Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land; I don't grok.

[Fly320s]

I finished Robert Henlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" last night.

I don't grok it.  I enjoyed the first half of the book as a little bit goofy sci-fi story.  The second half left me scratching my head and wondering what Heinlein was trying to say.  It seems to me that the story went off on a tangent about religion.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

I like Heinlein's writing style, so I'll read another one of his books.  Maybe I can grok one of those.

[El Tejon]

Try sitting on the bottom of a swimming pool and thinking about it.

It is a criticism of Christianity and churches.

I recommend "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", FWIW.

Front!

[Werewolf]

To Heinlein organized religion was little more than a legal scam tolerated by the powers that be as a means to control the masses and operated by con-men of the lowest sort. He had no great love for it or the priests, reverends, immans, witch doctors or whatever they are called in a given religion.

Heinlein doesn't as far as I know question the existence of GOD. He does question the nature of GOD. He absolutely hated the concept of organized religion as a means to commune with or understand GOD.

[Dave Markowitz]

To a certain degree, Stranger in a Strange Land is also the outgrowth of a bet between RAH and L. Ron Hubbard.  They were having dinner, along with Jerry Pournelle, and the idea came up that you could make A LOT of money by founding a religion.  RAH and LRH placed a bet on who would be more successful at doing so.  RAH wrote SIASL, while Hubbard went on to found the Church of Scientology.

Most people agree that LRH won the bet.

[roo_ster]

SIASL is the only RAH book I started but did not finish.

I have read a bunch of his books & IMO, SISL did not measure up the the rest I have read.

[Art Eatman]

I concur with Werewolf about Heinlein and TheChurchies.

I read it when it first came out, and a few times since then.    Sure, the message is fairly obvious, but I usually don't let that sort of thing bother me.  I guess I've never worried about any deep meanings in a lot of books.  If they're enjoyable as novels, fine.

Art

[Fly320s]

Thanks, all.

I figured it was mostly a dig at religion, epecially Christianity, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Dave M., is that statement about the bet true (documented somewhere)?

[Harold Tuttle]

While the often-cited rumor that Hubbard made a bar bet with Robert Heinlein that he could start a cult is almost certainly false, others have claimed direct knowledge that during 1949 Hubbard did make statements to other people that starting a religion would be a good way to make money.

Writer and publisher Lloyd Arthur Eshbach, for example, reported Hubbard saying "I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." Writer Theodore Sturgeon reported that Hubbard made a similar statement at the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society. Likewise, writer Sam Moskowitz reported in an affidavit that during an Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting, Hubbard had said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

The Church of Scientology denies that Hubbard ever made any such statement, and has sued at least one publisher, the German magazine Stern, for publishing claims that he did (Stern won the lawsuit). Members hold that the truth or falsity of such claims is irrelevant in judging whether the church meets their spiritual needs.

[Strings]

See,I LIKED Stranger in a Strange Land. It DID present an interesting viewpoint on our society, and RAH's views on organized religion were fairly close to my own (I do NOT like being told how to worship)...

 Oh, it DOES make more sense if you read it in the original Martian: looses quite a bit in translation... :neener:

[SpookyPistolero]

I've nothing of value to add except that I believe I hate the word 'grok' more than any other word I've ever heard. I had to google it for a definition.

[Strings]

SO you're saying you don' grok "grok"? :neener:

[Sindawe]

Speaking of the The Church of Scientology, I wonder if they've caught wind of the recent episode of South Park.  The one that ends with Stan Marsh saying...

Go ahead, sue me.  I DARE YOU!

after he learns ALL ABOUT the faith.

O you're saying you don' grok "grok"? :neener:

No, he's just not grokked it in fullness yet.

[SpookyPistolero]

AAHhhh, no one here can grok the rage I'm feeling from exposing my eyes to that word so much.

[Greg Levy]

Werewolf and most of the others seem to have come close to what I understand of the last half of the book.  

Stranger is not the only time he attacks religion...in Job he has it again.  While it seems he is picking on Chistianity a lot, I tend to see it more as an attack on anyone who goes along with the crowd, without researching and forming their own opinion first.  He was very big on researching your position rather than doing something on 'faith'.

The scene that sticks with me more than any oterh from Stranger is when he is discussing sculpture with Ben...it got me looking into Rodin's work, and realising the difference between 'art' and as Heinlein diescribes it...'intelectual masturbatio' that passes as modern art.

greg

[SteveS]

SIASL is the only RAH book I started but did not finish.

I have read a bunch of his books & IMO, SISL did not measure up the the rest I have read.

I finished it, but agree that it wasn't as good as his other stuff.  At the time I read it, it was only the second Heinlein book I had read and I considered not reading any of his other books.  I am glad I went on to others.  Every author is entitled to a few "stinkers."