Author Topic: AR-15 Handguards  (Read 2549 times)

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2020, 04:59:56 PM »
Dang. wish we weren't on opposite ends of the country, I'd be able to help you in person.   As others have pointed out, there's a lot of possible problems, and troubleshooting via forum is challenging.    It could be something simple like your gas tube is somehow a little loose.  Could be carbon fouling in the gas key/gas rings. Could be a bit of dirt/debris rubbing against the bolt causing it to slow down just enough to not cycle properly. Not trying to be pedantic or a smart ass, but there's probably over a dozen different possible causes, and without knowing what to look for or going hands on with the rifle to try to diagnose it, it's gonna be kinda tough to fix over the internet.  Honestly your best bet is going to be to take it to a competent gunsmith and have them look at it.
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2020, 05:04:30 PM »
"and without knowing what to look for or going hands on with the rifle to try to diagnose it, it's gonna be kinda tough to fix over the internet."

WELL WHAT THE HELL GOOD ARE YOU, THEN?

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


"Honestly your best bet is going to be to take it to a competent gunsmith and have them look at it."

Oddly, I prefer you incompetent (incontinent?) bastards...


I recognize that there could be multiple issues, and that the advice here is worth exactly what I pay for it.

But, as I noted, a number of people have all mentioned the same things as the first thing to look at.

I did run one of the long pipe cleaners down the gas tube and it came out nice and clean, so I don't think that's the issue. Or at least I hope it's not.
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bedlamite

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2020, 05:07:20 PM »

I did run one of the long pipe cleaners down the gas tube and it came out nice and clean, so I don't think that's the issue. Or at least I hope it's not.

That might have actually made the problem worse.
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2020, 05:09:36 PM »
"That might have made the problem worse."

Actually, it did absolutely nothing.

Failure rate/type of failures didn't change.

I know that's a controversial step, but I figured I had absolutely nothing to lose.


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WLJ

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2020, 05:14:48 PM »
It's hopelessly broke and worthless. As a friend I'll take it off your hands but you have to pay shipping and my FFL fee.
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Fly320s

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2020, 07:14:09 PM »

A few years ago, after cycling through about 700 rounds, it all of a sudden became unreliable. It would only partially eject the spent case.

Could you give more info on that?

Does the empty brass get hung up in the chamber or hung up somewhere between the chamber and the ejection port?

Does the bolt travel far enough rearward to pick up a fresh round from the magazine?
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bedlamite

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2020, 07:30:58 PM »
Does the bolt travel far enough rearward to pick up a fresh round from the magazine?

Or lock open on an empty mag?
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MechAg94

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2020, 11:13:08 PM »
Dumb question but have you completely field stripped the bolt carrier group?  

Just asking because I once had a small sliver of brass get jammed alongside the bolt inside the carrier.  Not sure how it got there, but I was shooting crappy gun show ammo in an Armalite gun that I thankfully no longer have.  I did a field strip and found that sliver of brass.  I had to learn to buy better magazines at that time also.

post a bunch of pictures so we can tell you more stuff you might be doing wrong.   =)
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2020, 12:33:47 AM »
Honestly, 700 rounds is probably not enough to foul the gas system to the point that it would fail to extract/eject.  Unless it's 700 rounds of the absolutely filthiest, dirtiest, crap ammo that belches smoke like blackpowder.

If you're running blackpowder .223/5.56, then we got a whole other problem.  :D

Honestly, I don't think your problem is likely to be in the gas system itself (gas port, block, tube).

So lets start working our way back through the gas system.

This gentleman has a *lot* of knowledge of the AR platform, and he's got a lot of specialized tools that are designed to inspect and gauge the quality of an AR.   

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=school+of+the+american+rifle+bcg

Watch one or two of these videos.  You'll see a couple of tests that you can do yourself, at home, without any specialized tools.  Those will give you a little bit of an idea on what to look at and check on your BCG.

You many not have the tooling, inclination or desire to check some of theses things the way he does, but take a second and try to wiggle the gas key around and see if it's loose.  Test the gas ring tension.  Pull the bolt and inspect it, see if there's any loose debris caught in there.   Check that the gas path through the gas key is clear (he uses a piece of weedeater string, but anything rigid enough to thread through there will work).  Let us know what you find.  That would be where I would start.

Look at/clean the upper receiver/bcg.  Check for loose debris there like MechAg posted.  Check the buffer/buffer spring - see if something has gotten trapped back there that's binding that.

When you use the charging handle to chamber a round, does it feel rough or gritty?  does it feel like something is dragging and creating more friction there than usual?

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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2020, 12:48:56 AM »
This video in particular shows the test for the gas ring tension - it starts at the 20 second mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mebExLuNDDQ&ab_channel=SchooloftheAmericanRifle
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2020, 07:02:02 AM »
It's hopelessly broke and worthless. As a friend I'll take it off your hands but you have to pay shipping and my FFL fee.

Sure, I'll be happy to pay those fees for you... Once I get your check for $10,000. And it doesn't bounce.
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2020, 07:02:49 AM »
Could you give more info on that?

Does the empty brass get hung up in the chamber or hung up somewhere between the chamber and the ejection port?

Does the bolt travel far enough rearward to pick up a fresh round from the magazine?

To be honest, I can't remember exactly how it was hanging up it's been so long since I've shot it.
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2020, 07:08:50 AM »
OK, I pulled it out last night.

1. The ammo I was shooting was surplus Royal Ordnance Radway Green -- British stuff that at the time was considered to be some of the best available. Very clean. Still have about 2,000 rounds of it left.

2. The gun was very thoroughly stripped and cleaned when this problem started. No change in how it was operating.

3. The carrier handle/bolt group moves smoothly.

4. The gas key is tight and staked in place. No wiggle.

5. The small pin in the sight/gasblock assembly is in place.

6. Try as I might, I could NOT get the Delta ring pulled back far enough to release the handguards. I've got to watch some videos on that to see if there are any tips on that thing.

7. I put it back in the safe and pulled out the SKS with 100 rounds of ammo on clips in case of post election issues. 
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dogmush

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2020, 07:58:48 AM »

6. Try as I might, I could NOT get the Delta ring pulled back far enough to release the handguards. I've got to watch some videos on that to see if there are any tips on that thing.
 

They are just a pain in the ass the first couple times.  Lots of cussing, and tilting it so that you are only trying one handguard at a time, then more cussing.   A "tool" does exist for it for like $10 or $15 bucks but I've always been able to wrestle them of the once every 5 years I need to.

What kind of gas block do you have? 

K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2020, 09:40:00 AM »
"What kind of gas block do you have?"

The kind that is integral with the front sight assembly.
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MechAg94

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2020, 09:52:16 AM »
They are just a pain in the ass the first couple times.  Lots of cussing, and tilting it so that you are only trying one handguard at a time, then more cussing.   A "tool" does exist for it for like $10 or $15 bucks but I've always been able to wrestle them of the once every 5 years I need to.

What kind of gas block do you have? 
I have that tool and it was useful with one rifle I had.  I changed handguards on a couple rifles recently and didn't use it.  You do have to get some leverage on that delta ring.
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2020, 10:09:36 AM »
"You do have to get some leverage on that delta ring."

Yep, and that's what was stymieing me... I needed both hands to pull the ring down to where it would clear the bottom of the handguard, but the second I took one hand off, I couldn't hold the ring back and it slipped back up.
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dogmush

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2020, 10:16:23 AM »
"What kind of gas block do you have?"

The kind that is integral with the front sight assembly.

So if you have a taper pinned front sight base, the gas key is tight and correctly staked, the gas tube is unobstructed and tight in the FSB, and the gas rings are tight, you've kinda exhausted the easy to diagnose and fix things.  If it had never run right, I'd say that the FSB was installed incorrectly in relation to the gas port, but it ran and then stopped, and those taper pins don't really move.  That's pretty much the whole gas system.

Looking back on when you described the problem.  You said after 700 rounds it would only partially eject the case?  It extracted it from the chamber, but didn't spit it out the side of the gun, then the BCG went back forward with the empty case on the bolt?  Is that right?  Short stroking is the obvious, but you might also look at the ejector and make sure it's got tension.

Other then that I would probably need the upper in my hands to diagnose.  Hi res pictures of the FSB and gas tube might help us remote diagnose it too.

K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2020, 11:16:53 AM »
Yeah, I expect I'll end up taking it to a gunsmith to figure out...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2020, 11:41:01 AM »

Quote
Try as I might, I could NOT get the Delta ring pulled back far enough to release the handguards. I've got to watch some videos on that to see if there are any tips on that thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aULvwJsJeo
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2020, 11:46:02 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aULvwJsJeo

Aw *expletive deleted*it! It's that simple?

I guess I shouldn't have broken out the sawzall...  :rofl:
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2020, 11:52:20 AM »
Mike, I didn't see if you had posted an answer on that, but did you get an opportunity to check the gas ring tension?  If it's too loose gas could be blowing past it and not giving the bolt enough momentum to cycle properly. 
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K Frame

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2020, 11:58:38 AM »
I've got to watch a video on how to check the gas ring tension before... I can check the gas ring tension.
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TommyGunn

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2020, 12:20:21 PM »
"You do have to get some leverage on that delta ring."

Yep, and that's what was stymieing me... I needed both hands to pull the ring down to where it would clear the bottom of the handguard, but the second I took one hand off, I couldn't hold the ring back and it slipped back up.

Ruger has a proprietary delta ring that simply unscrews.   It's GREAT!!!!!!  But of course it entails buying the Ruger 556.   [popcorn]
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: AR-15 Handguards
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2020, 01:27:22 PM »
I've got to watch a video on how to check the gas ring tension before... I can check the gas ring tension.

This video in particular shows the test for the gas ring tension - it starts at the 20 second mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mebExLuNDDQ&ab_channel=SchooloftheAmericanRifle
Are you a cook, or a RIFLEMAN?  Find out at Appleseed!

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