Poll: Should public schools be abolished?

[wmenorr67]

Do you have any insight as to why the Pano district does better for less money?

I would guess smaller, rural type setting where the whole community is involved with the schools.

[MillCreek]

I would guess smaller, rural type setting where the whole community is involved with the schools.

I Googled and could not find a Pano, Texas or a Pano School District.  I wonder if he meant Plano, Texas, which seems to be a pretty wealthy area.  If this is the district in question, I imagine that the good test scores parallel the socioeconomic level of the region.  Wikipedia says that Plano actually sends money to other less affluent school districts in accordance with a Texas law requiring this.  Huh. 

[roo_ster]

Do you have any insight as to why the Pano district does better for less money?

Many more white & asian students, many fewer black & mexican students(0).  It costs less money and you get better results from dollars spent on smarter kids with fewer behavior problems and better impulse control.

Same deal as when comparing, say, Iowa or Wisconsin to Texas.  Texas may get more performance out of black and hispanic students, but the large numbers of both relative to Iowa & Wisconsin results in poorer overall statistics.

The simple fact is, the average black score is consistently one standard deviation poorer than the average white score.  This holds true over time and test changes.  Hispanic scores fall in the middle, roughly 0.5-0.8 SD poorer than white scores (1)

I Googled and could not find a Pano, Texas or a Pano School District.  I wonder if he meant Plano, Texas, which seems to be a pretty wealthy area.  If this is the district in question, I imagine that the good test scores parallel the socioeconomic level of the region.  Wikipedia says that Plano actually sends money to other less affluent school districts in accordance with a Texas law requiring this.  Huh. 

Yes, "Plano" is the correct spelling.

They call it "Robin Hood."  Not popular with the folks who get kicked in the jimmy.  At least DISD can build larger football & basketball facilities with the money to better serve as farm/feeder teams for the NFL & NCAA.





(0) This is changing, though.  The days of native whites and immigrant asian tech sector parents pounding their fists on the table at school board meetings, insisting on academic excellence, and getting the school board to hop are coming to a close.  The destruction of the urban housing projects, combined with increased illegal immigration have shifted them to where housing is cheaper.  Places like Plano.  There was a last gasp of the asian immigrant community in my town this last school board election.  He couldn't manage against the money & organization of the educrats, who see the illegals and their needs as their best source of gravy...and pushy damnably smart asian immigrants great big PITAs.  When teachers "Teach to the middle" and the middle droops lower & lower, academically, due to an influx of Oaxacans, it is the sharp natives and second-gen asians who take it in the face.  This is why places like Frisco and McKinney have grown.


(1) Much effort has gone into making this go away, but to no avail.  The delta in percentage who pass whatever standardized test is given can be manipulated, with the extremes (very easy or very hard) showing the smallest percentile gaps.  A mildly entertaining post explains the data here:
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/adverse.htm

More on the topic can be found here:
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Like most other places beloved by lefty hipsters (Portland, OR; Madison, WI) as wonderful places to live, Austin is majority white.  "Keep Austin Weird" means "keeping out the scary minorities," it looks like.

IIRC, that's the European way. Middle class/wealthy people live in town, poor/minorities live outside.

[Viking]

IIRC, that's the European way. Middle class/wealthy people live in town, poor/minorities live outside.

In some places, yes. Funny how that reflects in politics...inner city Stockholm (inside the "tolls") is white & affluent, journalists, musicians, actors, politicians, people working in high positions in various charities, community organizers and such. Our immigration policies are a *expletive deleted*ing mess, because the beautiful people seldom have to interact with the criminal elements they've imported into the country. Compare to Copenhagen, mixed up like crazy, wealthy parts right next to ghettos and islamofascist mosques (as far as I've understood it atleast)...and the Danish politicians, probably as a result, have way less tolerance for idiocy than our do.

[Perd Hapley]

Private standardized tests already exist in England. They are a fact. I have taken one.

The best-known and most significant standardized tests in America are privately run. SAT and ACT. I think it's safe to say that they affect home school curricula.

No. No. Sorry.

You've already asserted my first point, and on the second point you are factually wrong. I hope it's not flame-fanning or pot-stirring to point that out.

[Perd Hapley]

It looks like the complete abolition of public schooling enjoys the support of more than 25% of the members here. The most popular option is to return the schools to local government support only.

[makattak]

It looks like the complete abolition of public schooling enjoys the support of more than 25% of the members here. The most popular option is to return the schools to local government support only.

And ~87% support getting the Federal Government out of schooling entirely.

[makattak]

And ~87% support getting the Federal Government out of schooling entirely.

(Libertarian members: take note of this and learn to argue for INCREMENTAL changes that will get broad support. You know, like getting the Federal Government out of schooling entirely. That's a nice first step towards your goals. Or, since this forum is defenitely not a representative sample of the country, how about decreasing Federal involvement to start? Maybe giving up control. Maybe something like vouchers that further rips control away from government.)

[cordex]

Public pedagogy predictably produces piss poor pupils.  Like it or not, public education continually moves toward the lowest common denominator.

Additionally, actual education is a very small part of what modern public schools do.

Schools in my state are now in some cases serving three meals a day to the students.  Initially, students were served lunch because they were at school over the lunch hour.  Then some kids weren't getting a breakfast because mom and dad didn't want to get up early enough to prepare a bowl of cereal, so schools started serving breakfast.  Then someone decided that kids weren't getting the right dinners, so that somehow became the State's job too.  Except in a vanishingly small number of homes, it is not an issue of being able to put food on the table for the kids.

As with so many other things, we may look around us and say "Look how poor a job everyone does with __X__, they certainly can't be trusted to plan and provide for __Y__," the truth is that if people are not given responsibility (and are allowed to fail if they choose to), you will stunt their growth and they will not develop the capacity for it.  Just as if you tie your kids shoes every single time, they won't ever learn, when you make the State raise kids, some folks will simply stop trying to do so on their own.  Worse, the kids that are supposed to benefit the most from the public education will still fail because until we start completely turning our kids over to the State at the age of six and getting a general issue adult twelve years later (only partially kidding here) lack of parenting and educational support at home can completely offset whatever benefit public education provides.

[longeyes]

Two words: Khan Academy.

http://www.khanacademy.org/video/salman-khan-talk-at-ted-2011--from-ted-com?playlist=Khan+Academy-Related+Talks+and+Interviews

[Jamisjockey]

(Libertarian members: take note of this and learn to argue for INCREMENTAL changes that will get broad support. You know, like getting the Federal Government out of schooling entirely. That's a nice first step towards your goals. Or, since this forum is defenitely not a representative sample of the country, how about decreasing Federal involvement to start? Maybe giving up control. Maybe something like vouchers that further rips control away from government.)

One of the reasons I'm leary of vouchers is that I'm worried the fed.gov will decide that with vouchers comes increased federal oversight of private schools.  Just putting that out there.   

[MicroBalrog]

One of the reasons I'm leary of vouchers is that I'm worried the fed.gov will decide that with vouchers comes increased federal oversight of private schools.  Just putting that out there.   

You mean, like has already happened in Europe?

Nah, couldn't be.

[Jamisjockey]

You mean, like has already happened in Europe?

Nah, couldn't be.

I was unaware of it happening in Europe but am unsurprised.  


Here's how I see it

Federally allowed/mandated vouchers
Then, private schools get told they can't be discriminatory at all on who they allow to use vouchers.
Then, private schools get told they have to give up some of their cirriculum control  to the federal goobermint.

Just sayin.   



The Federal government has no right, nor constitutional authority, to regulate education in this country.  Especially not primary education, as no interstate commerce occurs in the process.  A weak case could be made for Secondary education, as students cross state lines sometimes to get education.  But that's a weak, shitty case at best.