Drug deaths now exceed traffic deaths in the USA

[Perd Hapley]

And you would be making the same argument if this was about Michael Moore or a liberal politician too, right?

Yeah, and if my daughter/wife/girlfriend was impregnated by a rapist, I'd suddenly be OK with abortion. 

may i help?

[quotations from Rush Limbaugh]

Which merely demonstrate what everyone already knows. What they don't show is Limbaugh claiming that anyone abusing prescription drugs (or drugs of any sort) should be jailed without trial. Limbaugh was charged, but the prosecution bungled the affair badly enough to have the ACLU on Limbaugh's side. Whoops.

[TommyGunn]

may i help?


"There’s nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up," Mr. Limbaugh declared on his radio show on October 5th, 1995.***

and better
He concluded the point by noting: "What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we’re not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."***


Here is what the record to date shows: Mr. Limbaugh’s housekeeper, Wilma Cline, approached Florida media and Florida authorities to reveal that she had acted as Rush Limbaugh’s drug buyer for years, purchasing "more than 30,000 hydrocodone, Lorcet and OcyContin pills," and she reports he "took as many as 30 OxyContin pills a day."**** Florida authorities then began investigating, and Ms. Cline’s allegations have apparently proved solid, certainly solid enough for the State of Florida to take action.

This means, of course, that for quite a long period Mr. Limbaugh was heavily abusing prescription narcotics while continuing to conduct his radio talk show. In short, this means that Mr. Limbaugh was often under the influence of drugs when he was on the air, delivering a hard right-wing message. To be truly blunt, it appears he was stoned while adhering to a position that anyone who uses drugs should be incarcerated.

http://www.bradleyreport.net/commentary/StonedRush.htm


http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=5410

Sic Joe Friday on him!!!   

[Balog]

Yeah, and if my daughter/wife/girlfriend was impregnated by a rapist, I'd suddenly be OK with abortion. 

Huh? This is a massive non-sequitor. Saying "The people who are offering this defense are doing so because they like the person they are defending" is in no way related to whatever rhetorical point you're trying to make there.

Which merely demonstrate what everyone already knows. What they don't show is Limbaugh claiming that anyone abusing prescription drugs (or drugs of any sort) should be jailed without trial. Limbaugh was charged, but the prosecution bungled the affair badly enough to have the ACLU on Limbaugh's side. Whoops.

Lolwut? No one has said Limbaugh was calling for drug users to be jailed without trial. What kind of funky strawman is that? Some of us are just pointing out that a junkie railing against drug use (and calling for drug users to be punished) while stoned is hypocritical. I'm not sure how you can argue that point? Or are you just arguing that hypocrisy isn't a bigt deal again?

[Perd Hapley]

Huh? This is a massive non-sequitor.

It's not a non sequitur. It's actually quite sequitur.    The two "rhetorical points" are equally silly, because they assert a hypothetical situation in which I go back on my principles, to excuse people I like, while laying down the law on people I don't care about.

Aside from being an unfounded personal attack, such an approach fails to prove anything, for either side.

Lolwut? No one has said Limbaugh was calling for drug users to be jailed without trial. What kind of funky strawman is that?

Then what else do you want from Limbaugh? He quit, sought treatment, and turned himself in to authorities. They couldn't prove anything, so...what?

And just to set the record straight, I'm one of those saying that hypocrisy is a big deal, as opposed to people like yourself, who define it so broadly as to be ubiquitous.

[Balog]

Your position is that a junkie railing about the evils of drug use while stoned is not hypocritical?

[Seenterman]

Then what else do you want from Limbaugh? He quit, sought treatment, and turned himself in to authorities. They couldn't prove anything, so...what?

"The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we’re not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."

Well if he was logically consistent he should have plead guilty to any charges and taken his jail time with a stiff upper lip. If drug users deserve to arrested and locked up in prison, why don't YOU belong in prison? Ummm?  In fact the last three Presidents of ours have all admitted to smoking pot, heck Bush even used to snort coke. Its a shame we didn't ruin their lives with drug arrests and felony convictions. 

Yeah, and if my daughter/wife/girlfriend was impregnated by a rapist, I'd suddenly be OK with abortion. 

Not this this has anything to do with whats being discusses but what would you do? Force them to keep the baby? Disown/divorce/leave them if they did have an abortion?

A better analogy would be what if you found your daughter/wife/girlfriend smoking pot or abusing pills. Would you immediately report them to the police and authorities? Why or why not?

[MicroBalrog]

In this case, it's saving the word hypocrite from becoming so over-used as to be meaningless. If everyone who violated their own moral code was a hypocrite, it would become hypocritical to accuse anyone else of using the term.

You're assuming everyone violates their own moral code.

Moreover it is one thing to violate your own moral code in your personal life when your life has little public meaning - for example, Joe the Handyman taking a few nails home from work to fix his porch is not a really big deal in term of hypocrisy, but if Joe is actually Joe the Preacher promoting his world-view to millions, and he steals $10,000, then it is a bigger deal.

[Perd Hapley]

Your position is that a junkie railing about the evils of drug use while stoned is not hypocritical?

"Railing about the evils of drug use..." This does not describe the Rush Limbaugh program. He, like most Republicans, is not in favor of legalizing illegal drugs. But that doesn't mean he rails against the moral aspects of drug abuse. Nor do you know whether he ever did that while abusing drugs.

If he was a hypocrite during that time period, since he has rehabilitated and said he was wrong, when do you let him move on, and quit bringing it up for no good reason?

[Perd Hapley]

You're assuming everyone violates their own moral code.

Assuming, knowing from experience, etc. There is no Nietzschean Superman. Whether from craven weakness or just lack of courage, no one always does exactly what they think is right at all times, since birth.

Well if he was logically consistent he should have plead guilty to any charges and taken his jail time with a stiff upper lip. If drug users deserve to arrested and locked up in prison, why don't YOU belong in prison? Ummm?  In fact the last three Presidents of ours have all admitted to smoking pot, heck Bush even used to snort coke. Its a shame we didn't ruin their lives with drug arrests and felony convictions. 
....
A better analogy would be what if you found your daughter/wife/girlfriend smoking pot or abusing pills. Would you immediately report them to the police and authorities? Why or why not?

Our last three presidents? You're right, we would be much better off. 

You need to read Limbaugh's statements for what he actually said and meant, not what they could be construed to mean. He didn't say that all drug users should forswear all legal rights and get in line at the prison, did he? He said they should be convicted.

Also, I disagree with Limbaugh about drugs. I'm for legalization.

Not this this has anything to do with whats being discusses but what would you do? Force them to keep the baby? Disown/divorce/leave them if they did have an abortion?

I don't wanna sidetrack things that far, and most people here probably know my answer. I"ll PM you. 

[MechAg94]

I am always amazed at the level of hate and anger for people who are successful.  Some people just can't let it stand without finding some way to tear them down.

[MicroBalrog]

Assuming, knowing from experience, etc. There is no Nietzschean Superman. Whether from craven weakness or just lack of courage, no one always does exactly what they think is right at all times, since birth.

This is becoming a very separate moral debate.... but suffice to say that some moral codes are easier to keep to than others.

You need to read Limbaugh's statements for what he actually said and meant, not what they could be construed to mean. He didn't say that all drug users should forswear all legal rights and get in line at the prison, did he? He said they should be convicted.

This makes him a wonderful person, then?

[Fitz]

We spend more per capita on drug enforcement than anyone else in the world


This story is clearly fabricated. There couldn't possibly be a problem with drugs of any kind in america

[Perd Hapley]

This makes him a wonderful person, then?

Huh? All it means is that he was calling for laws to be enforced fairly across the board. His drug use doesn't contradict that.

[birdman]

In fact the last three Presidents of ours have all admitted to smoking pot, heck Bush and Obama even used to snort coke. Its a shame we didn't ruin their lives with drug arrests and felony convictions. 

FIFY.

[MechAg94]

This makes him a wonderful person, then?

That is a weird part of this sideline of the discussion.  You seem to assume some of us think Rush Limbaugh is wonderful and perfect and worship the ground he walks on.  That is far from the truth.

He is a good political analyst (at least when it comes to liberals), good radio personality, and has a sense of humor I can appreciate.  That is about the end of it.  I really don't understand why so many people (who are not left wing liberals) choose to hate him and try to tear him down all the time.  There are a lot of much worse people on the radio.

[Ex-MA Hole]

I mostly blame him for not being big enough to admit that he had a problem and refusing to get treatment for it.

and

Does not sound touchy to me.  Mismanagement coupled with what some might term a weak personality...

and then

I actually wrote "self-centered" instead of "big enough" but changed it in case it might be offensive to anyone here who's battled some type of addiction. But that, and in some cases a weak personality, are really what it boils down to.

Wow....just wow.....if only y'all knew, I mean REALLY knew what you were talking about....

[Balog]

I am always amazed at the level of hate and anger for people who are successful.  Some people just can't let it stand without finding some way to tear them down.

Yeah, you know me always hating on everyone more successful than I am. Oh wait, no you don't know me at all do you? But apparently anyone who points out the hypocrisy of famous and powerful people is just a hater. Good to know. I guess I can't point out Pat Robertson's hypocrisy in saying it's ok to divorce your spouse if they have Alzheimers because he has more money than me huh?

Generally speaking if someone claims to represent a position or belief I hold it upsets me when they are hypocrital PoS's, good to know that's just me hating them for being successful. I appreciate the stunning insight you have into my heart, and apparently the heart of everyone else who points out flaws in people you like.

[Seenterman]

I am always amazed at the level of hate and anger for people who are successful.  Some people just can't let it stand without finding some way to tear them down.

Well speaking for myself my anger come from him being a major hypocrite. If an anti-drug poster in the forum secretly uses drugs in their part time it doesn't affect me any, and them being a hypocrite has no bearing on me. But if a politician or media talking head advocates to a large audience about drugs being immoral and people who use drugs should be arrested and then at the same time that person abuses drugs well that's a major problem and them should be called out on it. Especially when it can be seen that the person money and influence might have played a part in keeping them out of jail.  Rush's maid  Wilma Cline told the courts they had sold large quantities of drugs to Limbaugh over the years. We all have heard of no knock warrants being issued on much less. Why was Rush's home no knocked and searched for drugs? What would have happened if Rush hadn't agreed to pay the prosecutors office $30k to "defray" the cost of the investigation in return for dropping the charges? Why wasn't he arrested when he was found with a Viagra prescription not in his name at Palm Beach Airport by custom officials?

It things like this that angers people. Not his money, I don't hate Bill Gates because he's rich I hate him because windows sucks (except for 7 FTW)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

money walks

[Lee]

Why wasn't he arrested when he was found with a Viagra prescription not in his name at Palm Beach Airport by custom officials?

They figured he had already served some hard time. 

[Perd Hapley]

Well speaking for myself my anger come from him being a major hypocrite. If an anti-drug poster in the forum secretly uses drugs in their part time it doesn't affect me any, and them being a hypocrite has no bearing on me. But if a politician or media talking head advocates to a large audience about drugs being immoral and people who use drugs should be arrested and then at the same time that person abuses drugs well that's a major problem and them should be called out on it. Especially when it can be seen that the person money and influence might have played a part in keeping them out of jail.  Rush's maid  Wilma Cline told the courts they had sold large quantities of drugs to Limbaugh over the years. We all have heard of no knock warrants being issued on much less. Why was Rush's home no knocked and searched for drugs? What would have happened if Rush hadn't agreed to pay the prosecutors office $30k to "defray" the cost of the investigation in return for dropping the charges? Why wasn't he arrested when he was found with a Viagra prescription not in his name at Palm Beach Airport by custom officials?

It things like this that angers people. Not his money, I don't hate Bill Gates because he's rich I hate him because windows sucks (except for 7 FTW)

1. Rush has never been known as anti-drug crusader, nor was he considered a moral exemplar. Drugs were simply never a top-ten issue on his program.

2. When his drug habit came to light, he admitted he was wrong, and quit.

3. He was "called out on it" a long time ago, so why the continued braying from butt-hurt Limbaugh critics?

4. How did his "influence" helped him avoid prosecution? His money may have helped him defend his rights, but there is nothing wrong with that. You say it is "a major problem" that his money may have helped with his legal defense, but you also say his money is not what angers people. Curious, that.
 
5. How is it a criticism of Limbaugh that his house was not no-knocked, or that the state dropped charges it could not prove? 

6. Why should Limbaugh be arrested for having Viagra prescribed to his physician, when this is apparently legal?

"Mike Edmondson, a spokesman for the state attorney in Palm Beach County, said it's often legal under Florida law for a doc to prescribe medication in a third party's name, if all parties are aware and the medic documents it correctly. The sheriff's office is continuing its investigation."
http://www.forbes.com/2006/06/27/rush-limbaugh-viagra-cx_gl_0627autofacescan07.html

[MicroBalrog]

Huh? All it means is that he was calling for laws to be enforced fairly across the board. His drug use doesn't contradict that.

But neither did anybody here accused him of wanting to execute drug users without trial.

His political shortcoming, in my worldview, is: a) Supporting drug users/dealers being imprisoned at all, fair trial or not, and b) Despite advertising himself as being a 'true conservative' not really being radical at all.

[Perd Hapley]

But neither did anybody here accused him of wanting to execute drug users without trial.

No, I said imprisonment. The fact that Limbaugh didn't go to prison is always brought up to demonstrate his hypocrisy. The problem with this is, Limbaugh never said (so far as I know) that pill-heads should be marched off to prison without due process. Limbaugh turned himself in to authorities. They couldn't make any charges stick. So why do people keep bringing this up?

[French G.]

So drug deaths from legal prescription drugs are at an all time high. Meanwhile that nasty illegal pot must be killing tenfold more right?

I dunno, prescription pain meds twice in my life. Had lorcet for my wisdom teeth, took 1. Took another months later when I was in severe pain from what turned out to be strep throat. Took a Contac cold pill at the same time. Anyway, don't do that, I damn near died.

Broken leg, prescribed Vicodin pre-surgery, never took it. Prescribed Percocet after surgery, took 4-5 and the last was a double dose because I knew if I didn't fall asleep quick someone was going to get hurt. Never had a pill make me that angry. Tried out the morphine pump for 7ml total while I was in, that was cool. Didn't really hurt enough to go for more than the novelty, but it did help me sleep when the dude next door had run through 2 25ml syringes and was crying for more. I guess he hurt a good bit.

Hope I never need pain meds again. Maybe when I'm old and don't need a job I'll try some pot. I'll probably like it lots better than I liked percocet.