Author Topic: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional  (Read 1858 times)

dm1333

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Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« on: December 16, 2013, 06:35:56 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/16/justice/nsa-surveillance-court-ruling/

Quote
Washington (CNN) -- A federal judge said Monday that he believes the government's once-secret collection of domestic phone records is unconstitutional, setting up likely appeals and further challenges to the data mining revealed by classified leaker Edward Snowden.
U.S. District Judge Richard Leon said the National Security Agency's bulk collection of metadata -- phone records of the time and numbers called without any disclosure of content -- apparently violates privacy rights.
His preliminary ruling favored five plaintiffs challenging the practice, but Leon limited the decision only to their cases.
"I cannot imagine a more 'indiscriminate' and 'arbitrary invasion' than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval," said Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush. "Surely, such a program infringes on 'that degree of privacy' that the Founders enshrined in the Fourth Amendment."

I wonder how many calls were made to this judge, today, from the White House?

I love this the best.  Don't attack me because of who said it.

Quote
"Today, a secret program authorized by a secret court was, when exposed to the light of day, found to violate Americans' rights. It is the first of many," according to Snowden, who is living in Russia under a grant of asylum to avoid prosecution over the leaks in the United States.




Tallpine

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 07:00:14 PM »
But he said they could keep doing it for now ...   ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

dm1333

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 07:05:59 PM »
Baby steps.  I'll take that over the past record.

Quote
In defending the program, NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander told the Senate Judiciary Committee last week that "15 separate judges of the FISA Court have held on 35 occasions that Section 215 (of the Patriot Act) authorizes the collection of telephony metadata in bulk in support of counterterrorism investigations."

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 08:10:05 PM »
Quote
In defending the program, NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander told the Senate Judiciary Committee last week that "15 separate judges of the FISA Court have held on 35 occasions that Section 215 (of the Patriot Act) authorizes the collection of telephony metadata in bulk in support of counterterrorism investigations."

Hard for the government to lose a court case, when no defense is present. ;/  Effers.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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RocketMan

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 10:55:19 PM »
Doesn't matter a whit.  The SCOTUS could rule it violates the 4th and is thus illegal, and the NSA would just continue on its merry way.  They will have to be defunded and dismantled to make them stop.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 11:09:39 PM »
Has the SCOTUS ever ruled on the constitutionality of FISA itself?

Or does nobody have standing to even challenge the existence of FISA?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

AJ Dual

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 11:06:53 AM »
Doesn't matter a whit.  The SCOTUS could rule it violates the 4th and is thus illegal, and the NSA would just continue on its merry way.  They will have to be defunded and dismantled to make them stop.

Pretty much this. What would happen? A bunch of U.S. Marshalls go into the NSA data centers and offices and start trying to turn stuff off? Try to figure out which stuff is foreign and not covered by the COTUS 4A or SCOTUS decision? Not likely. 
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Tallpine

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »
The judge made his ruling; now let him enforce it  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

AJ Dual

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 11:29:37 AM »
The judge made his ruling; now let him enforce it  ;/

Yeah, I was thinking about Jackson too when I wrote that.
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Tallpine

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 11:55:59 AM »
Yeah, I was thinking about Jackson too when I wrote that.

The courts/congress need to stop blocking the efforts of Dear Leader.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2013, 12:01:05 PM »
The courts/congress need to stop blocking the efforts of Dear Leader.

Bull.  Congress wrote Patriot Act.  This isn't any kind of "Dear Leader" bullscat, whether one wants to dig on Bush or Obama.

This is authoritarian intimidation of the population by the empowered, and Congress is 100% complicit in it.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Tallpine

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2013, 12:04:13 PM »
Bull.  Congress wrote Patriot Act.  This isn't any kind of "Dear Leader" bullscat, whether one wants to dig on Bush or Obama.

This is authoritarian intimidation of the population by the empowered, and Congress is 100% complicit in it.

It was parody  ;)
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Nick1911

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2013, 12:15:08 PM »
Unconstitutional?

Cool, so who's going to jail?

Viking

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2013, 12:24:46 PM »
Unconstitutional?

Cool, so who's going to jail?

Don't be silly, prison is only for the little people. Can't put your betters in prison with the riff-raff, can you?
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zxcvbob

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2013, 12:26:45 PM »
Unconstitutional?

Cool, so who's going to jail?

The whistleblowers, of course!
"It's good, though..."

Tallpine

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 01:13:24 PM »
Unconstitutional?

Cool, so who's going to jail?

Guillotine  >:D
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Hawkmoon

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 07:22:45 PM »
The judge seemed to focus on the "metadata," but hasn't it been established that the NSA is actually Hoovering the complete phone conversations, and archiving them for future reference?
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dm1333

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Re: Judge: NSA domestic phone data-mining unconstitutional
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 07:40:29 PM »
Yes it has and yes they are.  I seem to remember that "but it's only meta data" argument here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/29/glenn-greenwald-nsa-cell-phone-calls_n_3520424.html