Michael Jackson Dead

[brimic]

I remember havign the 'Thriller' LP when I was a kid. Played it every day.

Gotta wonder about the idea of great artists signing a deal with the devil- there have been many that have reached the pinnacle of fame, but were tormented in life and often died young or under odd circumstances.

At least MJ died of normal natural causes. He had a lot of baggage in his life to taint his reputation without dying on the toilet or with a belt around his neck to be that would surely make him the punchline of jokes for the next 30 years.

RIP MJ.

[ilbob]

Can I just be labeled a "hater" now and get it over with?  

He hasn't been relevant since the 80's, he hasn't been safe to leave around kids since the 90's, and his crotch must be black and blue from the pummeling he delivers to it when he's supposed to be singing.

I love the family guy skit with MJ dancing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_gNY5UsqGE

I heard some lawyer on TV this morning talking about what a great guy he was and how he had been wronged by the pedophilia accusations.

I about puked. IMO, if it had been someone without money who did the same things that person would have died in jail.

[BrokenPaw]

For a long time, I have thought of Michael Jackson as one of the original poster children for why it's a terrible, terrible thing for kids to become famous.

It's not unlikely that his descent into...strange behavior...is a direct result of the pressure that a high-profile public lifestyle put on him as a kid, and which continued as his individual success grew.

He walked a sad path (especially toward the end), and likely it was a lonely one for much of his life, for all that there were sycophants all around him. 

I was not particularly fond of his music, and I have no particular regard for him as a person (I don't know if the pedophilia accusations are true.  If they are, then he has some retribution to make, hereafter.  If they're not, well, he was undisputably strange, but that is not a crime; it's just more evidence of the sad path his fame took him down).  In any event, I hope his finds whatever peace with himself that he can.

-BP

[HankB]

I'm barely older than Michael Jackson was, so I've heard his unimpressive "music" and I've seen his music videos with the crotch-grabbing and dancing zombies.

This is what passes for "Talent" these days? What's next, some guy dropping trou and burping into the mike?

As he got older, his increasingly bizarre behavior really crossed the line from "eccentric" to "downright creepy" . . . not the sort of person I'd want for a neighbor.

I don't take any joy in his passing, but I fail to see the reason for the near-hysterical "reporting" of his demise, especially on channels like Fox News, which became the "All Michael Jackson, All The Time" channel last night, pre-empting all regular programming. (Of course, Fox does tend to take minor stories and blow them all out of proportion - Kobe Bryant, OJ, Jon-Benet Ramsey, Scott Peterson, etc.) 

I also wonder about the absolute insistence by some of the talking heads that his passing was due entirely to "natural causes" . . .

[Balog]

For a long time, I have thought of Michael Jackson as one of the original poster children for why it's a terrible, terrible thing for kids to become famous.

This. I know the money is tempting and all, but having your child be an actor/singer/whatever is damn near abuse in my mind.

[AZRedhawk44]

What will his musical legacy be?

Considering the fact that his actual talented years pale in the shadow of the 18 years that he was constantly accused of pedophilia from numerous unrelated sources...

Considering the fact that his current fanbase is more wacko than the weirdest of Queensryche groupies and hopechangist Obama supporters ("la la la I can't hear you no he didn't do anything wrong he's Michael Jackson he's the prince of pop la la la")...

... Then his musical legacy will be what the MSM decides for us.

With full disclosure, I was about 7 years old when he hit his peak popularity with Billy Jean, Thriller, Beat It and such.  I loved those songs.  But as much as I loved those, I didn't care for anything from the Jackson Five era, and all his stuff following was weak.  Frankly, I consider him a very dated artist that was more than a 1 hit wonder, but less than a musical genius.  He contributed more to stagecraft than he did to music, IMO.

[BrokenPaw]

This. I know the money is tempting and all, but having your child be an actor/singer/whatever is damn near abuse in my mind.

With the above modification, I agree.  :)

I seem to recall that we have child-labor laws for a reason.  How do shows like the abominable John & Kate +8 not fall under the rules of child exploitation?

-BP

[Balog]

With the above modification, I agree.  :)

I seem to recall that we have child-labor laws for a reason.  How do shows like the abominable John & Kate +8 not fall under the rules of child exploitation?

-BP

  I was thinking of babies in commercials, actually. I doubt the Gerber baby will let it ruin his life. But yeah, aside from that.... Oh, and anyone who puts their kid in one of those "beauty pageants" needs to be scourged. "I'm going to live out my fantasies by making my kid an exhibit at the pedophile zoo." I really hate those bastards.

As for the Jon & Kate kind of shows, I'm actually torn. Documentaries frequently do the same thing, albeit for different reasons. I'd hate to see the laws that'd spring up around trying to clamp down on letting people film you.

[Gewehr98]

I guess it's not a good thing to let folks here know I'm a big Queensryche fan? 

[roo_ster]

I'm barely older than Michael Jackson was, so I've heard his unimpressive "music" and I've seen his music videos with the crotch-grabbing and dancing zombies.

This is what passes for "Talent" these days? What's next, some guy dropping trou and burping into the mike?

As he got older, his increasingly bizarre behavior really crossed the line from "eccentric" to "downright creepy" . . . not the sort of person I'd want for a neighbor.

Here you go:

Allin is best remembered for his notorious live performances that typically featured wildly transgressive acts such as Allin defecating and urinating onstage, rolling in feces and often consuming excrement, committing self-injury, performing naked, and committing violent actions toward the audience—often doing many of these things simultaneously.

...By this point, Allin's performances, which often resulted in considerable damage to venues and sound equipment, were regularly stopped after only a few songs by police or venue owners. Allin was charged with assault and battery or indecent exposure a number of times. His constant touring was only stopped by jail time or by long hospital stays for broken bones, blood poisoning, and other physical trauma.

...Allin stated, "With GG, you don't get what you expect—you get what you deserve."[9]
 

MJ might have handled the family jewels as part of his choreography, but he can't hold a candle to Allin.

Also, Allin brings to mind some very Ghallager-esque problems.

I guess it's not a good thing to let folks here know I'm a big Queensryche fan? 

Saw them twice, once at the Bayfront Center in St Pete in their heyday and once at the late & lamented Bronco Bowl in mid cities DFW, in the early 2000s.

[AZRedhawk44]

I guess it's not a good thing to let folks here know I'm a big Queensryche fan? 

I like Queensryche.... but the fanbase weirds me out. 

Part of it is I feel EXTREMELY out of place since most of their fans are about 15-20 years older than me.  And part of it is... they tend to be odd ducks.  Moreso than most people.

[mtnbkr]

I guess it's not a good thing to let folks here know I'm a big Queensryche fan? 

What's your point?

Chris

[Gewehr98]

That you can find weirdos in pretty much every demographic if you look hard enough...

[mtnbkr]

I never considered Queensryche weird though.

Chris

[AZRedhawk44]

I wasn't saying Weirdness(Queensryche_fan) = Weirdness(Michael_Jackson_Fan).

I was saying that in my experience Queensryche fans are somewhat odd, while MJ fans are extremely odd.

And by "fan" I mean a member of the fan club, owner of multiple concert T-shirts, intimately familiar with all potential upcoming tour dates... one of my best friends in college was president of the Queensryche fan club for a couple years.  She was odd too. 

So it's OK to be odd or weird, G98:  You can still be my friend.

And even if you just like Queensryche and aren't really a "fan" in the sense I described, it's still OK.   

[ilbob]

<deleted due to implied threat from mod even though I very carefully chose my words>

[K Frame]

Well, you can do that to your heart's content, Ilbob...

SOMEWHERE ELSE.

You want to do it here? That's tough.

You may wish to read this again:

"We can certainly discuss the fact that Jackson had several accusations of pedophilia levied against him, and was tried for that crime, and acquitted. We can also discuss the known fact that he made a rather large payoff to the family of a previous accuser.

What we CANNOT do in this thread, though, is start jumping up and down because he's dead, and because we didn't like the man and we were certain that he was a pedophile, cheering that he's now getting his eternal 'reward' for his crimes.

We're also not going to discuss semantics of law as to whether he was convicted or not and whether or not that "proves" our own pet theories about the man.

If that isn't clear to anyone, I suggest you refrain from posting in this thread entirely because I'm not going to explain the concept twice, I'm just going to get rid of the dense wood."

[Cromlech]

Ok I know that I am being lazy by copy-pasting from Wiki (which isn't always trustworthy anyway), but what the heck.

From a young age Jackson was physically and emotionally abused by his father, enduring incessant rehearsals, whippings and name-calling. Jackson's abuse as a child affected him throughout his grown life.[10] In one altercation — later recalled by Marlon Jackson — Joseph held Michael upside down by one leg and "pummeled him over and over again with his hand, hitting him on his back and buttocks".[11] Joseph would often trip up, or push the male children into walls.[11] One night while Jackson was asleep, Joseph climbed into his room through the bedroom window. Wearing a fright mask, he entered the room screaming and shouting. Joseph said he wanted to teach his children not to leave the window open when they went to sleep. For years afterwards, Jackson suffered nightmares about being kidnapped from his bedroom.[11]

Jackson first spoke openly about his childhood abuse in a 1993 interview with Oprah Winfrey. He said that during his childhood he often cried from loneliness and would sometimes get sick or start to vomit upon seeing his father.[12][13][14][15] In Jackson's other high profile interview, Living with Michael Jackson (2003), the singer covered his face with his hand and began crying when talking about his childhood abuse.[11] Jackson recalled that Joseph sat in a chair with a belt in his hand as he and his siblings rehearsed and that "if you didn't do it the right way, he would tear you up, really get you."[16]

Also:

Jackson's skin was a medium-brown color for the entire duration of his youth, but starting in the early 1980s, his skin gradually grew paler. This change gained widespread media coverage, including rumors that Jackson was bleaching his skin.[12] In the mid-1980s, Jackson was diagnosed with vitiligo and lupus; the latter was in remission in Jackson's case, and both illnesses made him sensitive to sunlight. The treatments he used for his condition further lightened his skin tone, and, with the application of pancake makeup to even out blotches, he could appear very pale.[54] The structure of his face changed as well; several surgeons have speculated that Jackson had undergone multiple nasal surgeries, a forehead lift, thinned lips and a cheekbone surgery.[55] Changes to his face were, in part, due to periods of significant weight loss.[21] Jackson lost weight in the early 1980s because of a change in diet and a desire for "a dancer's body".[56] Witnesses reported that Jackson was often dizzy and speculated that he was suffering from anorexia nervosa; periods of weight loss would become a recurring problem for the singer later in life.[57] Some medical professionals have publicly stated their belief that the singer had body dysmorphic disorder, a psychological condition whereby the sufferer has no concept of how they are perceived by others.[54]

I've never been sure one way or another whether the man was guilty or not, but he clearly was a man with problems, both emotionally and physically.

I feel the worst for his children really, things are going to change for them surely, now that MJ is dead and isn't managing their lives.

[ilbob]

I feel the worst for his children really, things are going to change for them surely, now that MJ is dead and isn't managing their lives.

You really believe that MJ managing their lives was good for them?

I doubt it will improve much in any case. They will always have the baggage of being his kids. But they will also have plenty of money for psychotherapy.

[Balog]

I feel sorry for the kids of all celebrities.

[Cromlech]

You really believe that MJ managing their lives was good for them?

No, and I never made such a claim.

What I should have expanded on, is that I think it is a big shake up for them. I think that he was unfit to be a father to those kids, being so child like himself, in many ways.

[Iain]

"One night while Jackson was asleep, Joseph climbed into his room through the bedroom window. Wearing a fright mask, he entered the room screaming and shouting. Joseph said he wanted to teach his children not to leave the window open when they went to sleep."

Huh. Now I know where Arrested Development got the idea of the one armed man from.

[ilbob]

I was just looking at MJ thread on another gun forum to remain nameless.

Irwin would have a field day banning all the grave dancers. Now over 270 posts.

<add>
Thread has now mentioned Hitler. Sure to be closed. :)

[S. Williamson]

*shrug* Godwin's Law strikes again.

[Balog]

I think the Godwining post has went to the land of wind and ghosts. And seriously, are some of the people on this thread trying to get banned?