Author Topic: First hand account from Egypt  (Read 3705 times)

Unisaw

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First hand account from Egypt
« on: February 03, 2011, 02:26:51 PM »
Well, fourth hand actually...from friends of my co-worker's niece:

"We just arrived in Paris from Egypt, where we spent the last three weeks. When the protests began Friday afternoon in Alexandria, we had a birds' eye view from the 4th floor of the Metropole Hotel, but we
have little to add to what we heard about that on the news. Rather
than relaying what you've seen on TV, I want to tell you about a few things that we haven't seen in the news on CNN and BBC, mostly about the situation in Egypt for tourists. Excuse the rough editing.
 
You've heard about the Internet being turned off and how that somewhat impeded the ability of the protestors to organize, but did you know that having no Internet also shut off all the ATM machines? Or that hundreds of tourists who thought that had reservations at hotels found no rooms waiting because the hotels had no access to the internet to see the reservations?
>
When we left Alexandria on saturday to connect with our ticketed flight on Monday, all the banks and ATMs in the area were closed, and we had to use all but our last $300 to pay the hotel bill, since Visa and Mastercard were both down too. Then the van to Cairo which had
already been paid demanded another $100 a person for the trip. Eek!
By miracle we found a lone ATM at a rest area that honored a draw of 2000 LE ($400), so we arrived at our hotel with some money but none of the banks or ATMs we found after that were operating. If our flight hadn't taken off we would have been homeless.
 
When we arrived at the Novotel at the Cairo the lobby was in chaos.
Another miracle, they had our reservation. I had the foresight to reserve a "no cancellation" room two days before they turned the Internet off, but the lobby was full of people of all nationalities who were not so lucky, and they remained there, sleeping on every horizontal surface through the night, even as the maids worked around the clock to clean rooms as people checked out.
 
Our hearts sank when we discovered that our Air France flight was indefinitely postponed and we heard from other Air France passengers whose flights had been cancelled and rescheduled three days later. We made multiple attempts to call Air France, whose message referred us to the Internet, and to the U. S. Embassy whose switchboard was closed. Consequently I made five trips to the airport during the night, a fifteen minute walk, and finally at 0300 AM the departure board finally listed our flight at 1530, or eight hours late. My relief was tempered by disbelief.
 
CHAOS AT THE AIRPORT
 
We arrived at the airport four hours early and it wasn't enough.
First, our shuttle became gridlocked a 1/2 mile from the terminal and as we walked all our bags toward the terminal we could see a massive mob outside the doors. All these people were attempting to enter the one door that was open one person wide, while an equal number of people were trying to get out the same door. I'm afraid Nancy and I were ruthless in pushing our way in the door. By the time we got in, my T-shirt was soaking and it was hotter inside. There we no police on site to direct traffic and chaos reigned.
 
Immediately inside a young man approached and offered to take us to a "no wait" line for 200 LE apiece ($50 each). I declined and still wonder if it was a mistake. Our problems from then on were abetted by men like him bucking the line and creating total grid lock at the scanning machines. After a while of pushing and shoving our way through the crowd we came to a metal barrier which was supposed to funnel us toward the line but everybody was climbing the barrier and lifting or throwing their baggage over. There wasn't much choice because in the throng of people trying to get to the ticket counters it was impossible to see where the authorized passage began. It was there we began to run into abandoned luggage. Is it clear this wasn't a polite crowd? There we times we feared we'd be crushed and Nancy and I were both toppled over more than once. People with small children were particularly affected.
 
Being newcomers to the world of chaos, we had to learn fast how to move very, very steadily forward without giving up an inch. At the front door, we had to "pooshy pooshy pooshy", the crowd chant for "push" along with several hundred other people, all being funneled into a door about three feet wide. Don't forget, we had three bags with us! If we'd become separated, I don't know what we would have done, but luckily (and that's all it was) that never happened. At three points we encountered way way way too many people trying to move
forward: at the front door, at the security gate, and finally at the Air France ticket counter. At each point, there were all kinds of people caught in the crush -- grandmas and grandpas, parents with families, lots and lots of travelers from all over the world, businessmen -- you name it, they were caught up in it. And of course there were the usual SOBs taking advantage of the situation -- Frank mentioned the men who, for 200 Egyptian pounds would get us through the security scanners fast, and others pushing brutally to get to the front (in grade school we called that "cutting in", but in this case there was no line to cut into) and seeming not to care if they knocked people over, including kids. Too many people for anything as orderly as a line. Several women suffered panic attacks, screaming and crying. Several people fainted -- it was close in there, and both Frank and I felt woozy a couple of times, as did many of the people we talked to after we got on the plane. On the other hand, there were several people who went out of their way to help: The man who helped an entire family leave the area, lifting the children overhead and making people move back so the women could walk out, the same man who gave Frank a tissue to wipe his very sweaty head, a group of three young folks from South Korea who kept tabs on each other and on me (and I on them, as one of the young women was definitely on the verge of passing out, and so we all supported her until she was better), a Frenchman who, with Frank, managed to get enough order to get some bags through the security X ray machine by simply dominating the crowd with the force of his personality, etc., etc., etc. Everyone cooperated to lift children overhead rather than run the risk of their getting pushed down by the line-cutter-inners.
 
We wondered several times why there were no police or other crowd-
control people there, but in retrospect I don't think they would have
made a lot of difference; there were simply too many people, too
agitated, in too small a space. I can't imagine what a policeman
could've done to maintain order short of closing the airport, and that
would have been disastrous.
 
I imagine others found, as we did, that in this situation we formed
informal coalitions with the people immediately around us and so we
became a cohort of sorts that in an hour and a half fought our way up
to the scanner. There we stood for the next three and a half hours
because the luggage scanner was jammed and every time it became
unjammed, these darn "helpers for 200 Egyptian pounds jammed it again
by refusing to let one bag go through at a time. People around began
a mantra, "one by one," but it didn't help. Two oversized suitcases
do a great job of jamming one of these machines if they are fed in
askew, and it was never just one bag. Making the problem worse, the
density of crowd inside the cordoned area was forcing people onto the
rollers for the luggage, so even if the scanner hadn't been jammed,
there was nowhere for the luggage to go.
 
Finally, at the exact time our flight was scheduled to depart, someone
came who knew how to operate the machine, and two men and I formed a
team which pushed everyone back and fed the luggage into the machine,
one at a time. It was like playing football. All this while there
was a stream of people and baggage coming out of the gate we were
trying to go in, and we could hear screaming inside the gate. One
man, his glasses askew on his face came out muttering, "It's dangerous
in there." We had to wonder if getting through would be worth it.
But once we got through it only (!!!) took another hour to get to the
Air France counter (one scale and desk) and from there things went
better. They even took us out of the security line to an office where
our passports were stamped, looking soggy (i.e., sweaty) and tattered,
and we were led through the protesting crowd to the final scanning
machines where a thorough job was done of xraying our baggage. We
finally boarded our 0730 flight, rescheduled 1530, at 1800, and took
off cheering at 1830.
 
I believe most of the people in the airport were ticketless and doomed
to disappointment."

Comments:
The veneer of civilization is thinner than most people think.
It's not hard to imagine that ATMs and credit cards would go down in the event of a natural disaster (e.g., should Seattle get the big earthquake).
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Chester32141

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 05:00:17 PM »
Thank you for posting this ...  [popcorn]
"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter...... "

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Ben

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 09:41:56 AM »
Very interesting first-hand account of the crowd dynamics.

Though it can be difficult or even dangerous to have large amounts of cash during foreign travel, this account sure has some examples of cash coing in handy.

Quote
It's not hard to imagine that ATMs and credit cards would go down in the event of a natural disaster (e.g., should Seattle get the big earthquake).

It's been probably 12 years, and I can't remember how much of the Western US was affected, but at the time, a communications satellite went down and knocked out a whole bunch of electronic infrastructure, including ATMs and credit card readers. It was certainly no riot, but I remember long lines of very aggravated people around town. I had to get gas that day and the lines at all the stations were ridiculous. They were able to take credit cards, but they had to manually phone every card in to get payment approval. I was able to just walk to the front of the line, toss down a twenty, and be on my way. Some of the younger people I know kid me for always carrying cash around when I can just slide my debit or credit card, but there are times when it sure comes in handy. I've always included a useful amount of cash as part of my emergency supplies.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

seeker_two

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 12:07:04 PM »
I've gotten to where I carry a good bit of cash around. I only use my check card in places where it never leaves my hand (gas pump, fast-food restaurants, etc.). Since hearing how a lot of wait staff at restaurants were caught using card skimmers to steal CC info, I pay in cash when I pay at the table....
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geronimotwo

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 10:32:49 AM »
sounds scary.  i couldn't imagine trying to manage that mess with children.  and i thought penn station near the holidays was bad enough!
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

MillCreek

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 12:17:58 PM »
For many years, I have kept about $ 500 in cash at home in $ 20 bills for just this sort of thing. 
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Jamisjockey

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 02:22:37 PM »
For many years, I have kept about $ 500 in cash at home in $ 20 bills for just this sort of thing. 


I'm working up a cash reserve myself.  It only makes sense.  I could easily see ATM's being down around here post-hurricane.  I'm aiming for a number a little north of your reserve, though.  Maybe x3 ish.  I've also got 2 rolls of quarters with my cash reserve.  Its all part of my BOB, too.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Jamisjockey

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 02:51:53 PM »
Okay just spent some more time anylizing the report and thinking it through:

1)  Cash is king.  Carry more than you think you should any time you travel, especially if you leave the country.  Being caught up in another country while the SHTF seems like a worst caser in my book. ATM's being shut off is a real fear. 
2)  Alternate travel.  Research alternate travel before you make your trip.  Have phone numbers for at least 2 other ways out of the country, to another friendly country
3) This stuck out at me like a sore thumb:
Quote
Don't forget, we had three bags with us!
As the story is told, several times it seems that the ammount of luggage was a hinderance.  Baggage jams in the xray machines, people slinging luggage over barriers, plus the stress of movement with so much stuff! Let it go!   If things are so bad that you're bailing out of the country, ditch some stuff.  You can wear dirty clothes for days.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone down to one suitcase, preferably the smallest.  Buy new clothes when you get home.
4) Don't wait for things to get bad.  Watch the news (BBC, Al Jazerra, whatever, depending on where you are), and if where you are is making the news for natural disaster or civil unrest, it might be time to unass the AO. 
5) Consider alternate forms of communication. There are companies that can rent out sat phones and even satellite internet connections.  Egypt didn't just shut off the internet, they shut off cell phone service. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Ben

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 03:06:28 PM »
Good points Jamis.

After your mention of #2, I reread the article, and caught what I didn't on the first read, that people were really tied to their possessions. I can see that if you're a native of the country and fleeing, there's probably some tie-in to getting out of the country with family heirlooms or other worldly possessions that hold some deep value. If you're a tourist however, yeah -- dump everything but the absolute essentials and a change of cloths or wear your clothing layered. A whole family should be able to get down to one small rucksack if they're trying to get out of Tourist Dodge, especially if they're flying.

On #4, I actually wonder how much tourists knew. If you were in one of the the popular tourist locations well outside Cairo, it may have been difficult to get a read on the situation. If you look at it based on US events, how did the Rodney King riots for example, look to the outside world compared to how we looked at them? Certainly LA was in shambles, but people in most of the rest of the country were carrying on as usual. If you're sitting on a beach with someone bringing you drinks with umbrellas in them, you might not take the Cairo events as seriously as you should.
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 03:19:24 PM »
Okay just spent some more time anylizing the report and thinking it through:

1)  Cash is king.  Carry more than you think you should any time you travel, especially if you leave the country.  Being caught up in another country while the SHTF seems like a worst caser in my book. ATM's being shut off is a real fear. 
2)  Alternate travel.  Research alternate travel before you make your trip.  Have phone numbers for at least 2 other ways out of the country, to another friendly country
3) This stuck out at me like a sore thumb:As the story is told, several times it seems that the ammount of luggage was a hinderance.  Baggage jams in the xray machines, people slinging luggage over barriers, plus the stress of movement with so much stuff! Let it go!   If things are so bad that you're bailing out of the country, ditch some stuff.  You can wear dirty clothes for days.  There is no reason they couldn't have gone down to one suitcase, preferably the smallest.  Buy new clothes when you get home.
4) Don't wait for things to get bad.  Watch the news (BBC, Al Jazerra, whatever, depending on where you are), and if where you are is making the news for natural disaster or civil unrest, it might be time to unass the AO. 
5) Consider alternate forms of communication. There are companies that can rent out sat phones and even satellite internet connections.  Egypt didn't just shut off the internet, they shut off cell phone service. 


Very good plan of action.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 03:40:53 PM »
Ben, I think its a matter of perspective.  Riots in one or two American cities are no big deal, we're a huge county. Riots in the capital of a dictatorship? Sounds like bad juju.  I think trying to keep abreast of the situation through more reguonalized news outlets.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

vaskidmark

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 05:04:08 PM »
Whatever you do, DO NOT rely on the US Embassy to either alert you to the developing problem or to come and get you when the rotary oscillator begins getting impacted by the brown stuff.  Those days ended back before I became a teenager and Dad was a priority asset to national security.  We lived out of one suitcase each, and had the then-ubitquious airline carry-on bag with stuff mentioned below.

If you can bring a pocket-sized shortwave receiver with you http://countycomm.com/gp4light.htm (and get the external antenna reel as well) then you have a better chance of hearing about the balloon as it is being filled with gas rather than when it appears overhead.

Inside your basic luggage, or preferably already strapped to your body, have your essentials: passport, emergency stash of both cash & traveller's checks (as good as cash in many spots, but don't expect change), cell/satellite phone with extra battery, and extra underwear and socks.  Flashlights get a lot of attention but I've never needed one as badly as I needed a change out of wet socks.  Credit cards, especially in foreign travel, can be ditched with abandon if you make sure to avoid also leaving additional personal identifying info (like a signature sample, home address, etc.) - or you can scratch up the magnetic strip as you are ditching it.  Cutting it helps, but you may not have anything sharp or the time to bend it back and forth till it snaps.  Everything else can be used as barriers between you and those trying to catch up to you.  (BIG HINT FOR DEALING WITH KIDDIES - permanent marker writing on their back & stomach with name, nationality, and possibly a method for emergency contact that is not your or your family/friends' home phone number.  Maybe a work number?)

Once you get to a safe haven you can contact the US Embassy, or one from a friendly nation, for assistance in contacting the Red Cross in order to contact family/friends to wire money, or just to get a call out.  You do have an "emergency contact" with a recognition/verification code, don't you?  Ever thought you might be kidnapped, or your family/friends the victims of a kidnap scam?  Works when you are going to Disney Land/World as well as to foreign shores.

When Getting Out Of Dodge, remember that everything except your skin can eventually be replaced.  If it begins to get in the way, ditch it.

More importantly, when away from home remember to watch/listen to the local news & weather reports.  When in foreign countries rely on news from an outside source.

Last hint - when trying to Get Out Of Dodge, do not proclaim American citizenship until you are safely across the frontier, unless forced to do so.  Pretend to be Canadian, or British, or even German (don't need to try to fake the languages as much as not be picked out as a representative of The Great Satan.)

Final thought - go here http://straightforwardinacrookedworld.blogspot.com/2009/07/dark-arts-for-good-guys-series-flight.html and follow his advice.  Poke around for more advice.

stay safe.
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AJ Dual

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 07:10:58 PM »
My list is simpler:

1. Don't travel to countries that aren't 100% stable first world Western Civ. representational democracies. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Israel, and Europe should provide you with a lifetime of travel, unless you are uber-rich, or you engage in an area of study or industry that requires travel elsewhere, in which case you (should) have extra resources and reserves at your disposal.

2. See #1.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2011, 07:15:41 PM »
My list is simpler:

1. Don't travel to countries that aren't 100% stable first world Western Civ. representational democracies. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Israel, and Europe should provide you with a lifetime of travel, unless you are uber-rich, or you engage in an area of study or industry that requires travel elsewhere, in which case you (should) have extra resources and reserves at your disposal.

2. See #1.

I think, however, that most of this list can be applied even on a regional sacle.  Many of the european countries are subject to the same kind of mass spread rioting.  Hell, even a major power outage or storm can cause the kind of insanity that these people are enjoying.  Take a trip to the North East for the fall colors, and another blackout knocks out the power  to the region.  Gotta have a contingency plan.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

AJ Dual

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 07:20:36 PM »
I think, however, that most of this list can be applied even on a regional sacle.  Many of the european countries are subject to the same kind of mass spread rioting.  Hell, even a major power outage or storm can cause the kind of insanity that these people are enjoying.  Take a trip to the North East for the fall colors, and another blackout knocks out the power  to the region.  Gotta have a contingency plan.

Indeed. Having a plan, and thinking ahead to "be where the mob isn't" was critical in just having a good Disney experience over the past week.

My point was that even with the recent, and ongoing, unpleasantness in Greece for instance, I've not heard of anyone being "stranded", or in any great fear for their safety.  The worst of the 1992 L.A. riots would not have normally caught travelers, unless they had business in the area, or had somehow gotten lost at exactly the right time.
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Pharmacology

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Re: First hand account from Egypt
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 05:15:07 PM »
I can definitely relate to the Baggage point.
My first trip to Moscow, I took a suitcase with wheels.
My girlfriend met me at the airport and asked me, "why such a big bag?"

I soon discovered that she intended for us to go through the subway during rush hour.
The Metro at rush hour is a horrible, horrible thing for a boy from Texas running on 1 hour of sleep, who has grown up saying "excuse me, ma'am", and holding the door for others. I was shoved, stepped on, and generally brutalized. My fiance, being the dork she is, charged ahead, hardly ever turning around to check if I was there. 
Worst case scenario, I would've met her at the next station.   I can't imagine the pressure in Egypt, where the stakes are much higher.

P.S.  I've used a huge camping backpack instead of a suit-case for all travel ever since then.  Much easier to run/maneuver in.