Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: TechMan on June 06, 2012, 11:34:54 AM
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http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120606/NEWS/306060030 (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120606/NEWS/306060030)
This happened in my neck of the woods. :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Student is graduating, family makes "excessive" noise and now the student/family has to complete 20 hours of community service to get the diploma. The policy is not kept secret: Students and parents are told, and parents sign a letter, saying they understand the policy when they make their graduation ticket request.
To request tickets, parents sign a letter saying, in part: “I understand that I am responsible for the conduct of myself, child and guests. Any disruptive behavior will result in my child’s diploma being held, and 20 additional hours of community service (must be) completed until it is awarded.”
The policy was also announced at the graduation ceremony.
So the reader had to re-announce the next person's name, so what?
I am at a loss for words...
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How is that even legal?
The grad had absolutely zero control over what the audience did.
I hope some tile crawler takes it on and makes it right.
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I see no problem with this whatsoever.
The family agreed to those requirements to be allowed to share an auditorium with hundreds (I'm guessing thousands) of other people.
As the social contract for civility has clearly broken down, an ACTUAL CONTRACT took its place. They broke it. I hope the community service is useful for reflection, but I'm guessing they will feel it was just the man keeping them down.
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So the reader had to re-announce the next person's name, so what?
I am at a loss for words...
Have you never attended a modern graduation? The cheering can last for some time.
Let's say it is only 30 seconds. 30 seconds EXTRA per graduate. Mt. Healthy has a total student population ofr ~3300 so let's say the graduating class is 700.
700 x 30 seconds = almost SIX EXTRA HOURS for the graduation ceremony.
Yeah, it's no big deal if they have to wait.
(Checking my numbers, it looks that the number I got for Mt Healy is for the ENTIRE K-12 grade. So maybe 200-250 gradutes. So it would only be two extra hours.)
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Who gave the school bureaucrat legislative & judicial power to assign criminal penalties ("community service") to a student based on someone else's actions?
What's to keep someone from making noise when a student they don't like is announced?
Too often, school bureaucrats are becoming drunk with their imagined power, and need to be slapped down hard, figuratively if not literally. (And in some cases I'm beginning to think that a literal slapdown would not be undeserved, since tar and feathers are difficult to procure on short notice.)
Had I been the graduating student . . . I would have had my diploma in hand as I walked off the stage.
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^^^
That's my point.
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Who gave the school bureaucrat legislative & judicial power to assign criminal penalties ("community service") to a student based on someone else's actions?
What's to keep someone from making noise when a student they don't like is announced?
Too often, school bureaucrats are becoming drunk with their imagined power, and need to be slapped down hard, figuratively if not literally. (And in some cases I'm beginning to think that a literal slapdown would not be undeserved, since tar and feathers are difficult to procure on short notice.)
Had I been the graduating student . . . I would have had my diploma in hand as I walked off the stage.
According to the article, the student is 19 and requested the tickets himself. He, as the one getting the tickets, IS responsible for his guests.
And I would sincerely hope that had you made good on your threat to get your diploma by any means that you would be leaving in handcuffs.
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While noise is an issue at graduation ceremonies, as it is unfair to the others in the audiance, I don't think punishing the student is the way to go.
The kid deserves his diploma and earned it over the course of years. Losing it because his/her family or friends can't keep a lid on the noise during one ceromony isn't right, and expecting a 17/18/19 year old to be responcible for the conduct of other adults, regardless of papers signed, is just retarded.
I think these schools need to find another way to control the noise of the crowd.
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BSL has hit on the crux of the matter - that the graduating student can exert only so much influence over his invited guests. Whatever action that is taken should be directed at those who are considered to be disruptive - and I see nothing wrong with a phalanx of cops coming down the aisle to escort the offending folks out at the point of a disturbing the peace charge.
This is not a sporting event where fans are expected to cheer for their favorite player. It is a rite of passage from student/child to graduate/adult that is supposed to be embued with some measure of pomp and solemnity. Heck, the even play Pomp and Circumstance at almost every graduation ceremony!
Beyond all that, the student's guests received and used tickets, which surely indicates that not just any bozo from off the street can come in and celebrate this wonderful opportunity to show just how special their little snowflake is, as opposed to all the other snowflakes that are also unique in just the same way.
Has it become necessary to describe in minute detail what would be considered "any disruptive behavior"? While I am opposed to enforced silence, with perhaps a short golf clap, as the limit before you are considered "disruptive", making noise after the announcer has called your little dumpling's name and paused the same amount of time as they did for all the little dumplings whose names were announced before yours, seems to fall into the realm of "disruptiveness". Sadly, this incident demonstrates beyond the shadow of any doubt that yes, it is necessary to spell out in excruciating detail what the limits of acceptable behavior are.
Does that make me one of those busybodies who get off on running around telling everyone how to behave? Or is it just that what used to pass for some sort of social standard has slipped and we are now forced to deal with folks who want to do their thing without any consideration of how it impacts others?
stay safe.
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As the social contract for civility has clearly broken down, an ACTUAL CONTRACT took its place. They broke it. I hope the community service is useful for reflection, but I'm guessing they will feel it was just the man keeping them down.
Typically, the state mandates the requirements for graduation, so any additional provisions may not necessarily be legal or enforceable. I don't know about Ohio, so I can't really say.
Is this a problem? Sure, but so are people that talk during the national anthem or refuse to remove their hat, and hundreds of other kinds of loutish behavior. I am just not sure this is the best way to handle it.
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Too often, school bureaucrats are becoming drunk with their imagined power, and need to be slapped down hard, figuratively if not literally. (And in some cases I'm beginning to think that a literal slapdown would not be undeserved, since tar and feathers are difficult to procure on short notice.)
Minor obvious deletion, there. Part of the general bureaucratic mentality and not limited to school bureaucrats.
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The student graduated. That cannot be taken away.
School can keep the diploma.
In the 28 years since i graduated High School, I have needed my diploma exactly
.... ummm
....
ZERO times.
In the 24 years since I've graduated college, I've been asked for my diploma exactly
...ummm
ZERO times.
Transcripts, yes.
Diploma, no.
Let them keep it.
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Typically, the state mandates the requirements for graduation, so any additional provisions may not necessarily be legal or enforceable. I don't know about Ohio, so I can't really say.
Is this a problem? Sure, but so are people that talk during the national anthem or refuse to remove their hat, and hundreds of other kinds of loutish behavior. I am just not sure this is the best way to handle it.
I understand this situation as he doesn't get the pretty diploma without fulfilling the service requirements. He has still "graduated" but doesn't get to pin anything on his wall until he and/or his family have fulfilled the contract they signed.
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I think a big part of the problem is that the last couple generations, in general, just don't know how to behave (or dress) for formal and semi formal occasions. I know I have some minor issues with it, just because I don't have much practice or the clothing budget.
Graduations, weddings, funerals, even going to court, a lot of younger people havn't been exposed to MANNERS, and i'm not talking please and thank you. Most of our cultures more solem customs have been turned casual.
I would say this is the one real benifit of going to a more formal christian church (well, other then the spiritual stuff) as those who do have to dress "up" every week and behave in a more subdued manner.
Think about it, when was the last time you went to a really formal wedding? Even funerals can get a little wonky. During both my Grandfathers and Grandmothers funerals, a few people my age showed up wearing black clothing that was more appropriate for a night on the town then a funeral, and got confused by the receaving line at the veiwing. Conversly, at my Great Uncles funeral, I was the only one there under the age of 30, and it was exactly what one expects (well, as much as it can be in my family ;/ we all dressed and behavied with manners though)
We, as a culture, are losing our capibility for traditional ceremony.
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The school officials are petty and childish at best.
They should learn how to teach effectively and maintain budgetary discipline rather than trying to control everything else.
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sad but needed in todays world. i've seen behavior at graduations that would get you thrown out of a biker bar. in some areas community service ia a graduation requirement. i like the results in the schools i've seen. most of the better private schools require it as well
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Both of my kids attend private (Catholic) schools.
At graduation this past Friday, we saw none of the behaviors discussed here.
Maybe that group of parents were just a civil lot of folks! How rare it seems....