The Catholic church now opposes the death penalty

[MillCreek]

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/02/634864608/catholic-church-now-formally-opposes-death-penalty-in-all-cases?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20180802

The Pope has been speaking out against the death penalty in recent years. 

[Scout26]

And like a good (Cafeteria)* Catholic, Gov. Cuomo of New York stands in solidarity with the Pope on this issue.

Now do abortion, Gov. Cuomo...


https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/08/02/gov-andrew-cuomo-in-solidarity-with-the-pope-on-the-death-penalty-abortion-not-so-much/



* - A phrase a heard a while back to describe a Catholic who picks and chooses which parts of the church's doctrine they choose to follow.

[Ron]

Our evil government shouldn’t have the power of the death penalty anymore.

They aren’t to be trusted with life and death.

[Hawkmoon]

Our evil government shouldn’t have the power of the death penalty anymore.

They aren’t to be trusted with life and death.

I'm coming around to agree with you. I used to favor the death penalty, but The Innocence Project has proven that unless the killer is literally and conclusively caught in the act, too many innocent people have been convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

On the other side, prisons shouldn't be allowed to be training grounds for future crimes.

[Ben]

Our evil government shouldn’t have the power of the death penalty anymore.

They aren’t to be trusted with life and death.

I'm also a former "hang 'em high" guy. Now I want multiple, corroborated sources, preferably with video or other irrefutable evidence. If the evidence is not as concrete as the law of gravity, then no.

It's bad enough that you have people spending 20 years in prison before DNA proves them innocent. You can cut them a $5 million check for the mistake, but it will never fix them from having to live through that.

[DittoHead]

Our evil government shouldn’t have the power of the death penalty anymore.

They aren’t to be trusted with life and death.

Agreed.

Who could have guessed that George Orwell’s “jackboot stamping on a human face — forever” would come equipped with surgical booties?

[lupinus]

Haven't they been against the death penalty for quite awhile?

I mean, maybe not since they stopped roasting people on stakes in the town square. But I'm pretty sure it's been awhile now.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[HankB]

And like a good (Cafeteria)* Catholic,  . . .
* - A phrase a heard a while back to describe a Catholic who picks and chooses which parts of the church's doctrine they choose to follow.

The term actually fits this Pope fairly well, based on some of his previous utterances.

[Pb]

Too late for this guy:



And I remain a strong supporter of the death penalty.

And the pope needs to read Genesis 9:6, where God commands capital punishment for murderers.

Not that he would care though.

[230RN]

I'm also a former "hang 'em high" guy. Now I want multiple, corroborated sources, preferably with video or other irrefutable evidence. If the evidence is not as concrete as the law of gravity, then no.

It's bad enough that you have people spending 20 years in prison before DNA proves them innocent. You can cut them a $5 million check for the mistake, but it will never fix them from having to live through that.

I too have about the same reasoning as Ben put so well.  Purely a secular thing, nothing religious, but District Attorneys, who have to be either re-elected or re-appointed, sometimes seem to be hell- bent on getting convictions no matter what.


But video evidence? Heh. Glad you added "corroborated," Ben.

https://youtu.be/u7cGzYc3_2E

 

[Hawkmoon]

I too have about the same reasoning as Ben put so well.  Purely a secular thing, nothing religious, but District Attorneys, who have to be either re-elected or re-appointed, sometimes seem to be hell- bent on getting convictions no matter what. 

Well, they have to [appear to] be "tough on crime," you know. And everyone knows you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

[Perd Hapley]

And I remain a strong supporter of the death penalty.

And the pope needs to read Genesis 9:6, where God commands capital punishment for murderers.

Not that he would care though.

Concur.

And, yeah, the RCC has been against the death penalty for a long time.

[Ben]

Too late for this guy:

[img]http://www.exclassics.com/foxe/foxe075.gif[

And I remain a strong supporter of the death penalty.

And the pope needs to read Genesis 9:6, where God commands capital punishment for murderers.

Not that he would care though.

Though I'm pretty sure God is only good with the death penalty for the guilty, not railroaded innocent people.

[Perd Hapley]

Though I'm pretty sure God is only good with the death penalty for the guilty, not railroaded innocent people.

That's covered by the part where God says only to execute if there is video and DNA and a confession as proof.

[just Warren]

As read in Exculpatories 1:87.

[Perd Hapley]

Though I'm pretty sure God is only good with the death penalty for the guilty, not railroaded innocent people.

Take 2: Because God was totally unaware that humans could make mistakes, or be prejudiced, or just not care. Had He only known...

[230RN]

Take 2: Because God was totally unaware that humans could make mistakes, or be prejudiced, or just not care. Had He only known...

Twice as funny when I realized who posted that.

Very good.

Terry

[Ron]

Our judicial system increasingly not only abandons equity and justice but imposes injustices upon the people.

Have you taken a good hard look at the character of our rulers? Yes, I said rulers as that is what they have become. They are frequently not up to the challenge of making just rulings about the small things. Giving them the power of life and death is insane. Do you read the headlines and the news, with all the crazy rulings that our judicial system foists upon us? They are in large part not worthy of their authority.

[Pb]

That's covered by the part where God says only to execute if there is video and DNA and a confession as proof.

The Bible's rules for the Hebrew nation says two witness were required to impose the death penalty.

Not that our gov should be taking its laws from the Bible- however opposing the death penalty in all cases is a blatantly unscriptural position for a Christian Church to take.  It seems like the Catholic Church has much sympathy for murderers, criminals, and terrorists, and little sympathy for the victims of their priests.

I agree that fear of a imposing the death penalty wrongly is a good argument for not imposing it.  I do not subscribe to this argument, but respect it.

[freakazoid]

I'm also a former "hang 'em high" guy. Now I want multiple, corroborated sources, preferably with video or other irrefutable evidence. If the evidence is not as concrete as the law of gravity, then no.

It's bad enough that you have people spending 20 years in prison before DNA proves them innocent. You can cut them a $5 million check for the mistake, but it will never fix them from having to live through that.

This. I still believe it is necessary, but they better be 100% correct.

[Hawkmoon]

It seems like the Catholic Church has much sympathy for murderers, criminals, and terrorists, and little sympathy for the victims of their priests.

"Hate the sin but love the sinner." Lah-dee-dah-dee-dah-dee-dah ...

I agree that fear of a imposing the death penalty wrongly is a good argument for not imposing it.  I do not subscribe to this argument, but respect it.

I'm not totally against the death penalty. If we know with absolute certainty that someone committed a murder, I'm okay with the death penalty. What I'm not okay with is convictions based on circumstantial or second- or third-hand evidence ... the kind of evidence that has convicted people who were found (20 or more years later) to be totally innocent based on DNA. That's what leaves you wondering how in the world they were convicted in the first place, and makes you glad they weren't executed.

Back in my [much] younger days, there was a case in New Haven, Connecticut. A young woman named Penny Serra (Sera?) was murdered in a parking garage. The New Haven police early on fixated on a young man whom they were absolutely certain was the killer. They harassed him for years, and basically ruined his life. That's bad enough but, because they were so busy pursuing him, they overlooked other clues. Something like 25 or 30 years later, a DNA sample brought them to a cab driver, who was subsequently convicted (don't remember if he confessed) of the murder. One tends to wonder if they might not have caught him years earlier if they hadn't been so certain the innocent young man was the killer.

It's difficult to support the death penalty when you know the police are prone to pursuing innocent people because of their preconceptions, and the prosecutors are more interested in winning a conviction than they are in ensuring that justice is done. Sadly, the world we live in is not the ideal world I was brought up to hope for.

[Pb]

My perspective on mistakes is this... just about every important activity Americans do kills innocent people.  Pollution from our coal plants kills thousands of us a year.  Doctors kill tens of thousands of people.  Fishing, mining, logging, transportation, riding horses, etc kill lots of folks.  Little kids drown by the dozens each year in home pools.

We are willing to accept accidental deaths to have guns, cars, horses, lumber, etc... even something trivial like home pools or five gallon buckets are going to kill more Americans every year than any possible number of mistaken executions.

I am willing to accept the risk to have the death penalty for murderers, because I think it is important that murderers be killed..

You may disagree.  That is fine.

[Ron]

I take a pretty absolutist stand though I shed few tears for the guilty who receive justice here on earth.

We had a real death penalty fluster *let's not go there* some years ago here in Illinois that revealed how evil those charged with seeking justice can be.

They aren’t getting my consent anymore.

[Perd Hapley]

Our judicial system increasingly not only abandons equity and justice but imposes injustices upon the people.

Have you taken a good hard look at the character of our rulers? Yes, I said rulers as that is what they have become. They are frequently not up to the challenge of making just rulings about the small things. Giving them the power of life and death is insane. Do you read the headlines and the news, with all the crazy rulings that our judicial system foists upon us? They are in large part not worthy of their authority.

"Giving them the power"? That may hold in some states, but in many states, they already have that power. Historically, most polities have had it. You're framing this as if something new were being proposed, but even in Illinois, it would just be a return to the normal state of affairs.

Yes, obviously, we have some unjust rulers, and some "insane" legal situations. The death penalty is hardly the only area where that has tragic, life-or-death consequences. The answer is a general reform of the culture and government; not doing away with the death penalty.

Come to think of it, abolishing the death penalty only adds to the injustice already in our system. Think about it.

[Ron]

"Giving them the power"? That may hold in some states, but in many states, they already have that power. Historically, most polities have had it. You're framing this as if something new were being proposed, but even in Illinois, it would just be a return to the normal state of affairs.

Yes, obviously, we have some unjust rulers, and some "insane" legal situations. The death penalty is hardly the only area where that has tragic, life-or-death consequences. The answer is a general reform of the culture and government; not doing away with the death penalty.

Come to think of it, abolishing the death penalty only adds to the injustice already in our system. Think about it.

Not being a Catholic I just looked into their reasoning for not supporting the death penalty. Pretty weak sauce indeed. A person doesn’t lose his human dignity even after committing a heinous crime? They’re nuts.

My stance against abortion is due to it being evil, it is a wrong. The incredibly rare circumstance where it has to take place, where it is the mother or babies life or maybe both at risk is a question of the lesser of two evils. It should carry little to no weight in the argument about elective abortion. If an abortion is performed under that incredibly rare needful circumstance it is always a tragedy, not justice nor even a good. Everyone suffers and loses.

My stance against the death penalty is more a stance against the current system. Not the actual act itself. Putting to death a murder is in fact justice, a good. Our justice system is increasingly becoming less just and the death of innocent individuals is a real possibility/probability.