Author Topic: This is how I know Obama will win.  (Read 11660 times)

MicroBalrog

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2012, 02:20:44 AM »
Yes. If I have to pay a certain % of my income (above 30% now) then everyone, regardless of income needs to pay into the kitty. Personally I'd like to see a flat percentage or national sales tax. That way everyone pays. This crap of "oh, you only made XX this year, you dont owe taxes (and in some cases get money back)" and with others "oh you made this much, you owe enough to choke a horse". Fair would be everybody pays the same percentage. Period

I agree that income taxes are to be made flat. But I do not think that - in the circumstance that taxes are not flat - that people who earn an honest living and owe less taxes than they owe are somehow stealing from you.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2012, 04:09:45 AM »
While it might not properly be considered stealing I don't care to subsidize "refunding" someone more taxes than they actually paid in. Not actually living here to see it first hand I can understand your not "getting it".
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MicroBalrog

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2012, 04:15:43 AM »
While it might not properly be considered stealing I don't care to subsidize "refunding" someone more taxes than they actually paid in. Not actually living here to see it first hand I can understand your not "getting it".

I do not understand. Are you talking about  people getting some fictionalizd "tax refund" (actually a government handout by a new name) or people just plain not owing taxes?
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2012, 04:40:38 AM »
Mostly the former. There are some classifications that justifiably don't owe any taxes.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2012, 04:45:22 AM »
Mostly the former. There are some classifications that justifiably don't owe any taxes.

I justifiably don't owe any income taxes. I earn less money than where the lowermost tax bracket starts. I don't see how I owe anybody to start earning more money just so the state could steal it.


(Of course I pay 17% VAT on everything I buy).
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mtnbkr

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2012, 07:12:11 AM »
Micro, this will make your head explode.

An acquaintance of mine and his wife are musicians in the Army band.  They are stationed in the DC Metro area and don't see combat.  They have two kids and a small, but nice house.  I don't know their salaries, but based on their spending habits, I would guess at least a combined 6 figure income.  He has multiple, expensive bikes (he's a very avid cyclist, which is how I know him).  Some of his bikes are expensive to the point it would make your eyes bleed if you saw the price tag.  He recently (in the past year or two) bought a new car, not an econobox, but a fairly nice Subaru.  He's also a gadget-hound (iToys, etc).  I point all this out to draw the picture of a comfortable middle-class, maybe upper middle-class lifestyle.

They are raging lefties.  He always claims we as Americans don't pay enough taxes.  When I suggest he take some of the money he spends on expensive bikes and send that to the US Treasury as a donation to the tax pool (they actually have a process for this), he says it wouldn't do any good because the money wouldn't go where it is needed.

Here's the kicker.

After doing taxes last year, he found out they got a refund $100 GREATER than their total tax liability.  In other words, this comfortable middle class family who claims we all don't pay enough taxes got more money back as a refund than they paid in taxes.

Pick your jaw up off the floor.

I paid in a 5-figure sum and got a 3-figure sum as a refund.

Chris

wmenorr67

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2012, 08:18:50 AM »
Chris if you were to tell me there ranks, if you know that information and the zip code to where they live, I can get you within a few dollars of their combined income.
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mtnbkr

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2012, 09:04:05 AM »
I think he's a Captain, but I'm not certain.  Dunno about wifey.  I don't know the zip, but they're in Fairfax County (or maybe Arlington).  In either case, they live in fairly expensive parts of NoVa.

Chris

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2012, 09:59:24 AM »
I too have some liberal friends who think people who make a lot of $$ should pay more in taxes only because they make more $$.  No other reason. Now these friends also do not make enough $$ to owe income tax. Yet they get $$ back, due to having four kids and other tax credits (income redistribution). 

its simple. get rid of the IRS and have either a flat percentage tax or national sales tax. but for Pete sakes,get rid of the IRS.
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wmenorr67

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2012, 10:03:23 AM »
Well a CPT with over 8 years of service has a taxable income of $5536 a month and BAH rates with dependents is $2742 a month and that isn't taxable.  Add in another $240 or so for BAS which is non taxable also.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

mtnbkr

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2012, 10:09:59 AM »
No idea what BAH and BAS is.  Just the taxable portion alone is $66k/year.  X2 means a comfortable existence in NoVa even with a family of 4 (we're a family of 4 as well and our kids are about the same age as his).

Chris

roo_ster

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2012, 10:47:13 AM »
Yes. If I have to pay a certain % of my income (above 30% now) then everyone, regardless of income needs to pay into the kitty. Personally I'd like to see a flat percentage or national sales tax. That way everyone pays. This crap of "oh, you only made XX this year, you dont owe taxes (and in some cases get money back)" and with others "oh you made this much, you owe enough to choke a horse". Fair would be everybody pays the same percentage absolute dollar amount. Period

Now, THAT's fair.

Fed budget of X.  Number of adults is Y.  X/Y=everybody's slice of the poo-poo pie.
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roo_ster

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roo_ster

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2012, 10:48:10 AM »
No idea what BAH and BAS is.  Just the taxable portion alone is $66k/year.  X2 means a comfortable existence in NoVa even with a family of 4 (we're a family of 4 as well and our kids are about the same age as his).

Chris

IIRC, BAH=off-base housing and BAS=providing your own chow, rather than getting it in the chow hall.
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roo_ster

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wmenorr67

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2012, 10:51:46 AM »
You are correct roo_ster on the meanings of BAH and BAS.  The way it works in the military for BAH for dual military couples the highest ranking one will get BAH at the with dependents rate and then the other would draw BAH at the without dependents rate.  So if the wife is a lower rank than the husband she will get a lower amount.  BAH is based on zip code.  Both individuals will draw the BAS.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Ben

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2012, 11:09:55 AM »
Micro - From my point of view at least, it's not that someone is working hard but not paying taxes. It's that in a system where everyone is (rightly or wrongly) supposed to pay taxes, a large segment of society (usually lower middle class and lower) pays no taxes. Our tax system creates different philosophies depending on where you are in the tax structure. If I'm making $20K a year, getting all my tax money back, and a politician tells me he's going to increase taxes "on those rich folks" so I can continue to live tax free, who am I going to vote for?

I'd love to not pay taxes. I'd love to pay less taxes. But because I pay taxes, I'm not so easily swayed into the "I'll raise taxes on the other guy so you pay less" argument. Tomorrow I may be the other guy. I have skin in the game so I realize this. Someone who pays no taxes (or even gets more money back than was deducted) has no skin in the game. Even if that $20K earner paid only $1000 in taxes, I'm betting their political philosophy would change.

The government would never be able to get its money this way, but I have always said the best way to get everyone to understand the raping they're getting is to pay taxes the way business owners have to -- write a check to the government every quarter. Payroll deductions are like anesthesia for most wage earners -- since they never see the money it's never really there to them. Especially in modern society, where most people get electronic paychecks. I'm willing to bet 75% of them never log in to their payroll accounts to look at how much was deducted. They just see the net pay show up in their bank accounts and they're good to go.
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longeyes

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2012, 11:12:18 AM »
What this Election is all about is how much **** the people who built and maintain America are willing to take.  Everyone is giving the electoral process one more good ol' college try, but if Obama proves in November that the game is up because the culture of America is irreversibly deformed then good Americans will have to face the real "electoral" choice: embrace their serfdom or separate themselves from the insanity.  The same is true is Romney shows himself to be just a paler Obama, that the Tea Party cannot move him starboard.  There is no future for a "united" America unless we are willing to accept a complete obliteration of all the core values on which this nation was founded.
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Chuck Dye

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2012, 11:48:05 AM »
...

Here's the kicker.
...
After doing taxes last year, he found out they got a refund $100 GREATER than their total tax liability.  In other words, this comfortable middle class family who claims we all don't pay enough taxes got more money back as a refund than they paid in taxes.

I paid in a 5-figure sum and got a 3-figure sum as a refund.

Chris

I, too, received a refund a little greater than my tax bill. Unless I am misunderstanding, you describe that he, and you, are, as I am, over-withheld and need to adjust the W-4.  Any of us who get refunds are lending money at 0% interest.  I get sneered at by a friend who claims far more dependents than he supports and writes a small check each April, usually boasting about "no stinking interest free loans."

It is left as an exercise for the student to discover how much the "float" is on over-withheld income. =D
Gee, I'd love to see your data!

TommyGunn

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2012, 11:48:41 AM »

So do you effectively say that because I work an honest job, but because I am not taxed through income tax, I am a leech on society?

I do not understand. I thought that people wh work honest jobs for honest pay are upstanding members of our community.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

Good grief.  GET A LIFE.
A "moocher" is someone who subsists on $$$$ given to him by the government, which are in turn, taken from workers in the form of taxes.  It's called "welfare" or "being on the publiuc dole."
As YOU have a job, YOU are NOT a moocher.  How much you are taxed is nongermain to this issue.....


Sorry if I got snippy .... but, REALLY.
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zxcvbob

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2012, 11:55:11 AM »
Quote
How much you are taxed is nongermain to this issue.....

WHAT DO THE GERMANS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
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TommyGunn

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2012, 11:59:30 AM »
WHAT DO THE GERMANS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?
:facepalm:

"nongermain"  = "irrelevant."
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 05:29:35 PM by TommyGunn »
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Tallpine

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2012, 12:00:08 PM »
Now, THAT's fair.

Fed budget of X.  Number of adults is Y.  X/Y=everybody's slice of the poo-poo pie.

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So ... what do you do with those who can't pay  ???
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Fitz

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2012, 12:21:06 PM »
I think there's some confusion in this thread.

I think most of us would agree that anyone who RECEIVES more from the federal government in tax refunds/welfare than they paid in... THAT's a leech. Not someone who gets a refund.


So, you pay 10k in taxes, get a 1000 dollar refund... Not a leech, your contribution was 9k.

Pay 4k in taxes, get 8k refund

Leech.


Seems pretty simple.
Fitz

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mtnbkr

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2012, 12:29:47 PM »
Unless I misunderstood what my acquaintance was saying, he did the latter.  Paid X, got X+Y back in a refund.

Chris

Fitz

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2012, 12:32:07 PM »
Seems unlikely for a married military couple, but possible I guess.
Fitz

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mtnbkr

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Re: This is how I know Obama will win.
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2012, 12:49:46 PM »
Not being military, I don't know what is deductible or not.  I assume they get the typical kid deductions, mortgage deductions, etc.  Beyond that, I dunno.

Chris