The uniparty discussion

[Ron]

As the guy who can be counted on to ascribe things in what would be considered conspiratorial terms I'll kick off the discussion.

The globalists, the rulers, the hidden rulers, the uniparty, the powers that be (TPTB), the beast system, I've used all those terms and probably some others to describe the unknown power structure that I intuit is behind the scenes.

Just recently I've decided to try and imagine the world as a place run by feudal lords. There are geographical borders but the fiefdoms aren't necessarily just geographical.

Feudalism never went away, it just hid behind other systems of governance.

That's my latest working theory.

The kings of the earth rise up, and the rulers take counsel together, against The Lord and against His anointed.   

[Pb]

Under feudalism, all the land is owned by a monarch, and doled out to his friends.  They control the lives of the people who live on their lands.  In return for this, the lords provide military service to the king.

I don't think this describes the USA.

[Ron]

Under feudalism, all the land is owned by a monarch, and doled out to his friends.  They control the lives of the people who live on their lands.  In return for this, the lords provide military service to the king.

I don't think this describes the USA.

1) all the land is owned by a monarch and doled out to his friends - the important piece is who ultimately "owns" the land. While there is a lot of liberty of land "ownership" in the USA. What I wonder is how much land/property in the USA is held free and clear vs mortgaged? Nearly everyone is taxed on "their" land/property and if you don't pay the tax the government takes it back. We can look at the differences between a tax and paying rent but in practical terms they are functioning the same. There was a lot of doling out that took place during the westward expansion you realize?

2)They control the lives of the people who live on their lands. Let us all take a few minutes and reflect upon how much control of our lives government has assumed... There is soft power and influence and there is hard power and influence. Both are systems of control.

3) the lords provide military service to the king.
 Who are the lords in the USA? I haven't worked this out, this is a new working theory for me. Let us look though at the role of our media in our wars and conflicts. The role of corporations and the role of educational systems, health care. More and more the people in charge of those powerful institutions have been falling in line, working with the politicians and permanent government (another term I've used in the past). I'm thinking the lords are now hid from us but have influence over the above institutions.

We view everything through filters. We're accustomed to interpreting everything through the "we're a constitutional republic" filter. We then ignore everything or become blind to stuff that doesn't cohere to our filter, think cognitive dissonance. Or we see things that don't fit the constitutional republic filter and we get outraged 

All your points are good though, certainly whatever is going on is a hybrid system of control.

[cordex]

I think the system can be much more readily explained by simple corruption and people in power protecting people they like and groups that benefit them.

[Nick1911]

Humans are very good at pastern recognition.  Recognizing patterns at an almost hardware level was and is an important survival trait to predict what will happen next.  Unfortunately, this this also leads us to be susceptible to apophenia – the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things.  Like looking at clouds and seeing shapes we recognize, we interpret meaning into random noise.  Drawing connections and conclusions in places where there are none.

I think this typifies conspiracy theories, which seek to find order and meaning behind events that don’t have any.  Once someone forms a conspiracy model, events that unfold are manipulated to fit that model, or the model is refined to fit the new data.  This also is typical of economic and political analysis – after the market crashes, analysts are happy to explain why it was inevitable, but only a  handful actually predicted it ahead of time.

Which brings me to my next point – models are only useful if they have predictive capability.  Think you have a model of what’s going on in some system?  Make concrete predictions, write them down, and compare reality with them.  This is evidence for or against your model, not tying to retroactively explain events that have already occurred.  If your model is vague and squishy enough that it can’t make concrete predictions, then you are likely to be able to explain anything that happens within it, providing confirmation bias.  A model this vague is probably not correct, and certainly not useful.

I think we have a natural tendency towards this.  I also think that a lot of people would rather prefer – even if it’s a bad actor – that there’s some kind of order to world politics.  If there isn’t than we have 195 sovereign countries each vying for their own self interests against each other using resources available to them in an uncontrolled mad-max internationally lawless tribal environment.  Forming alliances when and where convenient, using their states for personal gain if able, warring over resources and tribal hatred, etc.  This is how I perceive global politics.

If you seek truth, you must be on guard against your own biases – they will trick you and lead you to believing things that are false.

[DittoHead]

The media is also more "uniparty" than most people seem to understand.

We hear a great deal of worry about people living in “bubbles,” with highly partisan broadcast programs and social media combining to sort Americans into silos in which most of their information and their social interactions all have the same political and cultural stamp. I suppose that is a problem for the general electorate, though I am not entirely convinced that it is a very large problem. (More precisely, I believe it is more of an effect than a cause.) Some Americans may live in a Tucker Carlson bubble while others live in a Rachel Maddow bubble, but those aren’t the only kinds of bubbles. If you have spent very much time around media figures and politicians, then you will understand that however their respective audiences are sorted, Rachel Maddow and Tucker Carlson live in the same bubble.

Top-shelf Fox News hosts and their MSNBC counterparts are all multimillionaire employees of multinational media conglomerates, they typically work one block away from each other at their respective studios in Manhattan, they live in the same neighborhoods if not in the same buildings, their children go to the same schools, etc. — and they have a lot more in common with one another than either has in common with the shmucks who compose their audiences, in the same way two competing dairymen have more in common with one another than either has in common with the herds of cows they milk. The chief of staff for a Democratic senator has more in common with the chief of staff of a Republican senator than either has in common with most of the people who elect those senators. Etc.

Your favorite talking head probably isn't on your team.

[MechAg94]

If you seek truth, you must be on guard against your own biases – they will trick you and lead you to believing things that are false.

We also seem to enjoy skipping steps in logical thinking to leap to conclusions without thinking through the progression or testing where our conclusion is true.  This is especially true when some persuasive speaker or video leads you to the conclusion.  A lot of people don't play their own devil's advocate and question what they are believing or saying.  I sometimes wonder if some of that is just discerning fact from opinion when you hear an argument. 

I think global warming fits this category, but some would disagree.   

[MechAg94]

I think the system can be much more readily explained by simple corruption and people in power protecting people they like and groups that benefit them.

The 2nd part of that includes people getting control of the money/fundraising and using that to protect and help like minded people.  Then you add in rich people and corporations buying influence.  They might not get everything they want, but they do tend to skew things in their direction. 

All sort of selfish and non-conspiratorial reasons things end up the way they are. 

[Pb]

I own my own land and house.  I pay minimal property taxes.  I can sell my property.  I can leave and move to another part of the country without  permission.  I can leave the USA if I want.  I don't have a lord who owns my property to which I owe fealty.  This isn't feudalism. 

[Ron]

Humans are very good at pastern recognition.  Recognizing patterns at an almost hardware level was and is an important survival trait to predict what will happen next.  Unfortunately, this this also leads us to be susceptible to apophenia – the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things.  Like looking at clouds and seeing shapes we recognize, we interpret meaning into random noise.  Drawing connections and conclusions in places where there are none.

I think this typifies conspiracy theories, which seek to find order and meaning behind events that don’t have any.  Once someone forms a conspiracy model, events that unfold are manipulated to fit that model, or the model is refined to fit the new data.  This also is typical of economic and political analysis – after the market crashes, analysts are happy to explain why it was inevitable, but only a  handful actually predicted it ahead of time.

"Conspiracy theories" is a convenient turn of phrase to shut down lines of inquiry, speculation and most importantly discussions with others.

In hindsight the Revolutionary War was a criminal conspiracy and treason against the King. Actually all of recorded history is the telling of one conspiracy after another. The most ancient stories at the roots the western world, the most ancient sources of inspiration and instruction are stories of conspiracies. From the Greeks, the Hebrews up through and after Shakespeare, conspiracies that were successful, that failed or never came to fruition.

In many ways our modern kakistocracy is nothing but conspiracies and/or grifts layered one upon another.

Seeing the whole of global media puppeting the same official lines, the lockstep movement of large/global corporations mirroring, echoing and reinforcing the narrative, the falling into line of nearly every one of the "representative" governments of the west and the participation of global financial institutions as enforcers of the narrative is not seeing patterns where they don't exist. What I see is people ignoring the overwhelming obvious coordination and/or handwaving it away. The patterns are there and it tells you something.

It is obvious to anyone who is paying attention that the official stories about just about every major historical event don't add up. We choose to believe lies because they are comfortable and easier.

Seeing the whole of global media puppeting the same official lines, the lockstep movement of large/global corporations mirroring, echoing and reinforcing the narrative, the falling into line nearly all of the "representative" governments of the west and the participation of financial institutions as enforcers of the narrative is not seeing patterns where they don't exist. What I see is people ignoring the overwhelming obvious coordination and/or handwaving it away. The patterns are there and it tells you something.

It is more fantastical to believe that these coordinated actions are spontaneous reactions to events by free agents rather than coordinated actions decided by some form of hierarchy that prefers to operate behind the scenes.

I purposefully didn't apply the repeated paragraph to a specific event. It applies to numerous events throughout our history, especially those more recent events that we've lived through in our lifetimes.

 

[DittoHead]

Make concrete predictions, write them down, and compare reality with them.  This is evidence for or against your model, not tying to retroactively explain events that have already occurred.  If your model is vague and squishy enough that it can’t make concrete predictions, then you are likely to be able to explain anything that happens within it, providing confirmation bias.  A model this vague is probably not correct, and certainly not useful.

This is an excellent point. Many of these theories are so vague and murky that they don't provide much useful information for making forward looking decisions. When predictions are wrong it's too easy to retreat back to "we don't really know anything that's going on".

[Ron]

A good place to start at is "the official narrative is either a flat out lie or a partial truth".

At least that gives you some room to maneuver while trying to discern what is going on in reality.

That alone will help your predictions be more accurate.

 

[Ron]

The media is also more "uniparty" than most people seem to understand. Your favorite talking head probably isn't on your team.

I do love me a good Tucker Carlson monologue.

My antennae are finally tuned to discern when he flips or misdirects. The adversary likes to run the opposition and Tuck is definitely the rights tip of the spear in mainstream news.

He very well could be an establishment fire line that will activate if things don't follow the preferred script. Disabling or redirecting a significant part of the rights NPC's would then be his role.

You have to consider all possibilities and the above is possible. We've had so many on the right buckle at key times that the right being infiltrated with controlled opposition is a potentiality that needs to be taken seriously.   

Just look at the Weakly Standard and the rest of the neocons, never Trumpers. Like Buckley they played Gatekeeper on the right. They aren't conservative, they aren't nationalists, they aren't loyal to American manufacturing and they are expansionist empire building globalist bullies:)  They're a faction of the left as far as I'm concerned.

[French G.]

There is no uniparty. No secret society, no grand plan. There are however many overlapping self organizing systems. Birds of a feather fornicate together as my dad would somewhat more crudely describe it. This board is just as much one of those systems as the illuminati or whatever has you got and bothered.

However, a few of those systems have always wanted their stuff without those pesky peasants. We live in one of the few times in history that the peasants escaped when we revolted against feudal lords and the church. Starting around Magna Carta times. Just now technology is good enough to return us to our natural state of bondage. Again, no central planner just people turning cogs to benefit them. That’s my grand theory.

[MechAg94]

There is no uniparty. No secret society, no grand plan. There are however many overlapping self organizing systems. Birds of a feather fornicate together as my dad would somewhat more crudely describe it. This board is just as much one of those systems as the illuminati or whatever has you got and bothered.

However, a few of those systems have always wanted their stuff without those pesky peasants. We live in one of the few times in history that the peasants escaped when we revolted against feudal lords and the church. Starting around Magna Carta times. Just now technology is good enough to return us to our natural state of bondage. Again, no central planner just people turning cogs to benefit them. That’s my grand theory.

I think that is closer to the truth than some grand conspiracy.  I figure there are people or groups that think they control things, but I doubt they have as much power or control as they claim.

[bedlamite]

I own my own land and house.  I pay minimal property taxes.  I can sell my property.  I can leave and move to another part of the country without  permission.  I can leave the USA if I want.  I don't have a lord who owns my property to which I owe fealty.  This isn't feudalism.

Hows that work out if you don't pay your taxes

[Ron]

The treasonous uniparty political class isn't really a conspiracy?

They just rig everything, control everything, fleece the middle class, send your sons (or you) off to die in foreign lands for their financial benefit. Nope no conspiracy there. Nothing personal, it's just them doing business with each other.

I guess everyone is going to have to get real uncomfortable before they feel the clue bat upside their head.

Open borders, ongoing destruction of the education system, ongoing destruction of the health care industry, rampant crime in the major cities, widespread drug addiction everywhere, runaway inflation, supply chain failures, institutionalized moral debasement, excessive taxation, loss of privacy rights, ongoing destruction of freedom of speech, arbitrary suspension of freedom of assembly, racial hatred, institutionalized child abuse, multi tiered justice system with schmucks like you at the bottom and on and on

No plan, nobody really responsible, it just happened ... and just like that their country failed.

[Perd Hapley]

"Conspiracy theories" is a convenient turn of phrase to shut down lines of inquiry, speculation and most importantly discussions with others.

This is quite true, complicated by the fact that so few people seem to know what the c-word even means anymore. Most people seem to think it means "impossibly wacky idea."


In the past several years, I've heard a lot more people talking about how rigged everything is. Sports fans believe major league sports is as fake as pro wrestling. Every news story is greeted by "they wanna keep story x out of the news." Every election year, people are saying, "they won't let candidate x win." I don't know if conspiracy talk has always been that prevalent in the mainstream, or if "they" have just gotten really lazy about hiding the sausage-making.

I don't discount conspiracy talk just because it sounds too goldurn wacky, but I have noticed that a lot of people talk about creeping leftism as if it is something inevitable. We all firmly believe we're headed for dystopia, sooner or later, and that's just the way it is. And those are just the people convinced of a vague, creeping Leftism. The bona fide conspiracy-monger only has a more localized idea of the source, methods, and motives.

What bothers me is that we all "know" the bad guys are just that close to taking total control over everything, but we'd rather talk about how terrible it is than about ways to stop it. The guy who tells me the bankers run everything never talks about how to stop them. The guy who says all the rich people have harems of child sex slaves is never talking about how to free them. A lot of them seem really excited to talk about how inevitable and unstoppable the whole thing is. Any discussion of how to stop the conspiracy just makes you the naïve sheeple to be mocked.

So I guess I'm not sure how useful it is to see the world in that way. It never seems to offer a solution - just admiration for the power of the villains.


 

[lee n. field]

"Malice, or incompetence?", is what I keep asking myself.

[kgbsquirrel]

This is quite true, complicated by the fact that so few people seem to know what the c-word even means anymore. Most people seem to think it means "impossibly wacky idea."


In the past several years, I've heard a lot more people talking about how rigged everything is. Sports fans believe major league sports is as fake as pro wrestling. Every news story is greeted by "they wanna keep story x out of the news." Every election year, people are saying, "they won't let candidate x win." I don't know if conspiracy talk has always been that prevalent in the mainstream, or if "they" have just gotten really lazy about hiding the sausage-making.

I don't discount conspiracy talk just because it sounds too goldurn wacky, but I have noticed that a lot of people talk about creeping leftism as if it is something inevitable. We all firmly believe we're headed for dystopia, sooner or later, and that's just the way it is. And those are just the people convinced of a vague, creeping Leftism. The bona fide conspiracy-monger only has a more localized idea of the source, methods, and motives.

What bothers me is that we all "know" the bad guys are just that close to taking total control over everything, but we'd rather talk about how terrible it is than about ways to stop it. The guy who tells me the bankers run everything never talks about how to stop them. The guy who says all the rich people have harems of child sex slaves is never talking about how to free them. A lot of them seem really excited to talk about how inevitable and unstoppable the whole thing is. Any discussion of how to stop the conspiracy just makes you the naïve sheeple to be mocked.

So I guess I'm not sure how useful it is to see the world in that way. It never seems to offer a solution - just admiration for the power of the villains.

1: the first rule of fight club....
2: you want people to make statements of violence which the state can use against them.
3: you're then using people's strategic silence to blame them for their oppression.

You start out sounding all reasonable and then you veered right into what I will described as Controlled Opposition Talking Points where you basically blame the victim.

[cordex]

I guess sometimes the conspiracy is so pervasive that we don’t even remember that we are in on it.

[Ron]

I guess sometimes the conspiracy is so pervasive that we don’t even remember that we are in on it.

Truth is we have all been conditioned and manipulated by TPTB our whole lives. Some are able to break free, others are trapped in the conditioning and others embrace the conditioning.

There is actually a lot more to it than just the political side of the equation. Beyond mere ideology into philosophy, metaphysics, first principles.

That's one reason we lose to the left continually, half of the right is operating under the same set of philosophical presuppositions or world view. The left is actually more consistent in applying the modern zeitgeist to society despite how insane and how disconnected it is from observable reality. Much of the right has no answer to the left because fundamentally they believe the same thing about reality at the foundational level.

[Fly320s]

I think the system can be much more readily explained by simple corruption and people in power protecting people they like and groups that benefit them.

That's my take as well.

[DittoHead]

Truth is we have all been conditioned and manipulated by TPTB our whole lives. Some are able to break free, others are trapped in the conditioning and others embrace the conditioning.

People want to believe they have been uniquely enlightened and can see the world as it truly is while the rest of the world is hopelessly unaware. For the conspiracy theorists it's not just that others came to a different conclusion, that's not sinister enough, it's that everyone else is brainwashed in some form into not seeing "the truth". While complaining about the conspiracy theory label as being a dismissive way to shut down discussion, anyone who disagrees is labeled as ignorant sheep or controlled opposition.

Also, the quote from my signature line has never been more appropriate 

[Ron]

People want to believe they have been uniquely enlightened and can see the world as it truly is while the rest of the world is hopelessly unaware. For the conspiracy theorists it's not just that others came to a different conclusion, that's not sinister enough, it's that everyone else is brainwashed in some form into not seeing "the truth". While complaining about the conspiracy theory label as being a dismissive way to shut down discussion, anyone who disagrees is labeled as ignorant sheep or controlled opposition.

Also, the quote from my signature line has never been more appropriate 

Once you stop believing any person or organization that has purposefully lied to the public you have fewer and fewer options for acquiring true knowledge. Particularly regarding politics.

That leaves you in a position where more possibilities/potentialities get humored.

Generally what I've observed is - we get lied to, there is outrage, the next issue dominates the media, everyone forgets they were lied to and who did the lying, the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

I make it a point to purposefully not believe anything our media reports until I can verify. Think of it like falsification in the realm of science. Like in science, less withstands scrutiny than you would hope or expect.

This means I'm reading the adversarial and contrary psyop/propaganda also. That of course can be a treacherous course of action admittedly. I was truly disappointed to find out how dishonest all of our media really is, there is nothing objective about them. And they aren't jingoistic pro America either, except maybe in words only.

I don't claim to know the real truth about world politics. As I've stated before, what I do know is enough to know the official storyline or narrative is at the very best a partial truth, but more likely than not all lies. I don't believe liars and neither should you.

The whole Ukraine policy was implemented by crooks and liars that never had our nations best interests in mind. They will fight for their policy down to the very last Ukrainian soldier.

Stop believing these lying neocon warmongerers. Fool me once shame on you, fool me again shame on me. Don't believe liars, there are no noble lies.