Which C-19 Vaccine should we get?

[Doggy Daddy]

Been fence sitting for a while, but I think the wife and I are going to go ahead and get vaccinated.  I would really value the hive-mind's thoughts on which one is the one to get, and why?

Also, does it appear that the various vaccination stations always use the same vaccine, or is it a case of what's available is what's used?

[grampster]

We got the Pfizer.  Info I read said that the older you are, the less likely you are to have side effects with Pfizer.  Neither of us had any side effects at all from both jabs.  The reason for that is if you are older your immune system is not as good as when you are young:  ergo, the jab does not cause much of an overload as it does when given to younger folks with a better immune system.  As to efficacy, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other, that is if they help at all.  I think the J&J is not worthwhile.  Who knows?  One day you hear one thing, the next something else.

If you catch the Wuhan chances of going to the hospital and or dying are small.  If you catch the Wuhan with the vax...even smaller.  Then there are the mutations...who knows?  Most everything you hear on the news or on the innertube is bullshit.  The one thing that did catch my attention is a blurb I read somewhere that said when a virus mutates, it becomes more infectious but less deadly.

my 2 cents

[Jim147]

Do either of you have any blood, immune or other problems?

[Bogie]

Frankly, and I used to work for PFE...
 
If you can get up, and walk out the door to your Uber, and go to the baseball game, and cheer mightily... You ain't in virus target market.
 
I got PFE, but then again, I probably know someone along the chain.

[Northwoods]

There’s some weird stuff floating around about the mRNA versions.  Probably , but, conspiracy theories have been turning into spoiler alerts at a disturbing rate. 

I got the J&J jab.  Mostly because I have a problem with needles, plus I felt somewhat under duress getting jabbed at all, so 1-n-done was the way I was going to roll.  Given my natural inclination against using any newly developed tech until it’s been around for a good long while it was also relatively less sketchy to me. 

Note, I’m generally pro-vax.  The rushed nature of the covid jabs (I refuse to call it a vaccine, because it’s not really a vaccine) and the political nature of everything is what’s got me wanting to slam on the breaks.

As to whether you’re better off with one mRNA version or another, or the J&J style, [shrug].  I got knocked on my ass from about 10 hours after the jab to another 24 or so hours.  SWMBO and Things 1 and 2 got Pfizer.  Not much reaction from the first shot.  At least as bad, maybe even a little worse than me when they got the second jab.

[Hawkmoon]

I got mine from the VA hospital, and they were doing Pfizer. I'm 77 years old (actually, I was still (barely) 76 when I got the shots. I had about the same reaction to both sots that I get from an annual flu vaccine -- sore arm for a couple of days.

FWIW (not much) the Pfizer now has full FDA approval -- it's no longer classified as experimental. But it is an mRNA creation rather than a traditional vaccine. To be honest, if I had known more back when I got the shots I might not have done it. And now the numbers are showing that the Pfizer is quickly losing efficacy, down to 61% after 8 months. Which is why (or so they claim) they are recommending a third shot as a booster 8 months after the initial shots.

But there are also reports of complications from the third stick, so I am hesitant to do it. I don't know what or who to believe at this point.

[tokugawa]

IMO, If you don't know what ADE stands for, don't get the shot till you do.
If you don't know what spike proteins can do inside your body, find out first.
This is the biggest medical experiment ever undertaken.
It is not all tinfoil and collanders- there are serious heavy hitters in the viral research, epidemiology and vaccine fields with grave reservations.
And look up the VAERS reports. (vaccine adverse reaction reporting system)
The data is out there, but being smothered.

[JTHunter]

There was a recent Youtube video of a Zoom call with some Brit doctors, one of whom is working on the clotting problems the vaccines are causing.  He is gathering evidence that, because the mRNA is NOT staying at the injection site as they had hoped, he is developing a procedure to test his theory.  He believes that the smooth walls of the epithelial cells that line the capillaries are being "infected" by the mRNA and growing the spike proteins.  These "growths" are acting like tree roots in a sewer line, blocking blood flow and causing microscopic clots.  These can then break up and move to other, more dangerous areas.

[cordex]

If you are concerned what the mRNA generated spike proteins do in your body, shouldn’t you be every bit as concerned about what the virus generated spike proteins (which I imagine will be significantly greater in quantity) will do?

At this stage I would personally probably go for the Johnson and Johnson, however that is based on it using slightly more established technology. If I were concerned about long term efficacy I would look at the Moderna. Pfizer has the benefit of being actually approved (with an asterisk).

[Doggy Daddy]

Do either of you have any blood, immune or other problems?

Oh yeah.  Weight, cardiac, apnea, diabetes...   

[Ron]

I would research them all and choose the one that has had the least amount of reported bad side effects. At least that way you've done your do diligence in making the decision to get the shot(s). 

Myself, I opted to not get vaccinated. Family came to visit and brought Covid with them so I've had my go around with it and will now have the natural antibodies. Unfortunately I got smacked down pretty hard. The Covid infection was like a bad body flu but I ended up getting pneumonia which really wiped me out.

If anyone opts to go my route I would have a plan as far as to where to go for treatment so you are going someplace that aligns with the treatments with which you are comfortable. I didn't do that and it created some anxiety. Researching on your phone what is in the IV bag you're hooked up to is a little late. Thankfully I survived the infection and the treatments !

Having said all that, I still have grave reservations about the mRNA shots. Hopefully my new immunity will last long enough and a lot of the unknowns will get sorted out before I have to reconsider the issue. Even with the near worse case scenario that came to pass from my decision I don't have any regrets. 

[dogmush]

I feel it should probably be pointed out that mRNA Vaccines are not gene therapy.  Those are two different bits of medical science.

mRNA vaccines do not interact with the patient's genes, DNA, or indeed the nucleus of their cells.

[Ron]

I feel it should probably be pointed out that mRNA Vaccines are not gene therapy.  Those are two different bits of medical science.

mRNA vaccines do not interact with the patient's genes, DNA, or indeed the nucleus of their cells.

Noted and changed in post.

edited to add: I hesitate to call the shots vaccines as you can still contract covid, still get sick from covid and potentially still infect others with covid, even after being fully "vaccinated".

[cordex]

I feel it should probably be pointed out that mRNA Vaccines are not gene therapy.  Those are two different bits of medical science.

mRNA vaccines do not interact with the patient's genes, DNA, or indeed the nucleus of their cells.

That's a very recent PR distinction.  Prior to 2020 mRNA therapies ranging from similar to to essentially identical in design to the current vaccines were routinely linked to and called "gene therapy" in scientific literature and studies.  Maybe it was marketing wank trying to connect to the new hotness in related technology, but that conflation used to be very common among the people working in the field.

It is only since the release of the mRNA COVID vaccines and some members of the public began to push back against the idea of "gene therapy" that it became gauche to refer to mRNA based vaccines as gene therapy. 

[Blakenzy]

When has being an early adopter ever been a good thing? 

[WLJ]

Got the Pfizer version. Felt like crap for a few days afterwards. They say it's worse if you already had the bug and I suspected I did last summer. And as a side note I suspect I am currently on the tail end of fighting the delta version as I type this.

[dogmush]

That's a very recent PR distinction.  Prior to 2020 mRNA therapies ranging from similar to to essentially identical in design to the current vaccines were routinely linked to and called "gene therapy" in scientific literature and studies.  Maybe it was marketing wank trying to connect to the new hotness in related technology, but that conflation used to be very common among the people working in the field.

It is only since the release of the mRNA COVID vaccines and some members of the public began to push back against the idea of "gene therapy" that it became gauche to refer to mRNA based vaccines as gene therapy.

Fair enough, I am not a geneticist.  I am going by what one of my HS friends who IS a geneticist now told me.  She made the distinction that "gene therapy" uses either the patient's genes, or external genes to treat something, and the mRNA vaccines use.... some part of RNA that isn't a gene to cause the patient's cell's ribosomes to produce the desired proteins in the cells.  The distinction she made to me was both the one I made above (mRNA doesn't interact with genes/DNA/ cell nucleolus) and one of persistence.  Gene Therapy (according to her) teaches the cells to produce something, or act a different way.  mRNA doesn't "teach" the cells anything.  for each piece of mRNA injected you get one (1) spike protein, and the mRNA is destroyed in the process of creating that protein, so there is no long term persistent change in the functioning of the cell.

We are, however, WELL outside my depth of knowledge on cellular biology here, and I'm just parroting what was told to me at this point and could be parroting poorly. This is not a rhetorical hill I am going to die on.

[Hawkmoon]

If I had it to do over, I think I would prefer the Johnson & Johnson, simply because it is a vaccine that is based on traditional vaccine concepts -- take a small amount of the dead bug and inject it so the body develops an immune response to it. For me, it's too late. I don't know if I want a third dose of the Pfizer juice, and I don't know if the J&J can be taken after having already received two doses of Pfizer.

And I don't know what the VA will be using, IF they initiate a booster program.

[dogmush]

FWIW, to answer the OP question, I would lean towards one of the two mRNA shots, as they seem to be more effective, even with the drop off being talked about now.  I don't think which really matters in the grand scheme of things.

I got the J&J, because that is what the Army had to stick me with at the time.  I felt like death for about 20 hours after it, but no real issues other than that.

Especially with comorbidities, any vaccine is better than no vaccine.

[cordex]

Fair enough, I am not a geneticist.

I'm not either, and I'm not saying you are fundamentally wrong, just pointing out that up until 5 minutes ago people in the field (including some of the people who initially developed the technology) were calling mRNA therapies "gene therapy" all day long and that only changed because of the resulting negative perception of the COVID vaccines.

If I had it to do over, I think I would prefer the Johnson & Johnson, simply because it is a vaccine that is based on traditional vaccine concepts -- take a small amount of the dead bug and inject it so the body develops an immune response to it.

FYI, Johnson & Johnson doesn't used dead COVID virus.  It uses a modified adenovirus designed to integrate into your cell and have your cells produce the spike protein - just like the mRNA vaccines but with a different delivery method.

The benefit of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is that modified adenovirus vaccines have existed for a lot longer than mRNA vaccines, so we have a much better understanding of long-term risks from that technique.

[Lennyjoe]

VA offered the Moderna so that’s what I got. Both injections gave me a sore arm but no other symptoms. Wife still hasn’t gotten one yet as she’s still on the fence.

[Blakenzy]

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1

The right answer to any, any and all covid-19 questions is "WE DON'T KNOW... yet"

[Bogie]

So, the auto parts store I work at does free "check engine" scans.
 
(why is he putting this here? just hold onto your face panty...)
 
And our stores talk to each other... We'll see a customer go to several stores and get plugged in at each. Some are back every week or so, same problems.
 
I wonder how many people have successfully gotten several kinds of shots. Or one type more than the recommended number of doses, by going to different venues. I already have talked to people who were getting probed every day or so, because they though it kept them safe - and hey, it is free, right?

[WLJ]

So, the auto parts store I work at does free "check engine" scans.
 
(why is he putting this here? just hold onto your face panty...)
 
And our stores talk to each other... We'll see a customer go to several stores and get plugged in at each. Some are back every week or so, same problems.
 
I wonder how many people have successfully gotten several kinds of shots. Or one type more than the recommended number of doses, by going to different venues. I already have talked to people who were getting probed every day or so, because they though it kept them safe - and hey, it is free, right?

Sort of like collecting Obama phones?

I would think they're checking the database first

[Boomhauer]

So, the auto parts store I work at does free "check engine" scans.
 
(why is he putting this here? just hold onto your face panty...)
 
And our stores talk to each other... We'll see a customer go to several stores and get plugged in at each. Some are back every week or so, same problems.
 
I wonder how many people have successfully gotten several kinds of shots. Or one type more than the recommended number of doses, by going to different venues. I already have talked to people who were getting probed every day or so, because they though it kept them safe - and hey, it is free, right?

So, the auto parts store I work at does free "check engine" scans.
 
(why is he putting this here? just hold onto your face panty...)
 
And our stores talk to each other... We'll see a customer go to several stores and get plugged in at each. Some are back every week or so, same problems.
 
I wonder how many people have successfully gotten several kinds of shots. Or one type more than the recommended number of doses, by going to different venues. I already have talked to people who were getting probed every day or so, because they though it kept them safe - and hey, it is free, right?

There was an article about one fool who had gotten 27 because he got a gift card each time. 27!