Author Topic: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues  (Read 2824 times)

Ben

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Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« on: June 18, 2009, 10:35:57 AM »
A couple of things about the poll interest me:

1) I'd be interested in tracking a comparison of Obama's falling popularity with the falling popularity of past presidents. Is the hopechange initial popularity going to make the disapproval ratings fall faster for him as, due to reality, he has to renege on key campaign promises? Or will it all kind of even out to the general loss in popularity most past presidents have seen the longer they were in office?

2) I would really have liked to see the exact questions that resulted in the approval ratings of Republicans vs Democrats. I can certainly see the low number for Republicans, since I'm sure LOTS of Republicans said the leadership sucks. But then how do you get the relatively high value for Democrats? I think it's safe to say most Republicans that are unhappy with the party think the Dems suck worse, and I would also hazard to guess most "small l" Libertarians think the same. The numbers would lead one to conject the polls had sample sets with perhaps too high Democrat populations. :)


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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090618/pl_nm/us_obama_polls_1

Polls find rising concern with Obama on key issues
By JoAnne Allen Joanne Allen Wed Jun 17, 9:37 pm ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama faces growing concerns among voters over government spending, the auto industry bailout and other economic policies, according to two opinion polls released on Wednesday.

Obama, who took office in January, remains popular with Americans, although his overall job approval rating slipped to 56 percent, down 5 points from April, according to an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

But 58 percent of respondents said Obama and Congress should focus on keeping the budget deficit down, even if takes longer for the economy to recover. The Congressional Budget Office estimates the federal deficit could top $1.8 trillion this fiscal year -- by far a record.

Nearly 70 percent said they had concerns about federal intervention in the economy, including Obama's decision to take an ownership stake in General Motors and the prospect of more government involvement in healthcare. Obama has made healthcare reform a top priority of his administration.

Just 37 percent of respondents said Obama was taking on too many issues and 60 percent said he had to focus on so many things because the United States was facing so many problems.

While Republican criticism of the Democratic president's policies may be scoring points with voters, the strategy does not appear to be benefiting the party.

A CBS News/New York Times poll also released on Wednesday found the Republican Party viewed favorably by only 28 percent of Americans, the lowest rating ever in the poll. In contrast, 57 percent had a favorable view of the Democratic Party.

The CBS/New York Times poll also found a distinct difference in Obama's overall standing and how Americans viewed his major initiatives.

Obama's job approval rating held steady at 63 percent from the previous poll last month, but fewer than half of respondents approved of how he was handling healthcare reform and efforts to save GM and Chrysler, according to the survey.

The poll also found that Americans were alarmed by the amount of money doled out to boost the economy and a majority thought the government should focus instead on reducing the federal deficit.

Both polls also found a majority of Americans opposing Obama's decision to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The NBC/Wall Street Journal survey of 1,008 adults, conducted Friday to Monday, had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.

The CBS/New York Times telephone poll of 895 adults was conducted Friday through Tuesday and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 points.
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Balog

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 11:00:30 AM »
I imagine the 'pubbies would be more popular if they'd stop trying to be Democrat Lite.
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MechAg94

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 11:11:59 AM »
I remember hearing a few months ago that Obama's approval numbers were comparable to Bush's numbers in early 2001, but I don't know if that tracks out to summer.  I think most people, even many die hard Republicans or conservatives, will give a new President the benefit of the doubt early on.  How long that lasts I don't know.
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longeyes

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 12:16:40 PM »
We're only five months into ObamaLand.  Give it a few more months, and see how much discontent there is then.  The end result of Obama's policies will not be a more egalitarian, mellower America but one where far more people are frustrated and at each other's throats as the economy continues to sink, hopes dim, and hard global realities begin to have local impact.  So far it's all just pretty rhetoric; that will change.
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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 12:44:59 PM »
  So far it's all just pretty rhetoric; that will change.

I hope so. =D

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FTA84

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 03:42:07 PM »
I think our 'service based'/'consumer spending' economy is starting to show how such a thing cannot be sustained because it produces no wealth.  This administration (and the last one) seem to be trying to hide this fact by devaluing the dollar and hiding the lack of production of wealth by increasing the trade in money.

A nation of butlers produces no wealth.  A nation, in which, everyone pairs off and exchanges to be the others butler on alternating days.  It produces no wealth because each person is doing the work the other person could of simply done for themselves.

A nation of (perfect) manufacturing creates absolute weath. A nation, in which I can make stoves in 1/10th the time that it'd take you to make a stove, and you can make a car in 1/100th of the time it'd take me to make a car.  This year, I trade you 10 stoves for 1 car.  Wealth is created in the sense that in 1 year, combined we have 1 car and 10 stoves versus having 1/100th of a car and 1/10th of a stove -- effectively useless until the 10 year mark.

A nation of manufacturing and butlers, correctly mixed, pragmatically fixes the problem that I cannot makes stoves 24 hours a day and you cannot create cars 24 hours a day.  The butler saves me 4 hours a day, by doing all the things I need to do myself, which I use to make 1.5 stoves a year, in exchange for 1 stove every 10 years.  At the end of 10 years, we have created wealth because as a pair we have netted 4 more stoves over 10 years. (Here, we must assume that due to the Butler's organizational skills and lack of physical ability he is not better suited to build TVs ... )

We, as a culture, are well on the side of an economy too heavily concentrated in services and not production.  We try to measure our wealth by detecting exchanges in money (I pay you $10 to be my butler and you pay me $10, $20 has changed hands but nothing of value was created.)  Everyone wants to go to college to have a desk job, and today, for the most part, if you have a pulse you can get a college diploma in something from the local community college.  Obama wants to increase this, further devaluing easier degrees from state colleges.  This just creates massive disenfranchisement, as there are too many people walking around with a college diploma thinking they are too good to do manual/productive labor.

This administration will get approval, in terms that I am confident they will devalue the dollar to the point that the (numerical) value of the stock market will have to increase. Thus claiming victory, but everyone will on the other hand, sense the lack of wealth as products they use (all imported from other countries) become more and more out of reach, and the serfs will be displeased.





El Tejon

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 03:52:59 PM »
The real world and the economy will burn off the White Guilt that is keeping his poll numbers high.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 09:09:41 PM »
I think our 'service based'/'consumer spending' economy is starting to show how such a thing cannot be sustained because it produces no wealth.  This administration (and the last one) seem to be trying to hide this fact by devaluing the dollar and hiding the lack of production of wealth by increasing the trade in money.

A nation of butlers produces no wealth.  A nation, in which, everyone pairs off and exchanges to be the others butler on alternating days.  It produces no wealth because each person is doing the work the other person could of simply done for themselves.

A nation of (perfect) manufacturing creates absolute weath. A nation, in which I can make stoves in 1/10th the time that it'd take you to make a stove, and you can make a car in 1/100th of the time it'd take me to make a car.  This year, I trade you 10 stoves for 1 car.  Wealth is created in the sense that in 1 year, combined we have 1 car and 10 stoves versus having 1/100th of a car and 1/10th of a stove -- effectively useless until the 10 year mark.

A nation of manufacturing and butlers, correctly mixed, pragmatically fixes the problem that I cannot makes stoves 24 hours a day and you cannot create cars 24 hours a day.  The butler saves me 4 hours a day, by doing all the things I need to do myself, which I use to make 1.5 stoves a year, in exchange for 1 stove every 10 years.  At the end of 10 years, we have created wealth because as a pair we have netted 4 more stoves over 10 years. (Here, we must assume that due to the Butler's organizational skills and lack of physical ability he is not better suited to build TVs ... )

We, as a culture, are well on the side of an economy too heavily concentrated in services and not production.  We try to measure our wealth by detecting exchanges in money (I pay you $10 to be my butler and you pay me $10, $20 has changed hands but nothing of value was created.)  Everyone wants to go to college to have a desk job, and today, for the most part, if you have a pulse you can get a college diploma in something from the local community college.  Obama wants to increase this, further devaluing easier degrees from state colleges.  This just creates massive disenfranchisement, as there are too many people walking around with a college diploma thinking they are too good to do manual/productive labor.

This administration will get approval, in terms that I am confident they will devalue the dollar to the point that the (numerical) value of the stock market will have to increase. Thus claiming victory, but everyone will on the other hand, sense the lack of wealth as products they use (all imported from other countries) become more and more out of reach, and the serfs will be displeased.

Don't assume that physical items are the only things of value that can be produced.  Services can be just as valuable, if not more valuable, than physical widgets.

FTA84

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 11:28:26 PM »
Don't assume that physical items are the only things of value that can be produced.  Services can be just as valuable, if not more valuable, than physical widgets.

I didn't assume such things.  Obviously an automechanic doesn't "produce" anything but provides a useful service.  Examples cannot encapsulate all possibilities.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 09:22:13 AM »
Repair of a car is a valuable service, and performing repair work produces wealth.  If you trade me 10 car repairs a year and I trade you 1 new software system a year, then we're both wealthier for it. 

Wealth need not be physical.  In an advanced economy wealth usually isn't.  Your example seems to say that only the production and trade of physical widgets makes people wealthier, which isn't true.  It is perfectly natural and expected that as the production of physical items because more efficient and hence cheaper, that the production of valuable non-tangible things rises in prominence in our economy. 

I guess my point is that the trend towards producing human efforts (both physical and intellectual) and away from trivial things like toasters that can be built en-masse on an assembly line by unskilled workers, is a good thing for our economy.

FTA84

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 12:04:25 PM »
Repair of a car is a valuable service, and performing repair work produces wealth.  If you trade me 10 car repairs a year and I trade you 1 new software system a year, then we're both wealthier for it. 

Yes, by reducing the loss of wealth through misfortune, the automechanic creates wealth.  However, he doesn't "produce" anything new.  This is what I mean by not producing yet providing a valuable (= wealth added) service.

Software and automechanic still leave you with something tangible after the transaction, some item you didn't have before you went there and that you couldn't produce as efficiently as the other one.


grey54956

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2009, 09:23:36 PM »
The automechanic does not create wealth.  He only reduces the loss of wealth or value.  This is done by restoring or maintaining the functionality of a vehicle.  However, function is not completely synonymous with wealth or value in this case.  Car market values depreciate over time, regardless of functionality.  So, really all a mechanic does is attempt to slow the inevitable, i.e. prevent the immediate loss of value and restore the vehicle to the previous, more desireable, loss function.

Not to say that their efforts are without value, but they do not actually create new wealth.

Converting raw materials into saleable product creates wealth.  Services typically only modify, restore, or consume existing wealth.
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Ben

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Re: Polls --Concern about Obama on Key Issues
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2009, 09:31:42 PM »
Guys, discussion has moved from politics to economics. The economic discussion is valid and interesting, so please feel free to start a topic in RT and carry on. I'll need to lock this one though.
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