Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on September 16, 2017, 02:43:30 PM
-
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/farmington-hills-teacher-accused-of-assaulting-6th-grader-who-sat-during-pledge-of-allegiance
Sixth grader pulls an NFL and declines to stand during the pledge of allegiance at school. Teacher tries to make him stand up -- parents claim assault.
His father addressed the district directly during their last board meeting.
"It's his choice to sit," Brian Chaney said. "I don't make him sit. And they should respect that."
Why should they respect that?
"If they're [referring to the U.S. Marines, a reference to the preceding paragraph] fighting for freedom, they're fighting for us to have choices," Brian Chaney said. "Then it's our choice."
If your choice is not not declare allegiance to the country that's giving you these freedoms, then IMHO your "choice" is that you are not a United States citizen (or lawful resident) and that you should leave, or be deported. The pledge is not just to the flag, it's to the flag and to the republic for which it stands. It's the republic that gives you the freedoms you claim to be exercising. If you can't bring yourself to show respect for the republic, then why should the republic respect you?
[signed] Grumpy old Vietnam veteran
-
Negative Ghostrider, You're 100% wrong on this.
It is, both morally and legally, that youngster's right not to stand or to pledge allegiance to the US. He gets to stay, and he's still a citizen. A country that requires you to pledge yourself to it to be a citizen can't call itself free. Furthermore, what the hell good is a forced declaration of allegiance? You couldn't possibly expect someone to stand by a coerced pledge. I wouldn't.
Having schoolchildren stand and make a pledge they are unqualified to understand the significance of is one of the creepier things we do as a country. If this kid has thought about it enough to decide he does not wish to pledge himself to the US, that's his absolute right, and I hope he at least appreciates that he lives somewhere he has the ability to make that decision. As a proud American, what we should be doing is asking the youngster why he feels he shouldn't recite the pledge, and either educating him on the uniqueness of the U.S., or helping him figure out ways he can help fix the faults he perceives. That's how you make involved citizens, not browbeating them into mouthing empty platitudes* to their teachers.
*If you browbeat the kid into saying it, then that pledge is an empty platitude.
-
Calling it assault is going way too far. However, I am a bit shocked that the school was still doing the Pledge.
That said, standing doesn't mean he is pledging anything. The school orders him around all day long and he goes along with it. Making an issue over standing/sitting at this point is silly.
-
Very well said, dogmush.
-
"If this kid has thought about it enough to decide he does not wish to pledge himself to the US, that's his absolute right,"
Odds are this kid hasn't thought 2 whits about it. He saw some football player doing it and he thought it was cool and so he did it too.
-
"If this kid has thought about it enough to decide he does not wish to pledge himself to the US, that's his absolute right,"
Odds are this kid hasn't thought 2 whits about it. He saw some football player doing it and he thought it was cool and so he did it too.
Agreed. Also guarantee the kids reciting haven't expended two Whit's on that action either. I would be more worried about my kid finding Kapernick a role model than not saying a pledge.
Also agree it is creepy as hell to make kids do this. I did, no real deep understanding involved, we always thought the Jehovah's kids were weird because they didn't, but it certainly didn't make me American. I put a whole ton more stock in the six times I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. I'm just retired enlisted scum now, but to me it is still no different than a commission, I didn't swear to an expiration date.
-
When I was in elementary school, we had two Jehovah's Witnesses who left the room when we had the pledge.
Chris
-
When I was in elementary school, we had two Jehovah's Witnesses who left the room when we had the pledge.
Chris
They were just travelling to the other classrooms, handing out pamphlets.
-
Odds are this kid hasn't thought 2 whits about it. He saw some football player doing it and he thought it was cool and so he did it too.
He clearly stated his own priorities:
"I don't stand because I don't pledge to a flag," Stone said. "I pledge to God and family."
No matter how angry an adult gets for whatever reason, it's always wrong to put your hands on someone else's child.
-
If your choice is not not declare allegiance to the country that's giving you these freedoms, then IMHO your "choice" is that you are not a United States citizen (or lawful resident) and that you should leave, or be deported. The pledge is not just to the flag, it's to the flag and to the republic for which it stands. It's the republic that gives you the freedoms you claim to be exercising. If you can't bring yourself to show respect for the republic, then why should the republic respect you?
In regards to adults I've come to agree with this more and more, and not just not standing but things like burning the flag etc. The flag is a representation of our form of government. When they want to actively see it destroyed, *expletive deleted*ck'em.
However, I am a bit shocked that the school was still doing the Pledge.
I am too. I vaguely remember doing it in grade school. Don't remember when we no longer did it.
-
What Dogmush said.
Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk
-
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/farmington-hills-teacher-accused-of-assaulting-6th-grader-who-sat-during-pledge-of-allegiance
Sixth grader pulls an NFL and declines to stand during the pledge of allegiance at school. Teacher tries to make him stand up -- parents claim assault.
Why should they respect that?
If your choice is not not declare allegiance to the country that's giving you these freedoms, then IMHO your "choice" is that you are not a United States citizen (or lawful resident) and that you should leave, or be deported. The pledge is not just to the flag, it's to the flag and to the republic for which it stands. It's the republic that gives you the freedoms you claim to be exercising. If you can't bring yourself to show respect for the republic, then why should the republic respect you?
[signed] Grumpy old Vietnam veteran
I personally avoid it, if at all possible. Depending on context I'll say it to avoid giving offense, in most venues. It's not like I'm being forced to say the shahada.
-
Students don't have to say the pledge that has been established for a long time. The teacher is wrong.
-
I suppose grumpy old vets don't care that the pledge was written by socialists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy) and was accompanied by a salute very similar to the Nazi salute (https://boingboing.net/2016/09/10/a-socialist-wrote-the-pledge-o.html)?
It's ok though because we're worshiping pledging allegiance to the 'merican flag!
Chris
-
It would seem that the Pledge nowadays has no more meaning than the Oath of Office most of our politicos take.
"Here, just say this and you're good to go."