Author Topic: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]  (Read 13904 times)

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
The New Libertarian Century
By Kelse Moen

At the Republican National Convention, while Sen. Joe Lieberman yukked it up about the absurdity of a pro-war, Keynesian Democrat like him hanging out with a bunch of pro-war, Keynesian Republicans, an authentically conservative convention was being held simultaneously only a few miles away.

The event was Rep. Ron Pauls Rally for the Republic. Paul ran a contrarian campaign for the Republican nomination this year on a platform of individual liberty, a foreign policy of non-interventionism, a gold-backed monetary system, and a return to constitutional government. That message brought 12,000 libertarians, constitutionalists, hippies, Burkeans, pot-smokers, gun-owners, homeschoolers, anarchists and me to fill up the Target Center in downtown Minneapolis for a celebration of that one thing we could all agree on: that we each have the inalienable right to live however we want.

It would be hard to find a more striking contrast between Pauls convention and the RNC. The latter was never anything more than a rehearsed recitation of talking points impressive only for their monumental vapidity.

Conversely, the Rally for the Republic was one big cauldron of good-natured disagreement. And its audience was remarkably informed  the mere mention of the Austrian theory of the business cycle led to an eruption of applause. The loudest boos came not from vague allusions to the opposition but from any mention of the Federal Reserve. Meanwhile, the most substantive thing to come out of the RNC was Gov. Sarah Palins distinction between a hockey mom and a pit bull.

The culmination of the day was Ron Pauls speech. It was nothing I hadnt heard before  but what made this such a powerful event was the audience, the 12,000 people who burst into applause as Paul took the stage.

For years, libertarians have tried to construct a coherent movement to fight for their ideals. They created the Libertarian Party, which today exists only as a parody of itself. Attempts to form an alliance with the anti-war left during the 1960s and the Buchananite right during the 1990s came to nothing.

But now with the emergence of Ron Paul, a tangible movement is taking shape. It is not like the cult of personality that surrounds Barack Obama; it is a movement based not on the man himself but on the principles for which he stands.

The so-called American Century belonged to the likes of John McCain and Barack Obama  collectivist politicians eager to extend the coercive arm of government into every nook and cranny both at home and abroad. Yet the American spirit belongs to Ron Paul and his supporters.

Theirs is the dont-tread-on-me populism of the Founding Fathers, of Robert Taft and Sinclair Lewis and the America First Committee.

They are the true heirs of John McCains slogan, country first: they are the ones who would rather focus on South Dakota than South Ossetia. They are more concerned with Main Street than the Green Zone, but they do this as neighbors, not masters.

Their message is simple: come home, America. They are begging the country in general and the Republicans in particular to reject the philosophy of death and taxes that defined the 20th century and to allow for the traditional American philosophy of freedom and community to define the 21st.

After the hundred years of statism that began with William McKinley and culminated with George W. Bush, it is easy to be pessimistic. But coming out of the Target Center, I plainly saw that the flame of liberty has been dimmed but not extinguished. Perhaps Ron Paul and his supporters still have a fighting chance.

Kelse Moen is a College senior from Sharon, Mass. He is president of the College Republicans.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
how many states ballots are the libs on?

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Guess I could buy a bag of Cheetos and plop my butt onto the basement couch to see how this turns out in the end.

Or I could save some time and effort and simply say it's a non-factor, with respect to Ron Paul actually getting elected into the Oval Office this fall.   

Entertaining, though.  grin
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
how many states ballots are the libs on?


Since this is not about hte success of the Libertarian Debating Society/Party, I don't see how the fact they're on 44 ballots is relevant to anything.

Quote
Or I could save some time and effort and simply say it's a non-factor, with respect to Ron Paul actually getting elected into the Oval Office this fall. 


Yes, an organization whose goal is not the election of a candidate who is not running cannot get him elected. Thank you for that insight.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
what candidates(s) are on 44 ballots? surely not paul

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
what candidates(s) are on 44 ballots? surely not paul

Is Ron Paul a Libertarian candidate?

Is Ron Paul running?

Is the CFL's purpose to elect Ron Paul to any office in the land?

Hint, the answer to any of these questions is not 'Yes'.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
got ya  ron paul is NOT  the libertarian man. the article and the last few months of political auto eroticism not withstanding.  you has a lot of us fooled about what your goal/intentions were

longeyes

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,405
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Right now the Libertarians are gadflies.  They are around to keep the two major parties honest.  Every political culture needs its Puritans, but a real Republic is inevitably going to be a far messier, pragmatic place that won't look watertight to the idealists but will somehow provide a pretty damn prosperous and stable life to most of its citizens.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
got ya  ron paul is NOT  the libertarian man. the article and the last few months of political auto eroticism not withstanding.  you has a lot of us fooled about what your goal/intentions were

There's a difference between 'libertarians' and the Libertarian Party.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

The Annoyed Man

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
got ya  ron paul is NOT  the libertarian man. the article and the last few months of political auto eroticism not withstanding.  you has a lot of us fooled about what your goal/intentions were

There's a difference between 'libertarians' and the Libertarian Party.

in light of you posting an article in which pauls "movement"was featured could you elaborate? in a way that those of us whose p olitical experience has hindered our sophistication can understand

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Specifically, the libertarian movement is far larger than the party (which consistently gets, what, 300,000 votes total?), and more diverse, including a variety of people with views sometimes only touchingly aligned with textbook libertarianism. Neil Boortz is such a 'libertarian' FWIW.

The CFL is now dedicated towards advancing the  'cause' within the boundaries of the GOP, taking the excited, starry-eyed 'libertarians' of the last primaries, and educating them in the rules of political conduct, and training a huge amount of precinct captains, local comittee chairmen, and volunteers - in essence, switching people from the brown fursuit to the three-piece suit, while also raising money for candidates like B. J. Lawson, Paul Broun, and, of course, Ron Paul.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
300,000 votes, eh?

Out of 271 Million Americans?

Interesting.

80,588,000 voters turned out for the 2006 Federal elections.

Unless they "stole" the election from AlGore in Florida (again), 300,000 Libertarian votes nationwide are a tempest in a teapot, I'd wager.
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Unless they stole the election from AlGore (again), 300,000 Libertarian votes nationwide are a tempest in a teapot, I'd wager.

Which is exactly my point.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Ok, that's just plain clutching at straws, and really doesn't engender my confidence of the Paulista camp or the Libertarian "movement".
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Ok, that's just plain clutching at straws, and really doesn't engender my confidence of the Paulista camp or the Libertarian "movement".

What is? Me agreeing with you?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Gewehr98

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 11,010
  • Yee-haa!
    • Neural Misfires (Blog)
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Ok, I'm a bit slow.

It didn't sound like you were agreeing with me for a second there.   undecided
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

http://neuralmisfires.blogspot.com

"Never squat with your spurs on!"

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Ok, I'm a bit slow.

It didn't sound like you were agreeing with me for a second there.   undecided

It is a truth universally acknowledged that the Libertarian Party is extremely small.

It is also generally agreed upon that the number of people that self-identify as libertarian is as high as 10-12% of the population.

The question arises, then, how does a group of this size achieve success (defined as getting their favored policies made into law?).

For libertarians, two strategies have emerged- one, releasing ideas that more mainstream movements later pick up on (school vouchers, homeschooling, the Fair Tax) - and two, which is only now picking up some steam, becoming more politically active within the existing party structure.

It is true that some of these Paulistas are a bit... wacky. This is to be expected with what is, essentially, a movement advocating for peaceful revolution.

As a political movement grows, it is supported, first, by ivory tower intellectuals, later by wackos and the disaffected, and only THEN do other people sometimes sign up.

Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Or the wackos completely derail it and make the mainstream write it off as all wackos.

Which is what has occurred. You really need to realize that.

Crowds of people chanting that a major media outlet "sucks" is not going to get them to cover your movement favorably. You would think that would be common sense.

And yes, they did that in Minnesota, when a Fox reporter quite nicely tried to ask a bunch of them about their movement. The reporter was bellowed at, the libertarian/Paulian whatever bellowed "FOX NEWS SUCKS" and then the crowd picked it up as they gave a finger to the camera. That is what the mainstream audience saw of your movement in their living rooms. How do you think they now see libertarians? Really?

I think your movement has become a political punchline. Ought to come up with a new name and start over, and this time realize that in the YouTube generation, all it takes is a few "wacko" incidents that remain un-denounced (no rapid media response of "They're not with us!") to get your entire movement pushed off to the kiddie table by the mainstream.

Until you develop the political acumen to do that, you're not providing anything to the political scene but material for John Stewart and late-night comedians to joke about. You will not change anything, and will instead hurt the causes you're trying for, setting them back by causing them people to not take them seriously...because they don't take you seriously. And that's a harsh reality.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
No, nothing has 'occurred', because history isn't over at Election Day.

If anything, Ron Paul has won out big.

2Swap is my witness  on November 5th, I told her: "Today, Ron Paul won. Even if he never wins another elected office in his life, even if he dies today of a heart attack.."

He has taken his ideas and taken them to a level of popularity that may not win him anything, that later candidates and later activists will be able to build upon.

Regarding you claim of the movement having been marginalized, I think it's too early to judge that within a few months.

Mark my words though  I think we're going to outlive the modern system.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,424
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Unfortunately, I don't think Ron Paul has popularized libertarian views at all.  Many people just see him as the anti-war, anti-establishment candidate.  YMMV  I actually like his domestic platform a great deal.  Other than the Fed Reserve thing, which I don't know much about. 

Quote
Meanwhile, the most substantive thing to come out of the RNC was Gov. Sarah Palins distinction between a hockey mom and a pit bull.
Perhaps the author should just admit that he didn't keep up with the Republican convention, rather than making an ignorant comment about a joke in a political speech. 

"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Perhaps the author should just admit that he didn't keep up the Republican campaign, rather than making ignorant comments about a joke in a political speech.

Wasn't the point of party conventions these days just to have a nice ritualized party for the media, rather than actually make world-shattering decisions?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,424
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Sorry about that last post.  I'm getting sleepy.  See the edited version.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

taurusowner

  • Guest
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Until Libertarians learn how to package their views in a way that makes the average "raised on CNN"  American understand and appreciate them, they will get no where.  The Libertarians are seen as wackos mainly because they and their candidates act and talk like wackos.  Until that changes, they're going nowhere, and they're dragging a lot of their better ideas with them.

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,424
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
As someone who has been a third-party guy, and is sympathetic to a couple of them, I think all American third parties are perceived as wackos, partly because they are a little wacko.  Third parties attract many genuine wackos, who just fit better in an off-brand party.  But more importantly, third-partyers just tend to be more idealistic, tending to put the message over the mechanics.  They're good at saying "this is the way things ought to be," but not so good at making things that way. 

I hope someday we can have another good party come along, that can get their message out to the public.  But I'm not holding my breath. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: The New Libertarian Century [reposted]
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
As I've said:

They've build a springboard. They raised a whole lot of money - RP has four times more money left over from his campaign than any big L libertarian has ever raised in any Presidential race.

If they can get their people into precinct comittees and caucuses across the country, then that's going to be the beginning of a wonderful friendship.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner