Legalism Run Amuck?

[230RN]

^ I get you on the hippy-dippy use of "spiritual."  I guess you just have to separate the meanings by context.

FIFY 

On the OP, I'm confused.  Are [some] Catholics claiming that their god would not accept that as a "real" baptism because of the wrong word, and that no matter the rest of their lives and soul, were they to stand before him in judgment he would find them unbaptized and cast them out?  Because a priest used the wrong pronoun when they were an infant?

That's........something.

That's an ongoing problem with a lot of things in Catholicism, and I struggled with the whole idea of an eternity in hell for one Mortal Sin without Priestly Absolution. I'm sure here's an apologesis for it somewhere in the Catechism or Papal Bulls or whatever, but at the time, I had a real problem with that.

Usually my mother would deflect the illogic with it, like in transubstantiation, with the unstisfactory catchall "That's one of the Mysteries of the Faith."

As time went on, things got unsatisfactory-er and unsatisfactory-er, which led to my review of Religion in general when I was about 16. That review is ongoing.

So as I echoed before and I'll echo again, "I echo Starhawk's plaint that religions should look at other religions as collaborators instead of competitors."

Terry

[Pb]

That's an ongoing problem with a lot of things in Catholicism, and I struggled with the whole idea of an eternity in hell for one Mortal Sin without Priestly Absolution. I'm sure here's an apologesis for it somewhere in the Catechism or Papal Bulls or whatever, but at the time, I had a real problem with that.

I am an anhillationist.  I believe that the Bible teaches that no human being is born with an immortal soul.  Eternal life is a gift of God only to the saved, and that others cease to exist after the final judgement.  No one is tormented in hell forever.

This is contrary to Catholic teaching, but, as far as I can tell, what the Bible actually teaches.   

[WLJ]

I'm still waiting to find out "How many pinheads can dance on the head of an Angel"?

[HankB]

I'm still waiting to find out "How many pinheads can dance on the head of an Angel"?

I think the author of that remark is wondering how many caught the reversal right off . . . 

[230RN]

I think the author of that remark is wondering how many caught the reversal right off . . . 

Me, the author thereof, does wonder how many caught the reversal.  Actually, it's a trivial leap and anyone with half a brain and half a sense of humor could have come up with the joke.

The point was, without insulting anyone but the OP's "we / I" person, that we get hung up over details without appreciating the global, i.e. "macro," aspects of spirituality (in the religious sense, not the groovy sense).

And over which wars have been fought, new religions founded, people tortured to death, and innumerable* other horrible consequences have been wrought.

You know, like "meh."

Terry, 230RN

* Well, the number 5,000,000 comes to mind.

[MechAg94]

Me, the author thereof, does wonder how many caught the reversal.  Actually, it's a trivial leap and anyone with half a brain and half a sense of humor could have come up with the joke.

The point was, without insulting anyone but the OP's "we / I" person, that we get hung up over details without appreciating the global, i.e. "macro," aspects of spirituality (in the religious sense, not the groovy sense).

And over which wars have been fought, new religions founded, people tortured to death, and innumerable* other horrible consequence have been wrought.

You know, like "meh."

Terry, 230RN

* Well, the number 5,000,000 comes to mind.

On the wars, I guess if you discover a new continent with one of the largest silver mines in the world, you can fund an army to try and make everyone else believe the way you do.   

[230RN]

MechAg94 said,

"
On the wars, I guess if you discover a new continent with one of the largest silver mines in the world, you can fund an army to try and make everyone else believe the way you do.
"

I've often felt that money is not the root of all evil, but that it funds self-righteousness.  Which is the root of all evil.

I debate with myself on that one.  Conversion by the sword is impossible if you can't afford a sword.

I see-saw on that.

Terry

[MechAg94]

MechAg94 said,

"
On the wars, I guess if you discover a new continent with one of the largest silver mines in the world, you can fund an army to try and make everyone else believe the way you do.
"

I've often felt that money is not the root of all evil, but that it funds self-righteousness.  Which is the root of all evil.

I debate with myself on that one.  Conversion by the sword is impossible if you can't afford a sword.

I see-saw on that.

Terry

Money just makes it easier to indulge in temptations and get away with bad decisions.  Both foster bad decision making and can lead someone into self destruction sooner or later.  Taking the money away doesn't make the same person virtuous.  All it might do is foster a sense of humility that can lead to learning something. 

I was thinking the Spanish King started making bad decisions before they started pulling bullion in from the New World, but I don't know that history all that well. 

[230RN]

Well, I'm finding it easier and easier to think that religion has caused 63.21% of all human conflicts, and land the other 36.79%.

Not that the One True Religion has caused any problems, but all the others have.

[MechAg94]

Well, I'm finding it easier and easier to think that religion has caused 63.21% of all human conflicts, and land the other 36.79%.

Not that the One True Religion has caused any problems, but all the others have.

And 62.7% of those religious conflicts were just an ambitious/jealous king using it as an excuse to attack someone.     

[Ron]

One of the definitive works on war throughout history is The Encyclopedia of Wars, Philips & Axelrod.

They listed and discussed religious wars separately in one section.  Religious wars were 125 of 1763 that were large enough or notable enough to be included in the work. That's roughly 7% of all the wars throughout recorded history, Islam is involved in about half of those.

War is a human thing, no religion needed.