensor with greater pixel density, and a smaller diameter lens aperture necessitated by the shorter lenses needed for small sensors?
you are right that there is a 'bottom'. I'm not convinced that DX sized sensors are hitting the bottom and 35mm size sensors are above it, though, considering the great quality that compact digicams can achieve with their puny 2.5mm sensors.


Quote
If you've not noticed that shadow noise scales with the ISO, then you haven't been paying much attention to your images
That's not what I meant; it's obvious that noise increases with ISO. I just never really wondered why this is so, because it's obvious (to me). To reiterate, this is why I think going to a larger sensor is stupid; because for any given DOF you will have to use higher ISOs, mitigating the advantages (low noise) you were trying to get with the larger sensor, while discarding the attractive advantages of a small sensor (possibility of smaller lenses).


Quote
And there is something missing in digital media that is hard to pin down.
I think the thing missing is that it's not film. It doesn't matter if digital cameras become 399 megapixels with 4000lp/mm resolution and low noise to iso 34988 while costing $3 and taking the pictures for you. It's still not film. It will always be virtual photography. You can make a digital keyboard sound amazing, but it will never be a piano, and there will always be crazy non-practical luddites that just prefer the real thing, despite its impracticality, even if (or maybe because) it is imperfect.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2009, 10:32:16 AM »
because for any given DOF you will have to use higher ISOs

Why would you not use a slower shutter speed and tripod to maintain the lower ISO?  You can do that with a digital camera. 

I think the thing missing is that it's not film. It doesn't matter if digital cameras become 399 megapixels with 4000lp/mm resolution and low noise to iso 34988 while costing $3 and taking the pictures for you. It's still not film. It will always be virtual photography.

It makes no difference when your negatives are scanned and printed on the same paper that another person's digital images are printed on inside the Fuji Frontier Minilab.  Excepting post exposure computer processing (Photoshop), the only time I see a noticeable difference between a good film-based picture and a good digital image is in B&W (assuming the film print was a traditional silver-based print and not a digitized negative).  There might also be a difference if you found a shop that still printed color the old fashioned way, but you're not getting that service from Costco, Walgreens, Walmart, and most "camera shops". 

Obviously, slides are a different beast. 

Chris

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2009, 11:05:28 AM »
Quote
Why would you not use a slower shutter speed and tripod to maintain the lower ISO?  You can do that with a digital camera

Of course you can, so why doesn't everyone just use ISO 100 all the time? Because they need the shutter speeds and apertures enabled by the higher ISO! Obviously. My very point is that with a larger sensor you are going to have to use a higher ISO, other factors being held equal.


Quote
It makes no difference when your negatives are scanned and printed on the same paper that another person's digital images are printed on inside the Fuji Frontier Minilab.

You are trying to spin a feature as if it was a bug. Film users can scan their negatives and do everything with their images that digital users can. Yet, they still have physical originals for optical printing, archiving, or use in film-fetish roll-play. Digital users are the ones missing options here.

Besides, digital sensors are not film. It's practically a given that a digital sensor is going to provide a different-looking file than a scanned negative. Even if you are into digital post, you can effectively try out dozens or hundreds of different 'sensors' for capturing your images. More choice.

Some people think that film has real technical advantages as a capture medium over digital sensors, due to its contrast and latitude characteristics, so film might be a better sensor even if you intend to throw the negatives away. To me it seem more practical to shoot $2 sheets of Provia and scan them to 40megapixel files than spend what, $40,000 on a large-format back to have fewer options and no physical originals.

None of this matters to me anyway because I just don't do digital. I don't do computers, flickr, photoshop, inkjets, DSLRs, RAW, battery chargers, batteries in the first place usually, or even lenses half the time. I use advanced yet simple silver-halide chemical processes to create and store high-resolution images in physical form, which I then duplicate optically directly to paper prints without ever using a transistor, in a process that used to be known as "photography".

I really just have no interest in digital cameras, except for putting things on eBay. To me they are just a way to do something that's kind of like photography without having to actually do photography. A dynamic which is extremely valued in our society of people who when not doing virtual photography can be found doing virtual sports on their virtual-reality boxes in their living rooms, or reading their e-books on their e-book paper which is now electronic, but almost as good as real paper!!!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 11:10:56 AM by zahc »
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mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2009, 12:01:53 PM »
Quote
You are trying to spin a feature as if it was a bug.

No, I'm pointing out that if you're shooting film and having the local minilab produce your prints you are getting essentially the same print the digital user gets in the end.  I've put hundreds of rolls of film through my local minilab and have started running my digital images through the same lab.  The end results, a lightjet (hate that term) print on paper, look identical. 

Quote
Besides, digital sensors are not film. It's practically a given that a digital sensor is going to provide a different-looking file than a scanned negative.
What's your point?  As you said, changing film has a marked effect on the image as well.  You shoot the same scene with Kodachrome, Velvia, Reala (my favorite print film, btw), etc and you'll get significantly different results, so saying a digital sensor produces a different image is pointless.   

Quote
I use advanced yet simple silver-halide chemical processes to create and store high-resolution images in physical form, which I then duplicate optically directly to paper prints without ever using a transistor, in a process that used to be known as "photography".

 :rolleyes:

Don't presume to lecture me on the meaning of "photography".  I was developing my own B&W nearly 20 years ago and had my own darkroom  (ok, I set up my enlarger and tanks in an unused, windowless bathroom) until a couple years ago.  You were just getting started less than a year ago (http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=13936.0). 

The same "arguments" occur every time there is a format/technology shift (maybe you missed the debates about 35mm "back in the day"). 

Photography is an art and only the final image matters.  The tools you use to get there are irrelevant. 

Chris

Firethorn

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2009, 12:12:26 PM »
I really just have no interest in digital cameras, except for putting things on eBay. To me they are just a way to do something that's kind of like photography without having to actually do photography. A dynamic which is extremely valued in our society of people who when not doing virtual photography can be found doing virtual sports on their virtual-reality boxes in their living rooms, or reading their e-books on their e-book paper which is now electronic, but almost as good as real paper!!!

I've played around with ebooks quite a bit.  The thing you have to realize is that, when it comes to ebooks, there are currently tradeoffs.  I still own more physical books than ebooks, and I have to admit that I haven't owned or even seen an eInk device(the reason I haven't bought one yet, I want to see one IRL before I spend $400+).

Ebook Benefits:
1.  Take up hardly any space.  A chip the size of a postage stamp can hold hundreds, even thousands of books.
2.  Some options can be read in the dark without further aid.(same options tend to perform worse in bright light)
3.  Electronically searchable.  Looking for a specific phrase?  CTRL-F and away you go
4.  Can copy text for purposes of quoting (not all ebooks, I can with mine, I don't buy the ones with nasty DRM)
5.  Can normally adjust the font/size of print or pictures if you're not of average visual acuity - whether you make the font larger or smaller is up to you.  Heck, in some cases you can chose to read using a laundry's list of fonts such as Courier, New Roman, Calibri, even Comic Sans or Edwardian Script if you want.

Downsides:
1.  Need (some) power - eInk devices often have battery lives in the weeks though, so I'm not sure how much that matters.  Install a solar panel if you're really worried.
2.  Some options lack contrast for reading in bright light.(same options tend to perform better than traditional books in low light)
3.  Device costs a LOT more than a single book
4.  Device tends to be more fragile than a real book
5.  Contrast is often lower
6.  The 'feel' isn't the same

Photography is an art and only the final image matters.  The tools you use to get there are irrelevant. 

The only quibble I'd have with that is that the tools can often have a significant impact on the end result.

mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2009, 12:19:45 PM »
The only quibble I'd have with that is that the tools can often have a significant impact on the end result.

True, but so can the film, paper, and even the developers you use.  They're all tools in the process.  Claiming one is better than another "simply because" is asinine.

Chris

zahc

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2009, 03:08:25 PM »
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You shoot the same scene with Kodachrome, Velvia, Reala (my favorite print film, btw), etc and you'll get significantly different results, so saying a digital sensor produces a different image is pointless
Um, ok? Pointless or not, I'll say it again..."any digital sensor will give a different image than a piece of scanned film". I wasn't really trying to make a point with it.

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I'm pointing out that if you're shooting film and having the local minilab produce your prints you are getting essentially the same print the digital user gets in the end.

You don't notice a difference in the images between the film and the digital-originating files? To me, it's usually easy to spot the pictures that came from film; they usually have obvious grain and completely different tonal rendering. I think minilab prints coming from digital cameras usually look smoother, lower contrast/better latitude/adjustment, are grainless. I don't think minilabs' auto-brightness works as often for film as it does for digital. I most people are going to get better prints from a modern digital camera, if they are giving a minilab their film directly.

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They're all tools in the process.  Claiming one is better than another "simply because" is asinine.

I'm sorry if I implied that film is better than digital. I simply said that it is different than digital, and I maintain that it cannot be replaced by digital, regardless of the technical merits of either medium, because it is different. For the record, I also don't care for digital imaging. I like my cameras like I like my women.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2009, 04:15:40 PM »
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I like my cameras like I like my women.
Then this may be the show for you:
http://www.tvland.com/prime/shows/cougar/season1/
 :laugh:

mtnbkr

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Re: They're Taking His Kodachrome Away
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2009, 04:21:28 PM »