Teh maths is terr'isms!

[Fly320s]

She is the one who started it by being stupid.

As far as the flight crew, I would be curious what the flight crew is required to do in these cases.  I bet they are required to report everything like this to someone higher before they even check it out.  These are govt regulations and corporate CYA rules.  The flight crew likely had no choice in the matter.  It probably takes 2 hours just to go through all the steps of some security procedure even if there is no threat. 

Guess I'll weigh in on this one.

I don't think I am required to contact a supervisor or security or make a report to the police.  I am required to fill out a company-only report when things happen that may "cause the general public to ask questions or be concerned."

We have a lot of latitude about "controlling" the customers.  I would be hesitant to call for a supervisor or police in this case, unless the woman was making a big stink about it.  If she was causing a scene I probably would have moved the woman to a different seat, or removed the woman from the plane, once I figured out what was going on.

I would say she overreacted, and she did, but not too much, really.  Every airport has signs and announcements saying, "If you see something, say something."  The current culture is to report on anything suspicious without actually trying to apply logic and reason.  The vast majority of passengers check their brains with their bags.  They don't have any idea of how an airline runs, nor do they care.  All they care about is getting from A to B on time and cheaply.  Delays, security issues, maintenance issues, etc. just don't matter to them.  They are very much like children and cattle; they must be constantly directed and told what to do.  That lady was told "see something, say something" by the TSA, CNN, Fox news, society as a whole, so she spoke up.  She was never told to apply logic to her surroundings and think before speaking.

Another part of the problem is the Flight Attendant.  Some of them have very big egos/attitudes when it comes to dealing with customers.  It could be that the woman told a FA who then told the Captain.  Maybe the FA expressed her own concern about the Math Bomber.  If she did, then the Captain would have no choice but to call in supervisors and police.  Basically, one or two people can get anyone kicked off a plane just by being concerned.

[MechAg94]

I guess I better be careful writing cursive also since many of the younger generation can't read it. 

[roo_ster]

Well there was that one guy that wore a black and white Houndstooth* scarf, and was indeed bent on world domination.




* I knew I'd remember the name of that pattern.

Seriously, for those that didn't click through, THIS is the scary terrorist scarf:


Which there is no evidence he was even wearing on the plane.

So if we're keeping track: Not the right material, not the right shape, and not the right pattern.  But yep, scary and worth costing people thousands of dollars over. 

Thumbs up to roo_ster! You keep reporting your suspicions to the NKVD.  What's the worst that could happen?

Yup, that looks like a scarf.  Color pattern still could be mistaken, say, by the same sort who are not able to discern calc/diffeq from arabic script.

Of course, you ignore the other bits of data Ms Mathishard had to work with:

Let us look again at what the gal of admittedly limited experience and cognitive talent had to work with:
0. Possible article of clothing indicating MENA origin/sympathies.
1. Phenotype in range of MENA origin.
2. Unwilling to engage in small talk with a woman.
3. Foreign accent.
4. Writing in unintelligible script that reminded the gal of arabic.

Recall, my position is that I thought it inappropriate to fine or jail Ms Mathishard for reporting her suspicions, as her suspicions seemed reasonable to her.  I think I am on solid ground, there. 

Really, unless we are going to insist women go about chaperoned by their menfolk, we are going to have to live with timorous women who run with their gut/intuition and have a lower tolerance for risk.  [Saw that this weekend on the rugby pitch.  Some of moms got bent out of shape at tackles that were in no way unsportsmanlike, but were a bit ugly.  It took the menfolk to calm things down.]

What's the worst that could happen?  Well, empirically it looks like a two hour delay and a quick interview by security-folk that settles the issue as a nothingburger.

[Perd Hapley]

I have to wonder what the response would be if the lady saw the guy reading a gun magazine and raised concerns about him having a gun on the plane.

Chris

Because that's practically the same thing.

[mtnbkr]

Because that's practically the same thing.

To the lady in the OP, it may very well be.  However, it would be our ox being gored instead of "swarthy foreigners".

Chris

[cordex]

Because that's practically the same thing.

Pretty much.

In both cases an entirely legal, moral, ethical and mundane activity is ignorantly reported by a pearl-clutching alarmist as an indicator of tangentially related illegal activity.

[roo_ster]

Pretty much.

In both cases an entirely legal, moral, ethical and mundane activity is ignorantly reported by a pearl-clutching alarmist as an indicator of tangentially related illegal activity.

Context and past performance matters, even to pearl-clutchers. 

When was the last time a stereotypical gunnie or tactical beard with their copy of SWAT hijacked a plane in a spectacular, mass-murdering fashion?  Yeah, never.  OTOH, the wonderful-peace-loving adherents of Islam have a bit of a reputation in that regard. 

To put a gunnie spin on it, think about folk OK with CCWs out in the wild generally, but not OK with CCW in church.  A different context, a different set of expectations, a different set of emotional baggage.

[KD5NRH]

Yup, that looks like a scarf.  Color pattern still could be mistaken, say, by the same sort who are not able to discern calc/diffeq from arabic script.

Or busy Italians from Arabs with something to hide.

Menzio said there were other factors that may have led to a misunderstanding. The blond-haired 30-something woman asked if Syracuse was home for him, and he answered curtly. He avoided other questions. He seemed, according to the Post, "perhaps too laser-focused" on his notepad.

Of course, part of it is that, no matter how many people try to get it through her head, there's nothing wrong with people who don't want to chitchat.  I've run into plenty of these arrogant busybodies who just can't comprehend that, to most of the world, there are more pressing matters than hearing about their opinion of a TV show, their bad hair day, their dog's illness, etc.

[cordex]

Context and past performance matters, even to pearl-clutchers. 

When was the last time a stereotypical gunnie or tactical beard with their copy of SWAT hijacked a plane in a spectacular, mass-murdering fashion?  Yeah, never.  OTOH, the wonderful-peace-loving adherents of Islam have a bit of a reputation in that regard. 

If Swarthy McMathmatics PhD. were doing something - anything really - that could be construed as dangerous or indicative that he was a threat then you might have had a point.  But he wasn't, and I'm not sure how delaying every flight that might have an Arab or Muslim on it is going to help anything.

As for the likelihood of Tactical Ted blowing up the plane, that wasn't the scenario, was it?

[White Horseradish]

Context and past performance matters, even to pearl-clutchers. 

When was the last time a stereotypical gunnie or tactical beard with their copy of SWAT hijacked a plane in a spectacular, mass-murdering fashion?  Yeah, never.  OTOH, the wonderful-peace-loving adherents of Islam have a bit of a reputation in that regard. 

They hijacked planes "in a spectacular, mass-murdering fashion" by writing on tablets? Do tell.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Really, unless we are going to insist women go about chaperoned by their menfolk, we are going to have to live with timorous women who run with their gut/intuition and have a lower tolerance for risk.  [Saw that this weekend on the rugby pitch.  Some of moms got bent out of shape at tackles that were in no way unsportsmanlike, but were a bit ugly.  It took the menfolk to calm things down.]

Excuse you?

Step up and teach your daughters not to be timorous and maybe we can all get along.  

Dumbasses are common in both genders, these days largely due to the pussification of society in general. Don't you dare make this into 'little woman are the problem'

[Perd Hapley]

If Swarthy McMathmatics PhD. were doing something - anything really - that could be construed as dangerous or indicative that he was a threat then you might have had a point.  But he wasn't, and I'm not sure how delaying every flight that might have an Arab or Muslim on it is going to help anything.

As for the likelihood of Tactical Ted blowing up the plane, that wasn't the scenario, was it?

The point is that being scared of Muslims on your airplane has a certain historical justification. Being scared of a potential gun-owner; not so much.

[MechAg94]

Yup, that looks like a scarf.  Color pattern still could be mistaken, say, by the same sort who are not able to discern calc/diffeq from arabic script.

Of course, you ignore the other bits of data Ms Mathishard had to work with:
Recall, my position is that I thought it inappropriate to fine or jail Ms Mathishard for reporting her suspicions, as her suspicions seemed reasonable to her.  I think I am on solid ground, there. 

Really, unless we are going to insist women go about chaperoned by their menfolk, we are going to have to live with timorous women who run with their gut/intuition and have a lower tolerance for risk.  [Saw that this weekend on the rugby pitch.  Some of moms got bent out of shape at tackles that were in no way unsportsmanlike, but were a bit ugly.  It took the menfolk to calm things down.]

What's the worst that could happen?  Well, empirically it looks like a two hour delay and a quick interview by security-folk that settles the issue as a nothingburger.

Maybe not fine her, but perhaps the other passengers could all slap her as they left the plane.  Reporting real suspicions is great, but stupidity should have some pain/consequences to it. 

[cordex]

The point is that being scared of Muslims on your airplane has a certain historical justification. Being scared of a potential gun-owner; not so much.

So we're back to delaying every flight that might have an Arab or Muslim on it, yes?

Also, if we're going to play that game, then fearing potential gun owners in day to day life based on the thousands of gun murders that happen every year is totally reasonable, right?

[White Horseradish]

The point is that being scared of Muslims on your airplane has a certain historical justification. Being scared of a potential gun-owner; not so much.

People scared of gun owners point to every high-profile shooting as their justification.

Remember, to them there is no distinction between legal owner and armed criminal. There is only man with a gun.

[Ron]

So we're back to delaying every flight that might have an Arab or Muslim on it, yes?

Also, if we're going to play that game, then fearing potential gun owners in day to day life based on the thousands of gun murders that happen every year is totally reasonable, right?

Going back to comments I made earlier, how about a protocol for flight crews to follow that would weed out false alarms?

Why is it one (ignore passengers who fit the pattern)? or the other (inconvenience everyone and humiliate innocents)? 

[zxcvbob]

Why is it one (ignore passengers who fit the pattern)? or the other (inconvenience everyone and humiliate innocents)? 

Why not do both!   

[Perd Hapley]

So we're back to delaying every flight that might have an Arab or Muslim on it, yes?

Also, if we're going to play that game, then fearing potential gun owners in day to day life based on the thousands of gun murders that happen every year is totally reasonable, right?

People scared of gun owners point to every high-profile shooting as their justification.

Remember, to them there is no distinction between legal owner and armed criminal. There is only man with a gun.

You both fail at drawing reasonable conclusions. Reminds me of a lady on an airplane, recently...

You both win at jumping to conclusions arriving at conclusions from a nearby parallel universe! Congratulations!

In recent history, Muslims have notoriously hijacked planes in the name of Islam. No one has hijacked a plane in the name of Gun-ism. Or at least not that anyone's aware of. Hence the mathophobic lady's overreaction was plausible (and not in the good sense of the term (look it up)). The same overreaction to a gun magazine would skip past the plausible, and into the fantasy-based.

[roo_ster]

Excuse you?

Step up and teach your daughters not to be timorous and maybe we can all get along.  

Dumbasses are common in both genders, these days largely due to the pussification of society in general. Don't you dare make this into 'little woman are the problem'

"Little women" are not necessarily THE problem, but reality is what it is.  Women are more timorous and risk averse than men, on average, and more likely to verbalize their fears.  Even after a century's worth of feminization of the culture and deliberate emasculation by the cultural arbiters.  That is one reason Ann Coulter thinks it was a bad idea to give women the vote, since they are more likely to vote for socialism out of risk aversion. 

As for my own children, I take Aristotle's wisdom to heart, "One becomes brave by doing brave deeds," and encourage them to progressively bolder acts as they grow.  That rugby tournament?  Both my son and daughter participated.

[cordex]

Why is it one (ignore passengers who fit the pattern)? or the other (inconvenience everyone and humiliate innocents)? 

The reason it is one or the other in this case is because the "pattern" (based on observations that were ignorantly wrong, but let's continue to ignore that for the moment) being defended by some APS members as reasonable concerns are so laughably broad as to be meaningless.  The hijackers were all men, but we don't stop flights because someone looks like a guy.  Interestingly, 14 of the 19 suspected hijackers had a Florida residence, which means that going by that attack a given Florida resident was something like 73 times more likely to be involved in the September 11th attack than a given Muslim.

To defend this case is to say that simply the presence of a suspected Muslim on a plane is sufficient cause to be concerned.  That is patently ridiculous. 

In recent history, Muslims have notoriously hijacked planes in the name of Islam. No one has hijacked a plane in the name of Gun-ism. Or at least not that anyone's aware of. Hence the mathophobic lady's overreaction was plausible (and not in the good sense of the term (look it up)). The same overreaction to a gun magazine would skip past the plausible, and into the fantasy-based.

You're conflating scenarios, friend.  No one was saying she should be afraid that a guy with a gun magazine would hijack the plane, just that he might be more likely to illegally possess a gun on the flight.

I have to wonder what the response would be if the lady saw the guy reading a gun magazine and raised concerns about him having a gun on the plane.

Gun owners possessing guns on planes has happened at least once that I recall in the past year.

[Perd Hapley]

You're conflating scenarios, friend.  No one was saying she should be afraid that a guy with a gun magazine would hijack the plane, just that he might be more likely to illegally possess a gun on the flight.Gun owners possessing guns on planes has happened at least once that I recall in the past year.

That works, too. Alerting security to a potential malum prohibitum due to reading material would be lots more dumber than alerting security to the presence of a possible hijacker (and we're still ignoring the ignorant wrong-ness of her observation).

[BlueStarLizzard]

"Little women" are not necessarily THE problem, but reality is what it is.  Women are more timorous and risk averse than men, on average, and more likely to verbalize their fears.  Even after a century's worth of feminization of the culture and deliberate emasculation by the cultural arbiters.  That is one reason Ann Coulter thinks it was a bad idea to give women the vote, since they are more likely to vote for socialism out of risk aversion. 

As for my own children, I take Aristotle's wisdom to heart, "One becomes brave by doing brave deeds," and encourage them to progressively bolder acts as they grow.  That rugby tournament?  Both my son and daughter participated.

   woman were never actually supported to take on real 'masculine' roles, only the window dressings of pants and jobs. If woman were actually that naturally timid and risk adverse, the human species would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

[BryanP]

Coming late to the party, I'll just say that the woman was a fsking idiot and should be publicly humiliated. Now there's an idea. You can rat out people, but by god you won't do it anonymously. If you're right, you can be publicly lauded as a hero. Or in this case, publicly mocked and scorned by anyone with the half a brain she do obviously lacks.

[Perd Hapley]

  woman were never actually supported to take on real 'masculine' roles, only the window dressings of pants and jobs. If woman were actually that naturally timid and risk adverse, the human species would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

Are they too timid and risk-averse to take on masculine roles, w/o support?

[BlueStarLizzard]

Are they too timid and risk-averse to take on masculine roles, w/o support?

Well, you didn't become the scapegoat without support. So what did your parents do to you to mess you up so bad?


Or, I could say, don't be stupid. You know what I'm talking about, you just don't like it because it doesn't fit in your whole little "look at me, I should be allowed to the manly man to save little woman from herself" narrative. Rad fems on one side of the coin and jerks like you and rooster on the other and we wonder why gender is so screwed up in this country.