Your high tech TV advice sought.

[Lee]

I'm thinking about finally breaking the 19" TV barrier.  I really don't watch much TV, but the kids watch a fair amount, and my wife is urging me to join the vidiot age.
I've done a fair amount of reading up and went to a few TVRUS stores last weekend.  There are some great deals going on right now on the old Sony rear projection models, and the 60" screens are calling my name...but then there's the newer, albeit smaller, more expensive Hi Rez LCDs and such as well.  I want to stay as far under $3,000 as possible.  If you've been through this lately, what did you learn, what did you buy, and what did you regret, if anything?   

[caseydog]

I did some type and brand research and bought a 37" LG LCD , I'm very happy with it as it fits the room I'm using and has a stunning picture, along with all the features I wanted.

That doesn't mean LCD is right for everyone. Over 46" LCD gets very pricey, many sets don't have a true "black" , more like a dark gray - this matters more to videophile types. Some earlier or cheaper sets have some motion blur with sports or fast action , not as much an issue now as previously, they have thinner glass screens and can be damaged by rambunctious kids. On the upside its very vibrant and does well in well lit rooms with lots of daylight, they run cool , are very light weight , have good anti-glare properties.

Plasma:
Plasma may be a better choice for sets over 46" , it's cheaper than LCD in the big sizes , has very good "true black" but slightly yellow whites, better motion response .Burn in may be an issue , especially in the first 200 hours or so. Glare is a huge problem in well lit rooms, the use thick shiny glass and are heavier than LCD. All but the pricier plasmas have less resolution than LCDs but not to worry you don't sound like a videophile so I don't see you buying a Blueray disc player anytime soon. Really all but the videophiles are fine with 720p/1080i , the priciest of either sets are going to be 1080p resolution , something only supported now by BlueRay , HD-DVD and "some" games on Playstation 3.

Really the picture quality is a toss up between plasma and LCD for lots of folks , it depends on which features your eyes pick up on the easiest.

Rear projections are a steal right now , huge screens for less than a grand , thats because no one wants those massive sets anymore, thin is in. The viewing angles are bad ,aso RPTV's will need some maintenance over their life , convergance of the projectors will drift giving poor focus , the bulbs will dim long before burning out giving progressively poorer brighness and contrast.

DLP: I researched this one the least , it relies on millions of little mirrors to make up the picture , two good sources stated that these are the only HDTV's that one should absolutely buy an extended warranty for -XNAY for me.

As for constants , get a set with at least one HDMI port with HDCP , you'll need it before the TV is worn out, two component inputs , two composite inputs for stuff you have now. Be aware that you will only get HiDef over the Component, cable or HDMI inputs. When shopping ask the salesman to switch the TV to a "Standard def" input and see how it looks , by far most of the stuff out there to watch is still in SD so the TV better handle it well.

Thats all for now , questions are welcome..

Ray

[zahc]

I would only consider, at this point

A tube HDTV such as the 30-34" sony your store probably has kicking around trying to sell. You will not find better picture quality anywhere. Reliable, not too expensive. Did I mention gorgeous picture?

Or

A front projector.

Honestly the flat panels just don't do it for me. My parents just bought a 4000 dollar Sony LCD, and I think it looks like crap. Any display that can't display BLACK is fundamentally flawed. Now plasmas look pretty good, but I can't see spending the dough when you could get 2 times the screen size at 1/4 the price with a nice projector setup.

Another option is just to spend a few hundreds on a big standard definition TV and wait till technology stabilizes and prices come down etc.

[Vodka7]

I agree with Zahc, at least in theory.  In practice, as an apartment dweller who moves at least once a year, I look forward to the day I can brandish a wide assortment of destructive devices against every several hundred pound impossible to hold even with three guys carrying it barely fits up a stairwell CRT that I own.

Really though, the picture on those tube Sony HDTVs is absolutely *beautiful.*

[caseydog]

I would only consider, at this point

A tube HDTV such as the 30-34" sony your store probably has kicking around trying to sell. You will not find better picture quality anywhere. Reliable, not too expensive. Did I mention gorgeous picture?

Or

A front projector.

Honestly the flat panels just don't do it for me. My parents just bought a 4000 dollar Sony LCD, and I think it looks like crap. Any display that can't display BLACK is fundamentally flawed. Now plasmas look pretty good, but I can't see spending the dough when you could get 2 times the screen size at 1/4 the price with a nice projector setup.

Yup a Sony 34" XBR crt is a sweet standard def TV , it also weighs 340# and is 32" deep.

Front projectors are great for movie nights and media rooms in the basement ,but are little use in rooms with no light control for daylight ,  do you really want to darken the livingroom for the kids to watch saturday cartoons ?

People who fell in love with Sony XBR CRT sets automatically turned to Sony when they wanted an LCD , many were disappointed with the black levels and cloudy backlighting , my LG does black very well , better than my JVC 30" CRT on the same signal.

Ray

[Sergeant Bob]

Have you looked into Sony Wega's ? Theyare nice and a whole lot thinner and lighter than a CRT.  I think one person could probably carry one (if he had 6 foot arms) and the prices are pretty good (about $1600 for a 55").

The television is assembled domestically in the USA and weighs approximately 105 lbs. It is 62 inches wide, 19 inches deep, and 37.5 inches tall.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

No TV is worth $3,000.

[Sindawe]

No TV is worth $3,000.

Hmmm... I dunno about that.  Late last summer I dropped by a Circuit City or some such and spotted on display and absolutely gorgeous plasma TV.  The thing was about seven feet long on the horizontal, and four or so on the vertical dimension.  Stunning does poor justice, 'specially since the store way playing The Last Samarai.

I'd happily drop $3,000 on THAT, even though it would dwarf my main room.

When I ran the same mental exercise myself, I ended up with a Sharp unit being the best option.  I'd like a 37" since I want the vertical dimension of the image to be equal too or larger than that displayed on my current 18 y/o 37" CRT TV, but it HAS to fit in the cubby for the TV and be able to pull double duty as a PC monitor for games.  The Sharp had good black levels, pixel response time and input options.

[mtnbkr]

If you're buying new and buying now, don't get anything that isn't HDTV.  Why?  Because our .gov has decreed that all TV (at least the over the air broadcasts) will be HDTV in a couple years. 

Go "widescreen" too. 

It really is better.  I watched Serenity in HD (or BluRay, can't remember which one, but the result is the same) on a nice HD TV at my friend's house and was blown away.  Jet Li's Fearless was teh shiznit too.  

I'm waiting till Widescreen HDTV sets are inexpensive before I replace my 4yo 32" set.

Chris

[Leatherneck]

I bought an LG-brand 46" plasma at Christmas for herself, who watches TV while working at home. So far, so good: $1200 well spent.

TC

[mfree]

All my research keeps pointing me back to Westinghouse.

[HankB]

RPTVs are a bargain - if you get one that's based on a DLP engine, you don't have to worry about multiple projectors getting out of alignment, since they use one lens . . . and there's a relatively smaller distance between pixels than with some of the plasma sets, which can have a "dead zone" that degrades the picture, if you're really picky. Some of the new RPTVs are using high-brightness LEDs for illumination, so lightbulb life isn't an issue any more - Samsung has a 56" diagonal, LED illuminated DLP model that's only about 15" deep.

The new LCDs aren't bad at all, but beware - some are "monitors" only and require a separate tuner, and some use "slow" panels that will show some motion blur.

Plasmas run suprisingly hot, and have a reputation for short life - some will lose as much as half their initial brightness in 3 years.

If buying new, be sure to get an HD set with HDMI and other inputs, and I'd suggest you make sure it's 1080, not 720, resolution.

Tube-based TVs are good, but in larger screen sizes get very heavy. I currently have a 36" tube TV that's about 8 or 9 years old, and unless programming gets a lot better (HA!) I hope I won't have to replace it anytime soon . . .

[Lee]

Thanks for the in-depth advice guys!  I'm finding that the more I look, the more indecisive I become.  All I know for now is that it will be a minimum width of 46" or greater....it's a pretty big room.  My worst fear is spending this kind of cash and then immediately realizing I bought too small. The 3K target is/was to include the TV and some Klipsch speakers...so I was targeting 2000-2400 for the unit itself...which will likely put me back in the Sony RP clearance aisle. 
 
 

[caseydog]

For the others wondering whether to buy an uber cheap SDTV to hold off 5 years and let them get cheaper , well here's why thats not a great idea in 2007:


Congress and President Bush have approved legislation requiring that all analog TV broadcasts in the U.S. cease by February 17, 2009. Most of the nation's commercial and public broadcast TV stations are already simulcasting digital and analog signals, so we can all still tune in our favorite shows whether we're watching a brand-new HDTV or a set that's 20 years old. That will change in 2009. After the shutoff date, any standard TV (analog-only tuner) that isn't also connected to a cable, satellite, or digital-to-analog converter box will go dark.

As the transition to digital TV is completed over the next few years, the amount and availability of digital HDTV programs will expand very quickly. If you're shopping for a new TV  especially if it will be your main TV  don't invest any more money in the analog past.

[zahc]

Re: caseydog et al

You have reminded me that my recommendations were specific. To me, a TV is for watching movies and playing games on. I never watch TV, so nothing TV related concerns me. It's true that front projectors may not be practical for someone who actually wants to watch TV. But I'm convinced that nowadays they are really the cat's ass for home theater at any price range.

[Vodka7]

Congress and President Bush have approved legislation requiring that all analog TV broadcasts in the U.S. cease by February 17, 2009.

Just a few further clarifications:  this *only* applies to over-the-air, watching TV with the bunny ears signals.  The FTC wants to reclaim the bandwidth the providers are using for analog signals.  This does not affect analog signals being sent through the cable line, just the ones sent through the air.  The bunny ear people, however, will be able to buy digital-to-analog converters to sit in-between their bunny ears and their SDTV set, and the government is spending an enormous amount on coupons citizens will be able to use to purchase said converters.

I agree with caseydog that buying a SDTV right now is not a good idea, but don't think that your SDTV is just going to "go dark" on Feb 18th, 2009.  If you have cable or satellite, you don't need to do anything.  If you use bunny-ears, you'll need to buy a government subsidized adapter for each TV.

[Firethorn]

I agree with caseydog that buying a SDTV right now is not a good idea, but don't think that your SDTV is just going to "go dark" on Feb 18th, 2009.  If you have cable or satellite, you don't need to do anything.  If you use bunny-ears, you'll need to buy a government subsidized adapter for each TV.

Or just make sure that the SDTV that you buy today comes with the digital tuner.  This wasn't prevelant a couple years ago, but all the TVs I've seen at Walmart in the last year have had the tuner.  Oddly enough though, I DIDN'T see digital tuners in the Best Buy SDTVs.  Then again, their prices were noticably higher so I didn't look hard.

The tuner will scale down HDTV broadcasts to fit. 

Oddly enough, I approve of this subsidy because the freed up bandwidth will open up new commercial development to make my life better, and will easily be paid for through the frequency auction.

[Lee]

The tuner will scale down HDTV broadcasts to fit.

Hmmm...good point.  Thanks.  Since I'll probably live in suberbia the rest of my life, I hadn't really put alot of wieght on the tuner aspect.

[Gewehr98]

I'm seeing some disinformation here.

Plasmas run suprisingly hot, and have a reputation for short life - some will lose as much as half their initial brightness in 3 years.

Honestly the flat panels just don't do it for me. My parents just bought a 4000 dollar Sony LCD, and I think it looks like crap. Any display that can't display BLACK is fundamentally flawed. Now plasmas look pretty good, but I can't see spending the dough when you could get 2 times the screen size at 1/4 the price with a nice projector setup.

Plasma may be a better choice for sets over 46" , it's cheaper than LCD in the big sizes , has very good "true black" but slightly yellow whites, better motion response .Burn in may be an issue , especially in the first 200 hours or so. Glare is a huge problem in well lit rooms, the use thick shiny glass and are heavier than LCD.

I shopped around for a long time, visiting stores like Circuit City, American TV, and drilling through Consumer Reports and online reviews.  I bought the Hitachi 42" Plasma, as seen on the TV commercials with the lady walking the leopard via jeweled leash.  I'm into it for the tune of $1,400.00. 

http://www.hitachi.us/tv/browse/plasma/plasma/42hds69.shtml

Unless Hitachi sold everybody else a 42HDS69 with a hi-glare glass screen, I don't have a problem with strong lighting in my home.  The living room window is just to the right of my TV/audio rack, and the afternoon sun floods through the blinds onto the plasma screen at times.  Hitachi calls it their "Natural Color Anti-Reflective Glass Screen".  I just know I don't experience much glare.  Also, depending on day/night room brightness, I have a function called "Day/Night Picture Memory", which adjusts brightness levels to three different settings.

Now, I'm very much interested in that "Short lifespan" thing, and where it came from.  That was one of the big decisions in my purchasing my Hitachi plasma.  I've replaced backlights in LCD laptop screens, and had "dead pixels" crop up in LCD monitors on the home network.  CRT televisions typically have a half-life of 25,000 hours. Plasmas rate their half-lives in terms of 30,000 to 60,000 hours.  If you watch 4-6 hours of TV a day, that means your TV will last you about 16 years.  By then, you'll be able to afford another one, I'm sure.

Summary here:

http://www.flattvpeople.com/tutorials/lcd-vs-plasma.asp

Regardless, do your homework.  I did mine, and settled on a plasma.

[caseydog]

Gewehr , some plasma manufacturers are "getting it" that daylight glare is an issue , they still use the heavy glass but give it an anti-reflective coating, but most brands on the market are still "glossy". I bought my LCD bout 3 months before you got your plasma , at that time all the sets at the local CC and Bestbuy were hi-gloss, and my room has a ton of daylight.

Ray

[Firethorn]

The tuner will scale down HDTV broadcasts to fit.

Hmmm...good point.  Thanks.  Since I'll probably live in suberbia the rest of my life, I hadn't really put alot of wieght on the tuner aspect.

Oops...  Almost forgot:  Don't just look for a digital tuner; look for a tuner that does digital broadcasts.

'Digital Tuner' on a box may merely mean that the tuning is done electronicly, not via manual adjustments on a knob.

I think the term for the new broadcast system is 'ATSC', 'SDTV' works as well.

[caseydog]

Yup , ATSC is the digital broadcast tuner acronym , A QAM tuner is for digital over cable (sometimes called Clear QAM) , if you get an HDTV with QAM now , many cable companies are leaving non-pay HDTV channels "in the clear" on their cable networks. If you currently use a digital cable box you can trade it in for the Hi-Def version , here on Comcast the HD version does not cost extra, YMMV with your cable company.

Ray

[Lee]

Well...I made the commitment tonight and bought this one. Got it for $1799 at the local Great Indoors Store.  Thanks for all the advice!

 
http://www4.shopping.com/xPC-Sony-Sony-KDS-60A2000
Features:

- Includes: remote control and 2 AA batteries

- 60" Widescreen

- 16:9 Aspect Ratio

- SXRD Technology

- Supports 720p, 1080i, & 1080p

- Supports 1080p natively with a resolution of 1920x1080

- NTSC/ATSC hybrid with Clear QAM (8 VSB)

- Video Ports - 2 HDMI Inputs (rear - 1 w/ audio), 3 Component Inputs (1 front), 1 S-Video Input (rear), 3 Composite Inputs (1 front), & 1 PC Video Input (rear)

- Audio Ports - 1 Digital Optical Out (rear), 5 Analog Audio Inputs (1 front), 1 Audio Out (rear - variable/fixed), & 1 PC Audio Input (rear)

- Advanced Iris - A special Sony feature that helps to improve brightness and contrast

- CineMotion Reverse 3:2 Pulldown Technology

- Picture and Picture

- Color Temperature

- 3D Digital Comb Filter

- Game Mode

- Noise Reduction

- Picture Modes: Vivid, Standard, Custom

- Wide Modes - Wide Zoom, Normal, Full, & Zoom

- Dolby Digital Support

- MTS Stereo Decoder

- SRS TruSurround XT Audio Effect

- A/V Synch

- Auto Channel Programming

- Programmable Timer

- Sleep Timer - 15, 30, 45, 60, 90, Off (2 Event)

- Picture Freeze

Details:

60" SXRD projection TV: Get a big and remarkably beautiful picture with Sonys 60 SXRD television. SXRD is Sonys proprietary version of the LCoS screen, a stunning video technology that displays pixels (screen dots) very tightly for a picture is incredibly smooth and film-like. In addition to having outstanding pixel fill, SXRD TVs also offers superb black levels and image contrast (5000:1), so TV images are bold, brilliant, and never dull.

HDTV (1080p): The KDS-60A2000 offers the highest TV definition available1080pfor amazing picture sharpness and detail. When used in combination with 1080p sources (such as the Blu-ray Disc player), you get the sharpest video possible. The TV comes with a built-in digital (ATSC) tuner, so you can watch over-the-air HD programming right out of the box.

Widescreen: Watch movies in their natural cinematic format for the ultimate home theater experience.

Enhanced picture: Enjoy the superior picture produced by Sonys WEGA Engine. Unlike the image processors in some TVs, the WEGA engine is an intelligent video technology that keeps TV signals entirely digital, so the picture quality remains very high. WEGA also uses a noise-blocking filter to prevent picture fuzziness and a dynamic contrast adjuster that automatically selects the best contrast level for the scene youre viewingso dark scenes arent too dark and bright scenes arent too bright. There is also a setting (Advanced Iris) that allows you to adjust the screen to best fit your rooms ambient lighting.

Surround Sound: Get crisp audio to go with your sharp picture. The TV features SRS® TruSurround® XT and Dolby Digital for a great home theater experience.

A/V versatility: The KDS-60A2000 comes equipped with two wideband HDMI inputs which offer a high-quality connection and the sharpest possible picture. Also includes component video, composite video, S-video, digital audio out, RF and PC connections.
 
Specifications:

Display Panel 
  Product Type:  LCOS Projection TV
  Diagonal Screen Size:  60 in
  Aspect Ratio:  16:9 (Widescreen)
  Resolution:  1920 x 1080
  Contrast Ratio:  10000:1
  Progressive Scan:  Yes
 
Broadcast Standards 
  Broadcast Format Displayed:  1080p (HDTV)
  Broadcast Format Supported:  1080i (HDTV), 480i (SDTV), 480p (EDTV), 720p (HDTV)
  Video Broadcast Standards:  ATSC (Digital), NTSC (analog)
  HDTV Compatible:  Yes
  HDTV Built-in Tuner:  Yes
 
Interface 
  Input:  A/V (Composite), Analog Coaxial(RF), Audio - Line In (1/8" Mini), Component Video, Front A/V (Composite), HDMI, S-Video, Video - 15 pin High-Density D-shell (VGA)
  Output:  Digital Optical, Variable/Fixed Audio
 
Picture Features 
  Comb Filter:  3D Digital
  Picture in Picture:  Advanced PIP Functions
 
Other Features 
  General Features:  3/2 Pulldown, Channel Label, Closed Caption, Multi-Language Menu
  Features:  SAP
  Audio Format Supported:  MTS Stereo, SRS
  Remote Control:  Universal Remote
 
Dimensions 
  Height:  38.9 in
  Width:  55.6 in
  Depth:  20.2 in
  Weight:  94.87 lbs
 
Warranty 
  Warranty Information:  1 Year Limited Warranty

For more detailed specification and images please visit www.sonystyle.com

[Sergeant Bob]

Nice TV! Good deal you got too!