Ninth Circuit: no gun purchase if you use medical marijuana

[MillCreek]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-court-upholds-ban-gun-sales-marijuana-card-41778814

So if you are in the Ninth Circuit and use medical marijuana, no guns for you.

[dogmush]

I think the war on some drugs has been a great failure, and should be ended.  That said, I don't understand how folks that use marijuana seem to think they aren't using an illegal drug.

Yeah it's a BS law, but you're still breaking it.  Don't be surprised when you are treated like a criminal.

[Ben]

I think the war on some drugs has been a great failure, and should be ended.  That said, I don't understand how folks that use marijuana seem to think they aren't using an illegal drug.

Yeah it's a BS law, but you're still breaking it.  Don't be surprised when you are treated like a criminal.

My concern here would be the medical qualifier. Doesn't that make it legal in this case? Then the concern is that if it can be ruled that a particular prescription nullifies your right to the 2nd, at what point do they stop? To my mind it's a slippery slope to "anyone with a prescription to 'X' ".

Caveat: I'm unfamiliar with the legality of "medical marijuana".

[MillCreek]

My concern here would be the medical qualifier. Doesn't that make it legal in this case? Then the concern is that if it can be ruled that a particular prescription nullifies your right to the 2nd, at what point do they stop? To my mind it's a slippery slope to "anyone with a prescription to 'X' ".

Caveat: I'm unfamiliar with the legality of "medical marijuana".

Using marijuana for medical purposes may be legal under state law, but it is still illegal under Federal law, which is what the Ninth Circuit relied upon in this decision.

[Ben]

Using marijuana for medical purposes may be legal under state law, but it is still illegal under Federal law, which is what the Ninth Circuit relied upon in this decision.

If the decision was made purely on "legal" vs "illegal", then I agree with Dogmush. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

[T.O.M.]

Using marijuana for medical purposes may be legal under state law, but it is still illegal under Federal law, which is what the Ninth Circuit relied upon in this decision.

This is the sole saving grace, IMHO, to keep this from being a serious concern for gun owners.  It has nothing to do with marijuana itself, or how it affects users.  It's all about the conflict of laws between the states allowing medical marijuana, and the federal law making it illegal.  

That said, why is it that so many of these gun rights cases have such bad examples of gun owners as the subject?  Plaintiff here said "she was not a marijuana user, but obtained the card in part as an expression of support for marijuana legalization."  Now, granted I'm a lawyer, so I read into things all the time, but I read that as saying she doesn't need medical marijuana, but took steps (perhaps fraudulently) to convince a physician to sign legal documents on her behalf to allow her to obtain permission to use legally marijuana.  And now she's a poster child for RKBA issues?  Yeah, that helps our cause...

[charby]

Using marijuana for medical purposes may be legal under state law, but it is still illegal under Federal law, which is what the Ninth Circuit relied upon in this decision.

How I also understood it.

[wmenorr67]

So now if you want to stretch this a bit, the states like Colorado that permit recreational use, then anyone that partakes is ineligible also?

[Jim147]

So if you are still buying your pot from the guy down the street and don't get a card you can keep your guns?

[TechMan]

So now if you want to stretch this a bit, the states like Colorado that permit recreational use, then anyone that partakes is ineligible also?

Yes.  CO's law conflicts with Federal.

[MillCreek]

So now if you want to stretch this a bit, the states like Colorado that permit recreational use, then anyone that partakes is ineligible also?

This decision only applies to states in the Fed Ninth Circuit.

[TechMan]

This decision only applies to states in the Fed Ninth Circuit.

I think he is saying if a similar case were to come in front of the 10 District Court.

[dogmush]

So if you are still buying your pot from the guy down the street and don't get a card you can keep your guns?

Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled
substance?

Emphisis mine.

There is no way, currently, in the United States to legally use marijuana and purchase a firearm.  This lady was stupid for trying.

[MillCreek]

I think he is saying if a similar case were to come in front of the 10 District Court.

Maybe.  Each District court is bound by the appellate decisions of their Circuit appellate court and SCOTUS, although the decisions of other Circuits can certainly be persuasive or cited as authority.  One of the most common reasons for Federal appellate cases to be heard by SCOTUS is for different Circuits to render different decisions on the same issue.  So if the Tenth Circuit came up with a different ruling on this same medical marijuana/firearms issue, it would be ripe for certiorari to SCOTUS.

[Hawkmoon]

So now if you want to stretch this a bit, the states like Colorado that permit recreational use, then anyone that partakes is ineligible also?

Yes, the same as recreational users in other states. Marijuana is illegal under federal law ... period. If you are a user of unlawful drugs, you cannot (legally) buy or possess a firearm under federal law.

That's really all there is to it. Of course, the big federal hammer is the perjury when filling out a Form 4473 if buying from an FFL. In states that allow face-to-face transfers, you can buy a gun without filling out a 4473, so you can't be prosecuted for lying on a form you didn't fill out. But you're still not allowed to buy the gun under federal law.

[Firethorn]

Caveat: I'm unfamiliar with the legality of "medical marijuana".

It's legal by state law.  So you don't generally have to worry about the state po-po getting in your face about it.

However, Marijuana is still a "schedule 1" drug per the DEA and federal law, which means that the feds, legally speaking, don't recognize any 'valid medical use'.

Note, even cocaine is only schedule 2 - highly abusable, but a few valid medical uses.  I understand it's still useful in very specific situations for eyes (a drop or so of cocaine solution onto the eyeball).

That being said, the DEA and FBI aren't equipped to go after regular users - they depend on the states to do that.  They're after the shippers and larger dealers.

[wmenorr67]

My point being that a Pandora's box has been opened with all this state's right vs federal rights.

This could have implications across the 2A world, states saying they won't enforce federal laws.

The lines are getting more blurry with each and every court decision that puts state law legalizing something the feds say isn't.

[dogmush]

My point being that a Pandora's box has been opened with all this state's right vs federal rights.

This could have implications across the 2A world, states saying they won't enforce federal laws.

The lines are getting more blurry with each and every court decision that puts state law legalizing something the feds say isn't.

I'd like to agree,  but the war over state's rights and federal rights has already been fought and lost.

The feds are ignoring states going against them on mj, because the feds don't actually care about drugs.  If the states get froggy on something that matters they'll get shut down.  Usually by cutting off cash.

[Firethorn]

The feds are ignoring states going against them on my, because the feds don't actually care about drugs.  If the states get froggy on something that matters they'll get shut down.  Usually by cutting off cash.

I'd say that they don't care about weed, and are quite aware that while they oppose it, the majority of the population at this point supports some level of legalization.

When you have incumbents facing primaries where they're wining by single digit percentages, they have to be careful.

[dm1333]

Medical marijuana = the only prescription with no dosage and no expiration.   

[Firethorn]

Medical marijuana = the only prescription with no dosage and no expiration.   

That depends on the doctor doing the prescribing.  Remember, there's a lot of prescriptions out there that's 'as necessary for the pain' out there.

And no expiration?  You don't think they can't slap the standard 1 year on it?

That said, I have sympathy for some, seeing their choice of marijuana as one addressing the failures of the modern medicine system - too expensive and/or too many bad side effects.  That being said, I'm not willing to put a percentage on it, but I do believe that the majority of 'prescriptions' for medical need are anything but.

That's why I support cutting the crap - just legalize it completely, regulate a bit like alcohol and tobacco, keeping in mind that I think the feds and local jurisdictions have gone overboard in some spots as well.

[freakazoid]

So simply having a card issued by the state saying you can purchase marijuana for medical reason, is grounds for the feds to say you can't buy a gun? Yeah that doesn't set up any bad precedences.

[dm1333]

That depends on the doctor doing the prescribing.  Remember, there's a lot of prescriptions out there that's 'as necessary for the pain' out there.

And no expiration?  You don't think they can't slap the standard 1 year on it?

That said, I have sympathy for some, seeing their choice of marijuana as one addressing the failures of the modern medicine system - too expensive and/or too many bad side effects.  That being said, I'm not willing to put a percentage on it, but I do believe that the majority of 'prescriptions' for medical need are anything but.

That's why I support cutting the crap - just legalize it completely, regulate a bit like alcohol and tobacco, keeping in mind that I think the feds and local jurisdictions have gone overboard in some spots as well.

I spent 8 years in the Emerald Triangle, I've got no problem stating that I believe the vast majority of 215 cards issued were for bogus maladies.  You get your doctors recommendation and you can keep using that recommendation over and over to keep renewing your 215 card.

[Mannlicher]

I sure this came as a big shock to a bunch of dopers.   lol

[MechAg94]

So simply having a card issued by the state saying you can purchase marijuana for medical reason, is grounds for the feds to say you can't buy a gun? Yeah that doesn't set up any bad precedences.

Yeah, it kind of opens that up to actual prescribed narcotics.