Author Topic: The Housing Market Thing  (Read 10818 times)

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2007, 03:47:53 PM »
My take on it is that we're days, no, minutes away from the entire nation losing faith in the dollar.

Revolution will follow, until someone comes forth to lead us back into the light and base our currency on zinc.

Lose faith in the dollar?  You're just a coward, Irwin.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2007, 04:25:07 PM »
Quote
Revolution will follow, until someone comes forth to lead us back into the light and base our currency on zinc.

Taking the High Road here.  That's a cowardly assessment on your part, Mike!

And it blows my chickens 'n eggs post-apocalypse financial strategy completely out of the water. Time to fire up the grill and have a barbeque, I guess.

Hmm, maybe I can barter in ammunition when the time comes... 

Guess I'd better ask Mercedesrules what he would do.  grin
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

thebaldguy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2007, 04:57:09 PM »
I don't have much symphathy for those who are losing their homes because they bought too much house. They poked fun at me for buying an inner city duplex 13 years ago for under $80000.00.  It's only a few more years until it's paid off. They paid $400000.00 + for their starter castles, and they are losing them. My house is now valued at $230000.00 Why? Demand is always great for houses by the local university. No one can afford or qualify for the suburban starter mansions.

Swiss time is running out on their unaffordable lifestyles. Their unrestrained spending and lack of savings are catching up.

By the way, there's already folks asking for a Fed bailout of the mortgage/lending business.

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,534
  • I Am Inimical
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2007, 05:30:02 PM »
My take on it is that we're days, no, minutes away from the entire nation losing faith in the dollar.

Revolution will follow, until someone comes forth to lead us back into the light and base our currency on zinc.

Lose faith in the dollar?  You're just a coward, Irwin.

Yeah?

I'm brave enough to have 50 metric tons of zinc in my basement.

I'm either set for life, or I'll be able to make one hell of a lot of batteries.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

MattC

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2007, 06:07:02 PM »
Here's a good article on the issue, and talks a little about what thebaldguy mentioned regarding legislative intervention:

NY Times: Irresponsible Mortgages Have Opened Doors to Many of the Excluded

Quote
Irresponsible Mortgages Have Opened Doors to Many of the Excluded

Article Tools Sponsored By
By AUSTAN GOOLSBEE
Published: March 29, 2007

We are sitting on a time bomb, the mortgage analyst said  a huge increase in unconventional home loans like balloon mortgages taken out by consumers who cannot qualify for regular mortgages. The high payments, he continued, are just beginning to come due and a lot of people who were betting interest rates would come down by now risk losing their homes because they cant pay the debt.

He would have given great testimony at the current Senate hearings on subprime mortgage lending. The only problem is, he said it in 1981  when soon after several of the alternative mortgage products like those with adjustable rates and balloons first became popular.

When Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut, gave his opening statement last week at the hearings lambasting the rise of risky exotic and subprime mortgages, he was actually tapping into a very old vein of suspicion against innovations in the mortgage market.

Almost every new form of mortgage lending  from adjustable-rate mortgages to home equity lines of credit to no-money-down mortgages  has tended to expand the pool of people who qualify but has also been greeted by a large number of people saying that it harms consumers and will fool people into thinking they can afford homes that they cannot.

Congress is contemplating a serious tightening of regulations to make the new forms of lending more difficult. New research from some of the leading housing economists in the country, however, examines the long history of mortgage market innovations and suggests that regulators should be mindful of the potential downside in tightening too much.

A study conducted by Kristopher Gerardi and Paul S. Willen from the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston and Harvey S. Rosen of Princeton, Do Households Benefit from Financial Deregulation and Innovation? The Case of the Mortgage Market (National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper 12967), shows that the three decades from 1970 to 2000 witnessed an incredible flowering of new types of home loans. These innovations mainly served to give people power to make their own decisions about housing, and they ended up being quite sensible with their newfound access to capital.

These economists followed thousands of people over their lives and examined the evidence for whether mortgage markets have become more efficient over time. Lost in the current discussion about borrowers income levels in the subprime market is the fact that someone with a low income now but who stands to earn much more in the future would, in a perfect market, be able to borrow from a bank to buy a house. That is how economists view the efficiency of a capital market: peoples decisions unrestricted by the amount of money they have right now.

And this study shows that measured this way, the mortgage market has become more perfect, not more irresponsible. People tend to make good decisions about their own economic prospects. As Professor Rosen said in an interview, Our findings suggest that people make sensible housing decisions in that the size of house they buy today relates to their future income, not just their current income and that the innovations in mortgages over 30 years gave many people the opportunity to own a home that they would not have otherwise had, just because they didnt have enough assets in the bank at the moment they needed the house.

Of course, basing loans on future earnings expectations is riskier than lending money to prime borrowers at 30-year fixed interest rates. That is why interest rates are higher for subprime borrowers and for big mortgages that require little money down. Sometimes the risks flop. Sometimes people even have to sell their properties because they cannot make the numbers work.

The traditional causes of foreclosure, even before there was subprime lending, were job loss, divorce and major medical expenses. And the national foreclosure data seem to suggest that these issues remain paramount. The latest numbers show that foreclosures have been concentrated not in places where real estate bubbles have supposedly been popping, but rather in places whose economies have stagnated  the hurricane-torn communities on the Gulf of Mexico and the industrial Midwest states like Ohio, Michigan and Indiana, where the domestic auto industry has suffered. These do not automatically point to subprime lending as the leading cause of foreclosure problems.

Also, the historical evidence suggests that cracking down on new mortgages may hit exactly the wrong people. As Professor Rosen explains, The main thing that innovations in the mortgage market have done over the past 30 years is to let in the excluded: the young, the discriminated against, the people without a lot of money in the bank to use for a down payment. It has allowed them access to mortgages whereas lenders would have once just turned them away.

The Center for Responsible Lending estimated that in 2005, a majority of home loans to African-Americans and 40 percent of home loans to Hispanics were subprime loans. The existence and spread of subprime lending helps explain the drastic growth of homeownership for these same groups. Since 1995, for example, the number of African-American households has risen by about 20 percent, but the number of African-American homeowners has risen almost twice that rate, by about 35 percent. For Hispanics, the number of households is up about 45 percent and the number of homeowning households is up by almost 70 percent.

And do not forget that the vast majority of even subprime borrowers have been making their payments. Indeed, fewer than 15 percent of borrowers in this most risky group have even been delinquent on a payment, much less defaulted.

When contemplating ways to prevent excessive mortgages for the 13 percent of subprime borrowers whose loans go sour, regulators must be careful that they do not wreck the ability of the other 87 percent to obtain mortgages.

For be it ever so humble, there really is no place like home, even if it does come with a balloon payment mortgage.

Austan Goolsbee is a professor of economics at the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business and a research fellow at the American Bar Foundation. E-mail: goolsbee@nytimes.com.

I like that Mr. Goolsbee mentions how these different types of mortgages have been good for many people, as carebear pointed out in reply #32.  This article reasserts what has been under discussion here: the problems have arisen from irresponsible lenders and short-sighted borrowers, not from maliciously designed lending schemes.  So why should the government be "contemplating a serious tightening of regulations to make the new forms of lending more difficult"?

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2007, 06:08:13 PM »
My take on it is that we're days, no, minutes away from the entire nation losing faith in the dollar.

Revolution will follow, until someone comes forth to lead us back into the light and base our currency on zinc.

Lose faith in the dollar?  You're just a coward, Irwin.

Yeah?

I'm brave enough to have 50 metric tons of zinc in my basement.

I'm either set for life, or I'll be able to make one hell of a lot of batteries.

At the very least your outboard will never corrode.  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2007, 06:28:03 PM »
The get-rich-quick "flippers" that helped drive the market up beyond what people could afford for actual homes to live in can go to hell.

The market is the market - it won't go any higher than buyers will pay, or lenders will loan.  The flippers didn't create a market increase, they simply took advantage of a market opportunity.

As for homes being higher than people can afford, no.  That's a false concept based on our ingrained (and potentially disastrous) "consumerism" mentality.  The problem isn't homes that are "too high", it's people who think they have to have more home than they can pay for.  They will mortgage themselves to the eyeballs to get into the "house they can afford" then blame everyone else for their financial troubles.  A house is a house and a price is a price.  Whether or not it is "too high" is totally dependent on the buyer's willingness to be financially honest with themselves.

Brad

And in this area, a tiny "starter house" of about 1200 sq feet or less is $300k. Anything less than that gets you a "needs work" shack in an area that may include crack dealers.

The disparity between middle class income and housing meant for the "middle class" is extremely wide.

Brad:

It is not just dumb/smart folks doing their things in the market.  The "invisible foot" of gooberment has an effect on the housing and other markets.

An example of this is the present policy in effect on illegal aliens and the city of Los Angeles.

The data tell us that LA is now a typical third-world city: huge underclass, thick crust of the affluent, and a tiny band of middle class.  The housing stock reflects this.

My company has plants in LA/OC and the employees there attest to the housing situation.  All who work there are middle class, spanning from lower middle to upper middle.  Folks who have worked there for 15-20 years are likely to live nearby. They bought when the surrounding housing stock was built for and affordable by L-U middle class.

New hires or transfers do not have the option of living near the plant.  Single folks can live closest, by ferretting out some of the few lower-priced apartments (really studios/efficiencies).  Folks with families live further out.

What drove the point home was when I was on a business trip to LA and a co-worker pointed out the rather large proportion of camper shells and serious pickup bed campers.  The deal is this: They live 2, 3, 4 hours away .  They drive in Sunday PM or 0'dark-thirty Monday.  Work during the day and then sleep in the camper at night.  Shower in the on-site gym.  Drive back Thurs PM (if your job allows flexible hours) or Friday PM. 

I am told this is not unique to my company.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #82 on: March 30, 2007, 05:29:51 AM »
I predict:
1) Screams for legislation to "protect the consumer" from "unscrupulous mortgage bankers."
2) Sen. Kennedy et al and Rep Barney Frank (Faygola-Mass) will sit bloviating in committee in front of the cameras while mortgage co executives cower in testimony trying to explain why they made the loan that cost Grandma her house.
3) A series of proposals for increasingly bad legislation to "fix" the problem, ending in compromise that will be both harmful to lenders and the public, and ineffective in fixing any actual problems.
4) Investigations into mortgage company practices, culminating in charges by ambitious states Attorneys General, ending in massive settlements by the few mortgage companies to survive their portfoli meltdown.
5) A drying up of lending in the housing market, leading to
6) A sustained downturn as buyers cannot get financing.

I've seen this play before and know how it turns out.  The fun is just starting.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

RJMcElwain

  • friend
  • New Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 66
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #83 on: March 30, 2007, 05:54:44 AM »
Quote
bloviating in committee in front of the cameras


Rabbi,

You are so right. I've always wondered if politicians bloviate when the cameras are off. And as Senator Ted keeps expending his girth, I keep waiting to see him just explode on camera someday.

As for Barney Frank, he should never bloviate on financial issues. I remember him trying to interrogate Alan Greenspan once. Pathetic.

Bob
Robert J. McElwain
Practical Libertarian

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." ~Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950)

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #84 on: March 30, 2007, 06:50:28 AM »
Some folks think they can legislate away "stupid."  Making the world safe for the dim-witted drives those who do the societal/economic heavy-lifting into less-productive ventures.

The best thing gooberment can "do" is:
1. Stop implementing more regulation.  "Don't just do something! Stand there!"
2. Cut off the flow of illegals (by enforcing existing law).  Fewer illegals hopping the border would mean lower property taxes (making the real cost of housing lower), lower crime rates (lowered insurance premiums), and less competition for housing stock (reducing demand usually results in lowerd market price).

Sadly, it seems a goodly number of folks want third-world demographics in the USA.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Art Eatman

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,442
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #85 on: March 30, 2007, 06:54:47 AM »
Good predictions, Rabbi.

From the article:  Congress is contemplating a serious tightening of regulations to make the new forms of lending more difficult.

Yeah, right.  "They stole the horse!  Lock the barn!"

If you make lending more difficult, does that make borrowing easier? Cheesy

The American Way:  "I don't care what it costs; what are the payments?"

Art
The American Indians learned what happens when you don't control immigration.

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2007, 07:33:32 AM »
Quote
The American Way:  "I don't care what it costs; what are the payments?"

There's nothing inherently wrong with that "Way", as long as you have a financial plan that takes advantage of it.  "Cost" only matters if the end goal is actual ownership.

Maximizing an income property but plan to sell in 7-10 years as maintenance costs start to rise?  Go for the lowest payment.

Buying a home with the express idea you'll be upgrading or moving in only a few years? (which in a country where the average "churn rate" in business is 7 years makes sense)  Go for the lowest payment.

Like leasing a car, if you can find tax and lifestyle advantages in treating your home costs as a month-to-month expense instead of a long-term capital investment, good for you.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2007, 07:35:27 AM »
Some folks think they can legislate away "stupid."  Making the world safe for the dim-witted drives those who do the societal/economic heavy-lifting into less-productive ventures.

The best thing gooberment can "do" is:
1. Stop implementing more regulation.  "Don't just do something! Stand there!"
2. Cut off the flow of illegals (by enforcing existing law).  Fewer illegals hopping the border would mean lower property taxes (making the real cost of housing lower), lower crime rates (lowered insurance premiums), and less competition for housing stock (reducing demand usually results in lowerd market price).

Sadly, it seems a goodly number of folks want third-world demographics in the USA.


One more. END the Section 8 subsidized housing debacle that's destroyed entire parts of cities, turning suburbs into Hood/Barrio 2.0s and making absentee landlords rich, all on the taxpayer dime.

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2007, 07:45:02 AM »
Good point Maned,

From the other side of the coin, I had one tenant who was Section 8 and she and her brats trashed my place.  The rent was higher than her check and she began to be late with and finally quit paying the overage.  I finally got her out, having to fight the "tenant's rights" BS the whole way with Sec. 8 not lifting a finger to help.

Dirtbag deadbeats with no respect for other people's property.  I, like a lot of landlords with decent and maintained properties, will now, no matter how worthy their need, rent to Section 8 anymore.  That lady, who seemed all "looking for a hand up, not a handout (LIAR)" ruined it for all the rest, good folks and bad.

I can understand why those absentee landlords let their properties run down and just pocket the money.  Decent individuals notwithstanding, the Section 8 clients bring their crappy living conditions down on their own heads.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #89 on: March 30, 2007, 07:50:13 AM »
Good point Maned,

From the other side of the coin, I had one tenant who was Section 8 and she and her brats trashed my place.  The rent was higher than her check and she began to be late with and finally quit paying the overage.  I finally got her out, having to fight the "tenant's rights" BS the whole way with Sec. 8 not lifting a finger to help.

Dirtbag deadbeats with no respect for other people's property.  I, like a lot of landlords with decent and maintained properties, will now, no matter how worthy their need, rent to Section 8 anymore.  That lady, who seemed all "looking for a hand up, not a handout (LIAR)" ruined it for all the rest, good folks and bad.

I can understand why those absentee landlords let their properties run down and just pocket the money.  Decent individuals notwithstanding, the Section 8 clients bring their crappy living conditions down on their own heads.

The problem is more the landlords who buy up older rowhouses or such, don't maintain them, declare "ahh, section 8!....$2000 a month!" ...Government pays $1800 or so of that, tenant pays $200. They don't screen the tenants. Tenants are likely to be anything from drug dealers to illegals to members of the Crips or Latin Kings. Neighborhood becomes a cacophony of blaring music, gunshots, 3am domestic violence and arguments and police visits, buildings further trashed, remaining original residents burglarized and terrorized, end result urban blight, a "bad area".

I really like what one lady said whose formerly nice neighborhood went Section 8 said..."We worked really hard to get out of the ghetto. We didn't think it'd follow us here."

Even country-club-like apartment complexes have been taken over by gangs and dealers directly due to section 8. It's a horrifying failure and should be terminated immediately...it's paying the financially failed to live in often BETTER conditions than the hardworking sorts! ...and then they trash the place, too.

I don't blame you for not accepting it. To me, it means you're a good landlord who actually cares about the original residents and doesn't want them beaten or shot.


Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2007, 08:05:59 AM »
Well, I only have a tri-plex and it's in a very nice middle class neighborhood.

One tenant is a redneck ex-coworker and the other a former Marine biker.  My neighbor is one of my best friends, also a Marine buddy.

They wouldn't let me rent to anyone unsuitable.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #91 on: March 30, 2007, 08:15:32 AM »
Actually anyone convicted of drug dealing is ineligible for Section 8.  Even to live in one.
I'd suggest some research before spewing opinions.  BUt this is the internet.

I had 2 Section 8 tenants.  Both of them were terrible, one disasterously so.  It's a bad program simply because people value what they have to pay for.  If it's free, they don't value it. Doesn't matter that they live there.  They will treat it like dog poop if they're not paying.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #92 on: March 30, 2007, 08:22:24 AM »
Actually anyone convicted of drug dealing is ineligible for Section 8.  Even to live in one.
I'd suggest some research before spewing opinions.  BUt this is the internet.

Yes, so deadbeat welfare mom, with no convictions, does the actual rental, and then the extended family of dealers deals out of there.

That's hard to envision?

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,534
  • I Am Inimical
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #93 on: March 30, 2007, 08:30:17 AM »
Actually anyone convicted of drug dealing is ineligible for Section 8.  Even to live in one.
I'd suggest some research before spewing opinions.  BUt this is the internet.

Yes, so deadbeat welfare mom, with no convictions, does the actual rental, and then the extended family of dealers deals out of there.

That's hard to envision?


Oh, NO, Manedwolf.

That NEVER happens.

Except in the Section 8 frigging co-op down the street from me.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #94 on: March 30, 2007, 08:33:45 AM »
Actually anyone convicted of drug dealing is ineligible for Section 8.  Even to live in one.
I'd suggest some research before spewing opinions.  BUt this is the internet.

Yes, so deadbeat welfare mom, with no convictions, does the actual rental, and then the extended family of dealers deals out of there.

That's hard to envision?

Not at all.  I said it wasn't supposed to.  Not that it didnt happen.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2007, 08:46:09 AM »
Quote
Not at all.  I said it wasn't supposed to.  Not that it didnt happen.

Left something out Rabbi.

Quote
Not at all.  I said it wasn't supposed to. Not that it didnt happen, all the frikkin' time!

There, fixed it.  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,226
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: The Housing Market Thing
« Reply #96 on: March 30, 2007, 10:43:36 AM »
Well, I gotta buck the trend. I've had two Section 8 tenants (currently still have one of them) and they've both been impeccable tenants. Section 8 being County run, maybe each program works a bit differently by region? Where I am my units are inspected regularly. I'll get dinged on little stuff like "squeaky closet door" that I have to fix, but the tenants get warnings if there is even the slightest damage or if the place doesn't look well kept. If they don't fix damage or improve houskeeping, Section 8 kicks them out of my unit as well as the Section 8 program.

Of course I'm also very picky on who I take in, to the point of, given tenant-centric CA laws, probably having someone I've denied being able to take me to court. On the plus side, being picky has given me great tenants, and the last time I had to advertise a unit was six years ago.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."