Author Topic: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?  (Read 5271 times)

mountainclmbr

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Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« on: January 03, 2007, 07:43:30 AM »
My total contributions to SS and Medicare, including employers matching, is $216,000.00. If I were able to invest and get the returns I have gotten on my 401K, this amount would be worth close to $2M today. My monthly SS benefit, in 15 years when I could first collect, would not even make my house payment even if income taxes were not taken out. Does anyone except me think this is a lousy system?
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280plus

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 07:55:16 AM »
Yes, I do.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

HankB

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 08:07:53 AM »
Cry me a river.

Some years back Fortune magazine had a column called "Keeping Up." I remember one topic was the rate of return on Social Security.

They assumed a guy retiring that year, had he paid the maximum amount annually during his entire working life, would have contributed a hefty chunk of money . . . matched by his employer, of course.

If the money had been invested at a 3% rate of return, the accumulated sum (contributions plus compound interest) would allow the new retiree to purchase a lifetime annuity which would pay him 75% more than the maximum Social Security benefit - for life!

If anyone OTHER than the government were running this kind of a Ponzi scheme, they'd be locked up. And now there are rumors that the Bushmen want to extend SS benefits to foreigners, including illegal aliens!  :cuss:  :barf: :banghead: angry
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 08:13:02 AM »
Have a look at Galveston County, TX 's plan. They opted out of SS and instead invested as a group. From what I've heard, it's giving them a spectacular return.

Myself, I think this is the year I'm going to invest in the Vice Fund. Last year it returned 23%.

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280plus

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 08:13:39 AM »
Well, I'll add that when my dad passed the .gov gave us $250 for funeral expenses and kept the rest of his money. That paid for 1/2 of one obituary. It was at that point I vowed to show as little income as possible each year and went into business for myself, where the whole world is a write off and it's all legit. They still get my money, but not nearly as much as if I worked as an employee.
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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2007, 08:20:35 AM »
My total contributions to SS and Medicare, including employers matching, is $216,000.00. If I were able to invest and get the returns I have gotten on my 401K, this amount would be worth close to $2M today. My monthly SS benefit, in 15 years when I could first collect, would not even make my house payment even if income taxes were not taken out. Does anyone except me think this is a lousy system?

 I'm saddened that you are only now realizing this. After all, it has the word "social" right in the title.

Art Eatman

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2007, 08:34:26 AM »
I filed at age 62, ten years back.  I don't remember the exact numbers, but my first 80% checks were around $430/mo or so.  I had all my SS contributions money back in something like 13 months.  The COLA now has me up around the $650/mo level.

Thanks, guys...

Smiley, Art
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Sindawe

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2007, 08:35:38 AM »
*#&@^!$%  angry angry angry

Yea, I review my SS statements every year.  Never fails to make me angry enough to end up on the roof, naked, with a loaded deer rifle.

Quote
And now there are rumors that the Bushmen want to extend SS benefits to foreigners, including illegal aliens!

Here's a bit about THAT bit of odious dren from todays World Net Daily (yea, I know how folks feel about that source)

Quote
INVASION USA
Social Security billions could go to Mexicans
Critics say benefits would lure illegals to U.S. while giving employers marginal help
Posted: January 2, 2007
11:44 p.m. Eastern


© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


An organization of retirees has announced the release, after three years of arguments and a Freedom of Information request, by the Social Security Administration of a copy of the first known public copy of the U.S.-Mexico Social Security Totalization Agreement.

The TREA Senior Citizens League said the document reveals what was expected, a huge threat to the future of Social Security, because any Mexican worker who has as little as 18 months of employment history in the United States could end up qualifying for some Social Security retirement benefits.

The organization of retirees, whose leaders have tried to convince Congress to prevent Social Security benefits from being awarded for work done by people in the United States illegally, said the exact financial impact cannot be calculated immediately, because the number of illegals working in the country isn't clear.

But with estimates ranging to 20 million illegals in the country, even a portion of them qualifying for Social Security benefits could move the costs into the range of billions quickly.

An analysis of the plan by the Center for Immigration Studies noted that at the end of 2003, the Social Security System owed retirees and current workers benefits valued at $14 trillion, with assets of only $3.5 trillion.

"Ominously, these assets include not only the trust fund's current reserves ($1.4 trillion), but also the present value of the taxes that current workers will pay for the rest of their working lives ($2.1 trillion)," the organization said.

The TREA organization, which represents more than 1.2 million people, said the government agreement between the United States and Mexico was signed in June 2004, and now is awaiting President Bush's signature. Once that signature is in place, which can be done without a vote in Congress, the U.S. House and U.S. Senate would have only 60 days to disapprove it by voting to reject it.

"The Social Security Administration itself warns that Social Security is within decades of bankruptcy – yet, they seem to have no problem making agreements that hasten its demise," said Ralph McCutchen, chairman of the league.

It's not the first such agreement; the U.S. already has nearly two dozen other agreements with other nations. They are intended to eliminate dual taxation for people who work outside their country of origin. But the other agreements are with developed nations with economies similar to that of the U.S., the league said.

For example, a worker who turns 62 after 1990 generally needs 40 calendar quarters of coverage to receive retirement benefits. Under the cross-country agreements, workers can combine earnings from both countries in order to qualify for benefits in the U.S.

The agreements generally provide that workers need only 18 months of coverage in the U.S. to qualify.

However, the league said Mexico's retirement system is "radically" different from other nations, the group said. "There, only 40 percent of the non-government workers participate in the system, as opposed to 96 percent of America's non-government workers. Additionally, the U.S. system is progressive, meaning lower-income workers get back much more than they paid into the system. But in Mexico, workers get back only what they put in, plus interest."

"I applaud the persistent efforts of TREA Senior Citizens League to try to get documents from the U.S. Government about the U.S.-Mexico Social Security totalization Agreement," noted Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C. "The American people are finally beginning to get some of the information regarding this Agreement that they have been seeking for so long."

The CIS said the plan should not be approved in this form.

"It represents a sell-out of American workers and their families," the group's analysis said. "Such a one-sided pact with its enormous financial risks should never have been negotiated in the first place."

"It is unfortunate that the Commissioner of Social Security signed it despite the serious and specific concerns expressed in the GAO report and again in Congressional hearings in 2003. It would have been far better to pull the plug then rather than extend negotiations with Mexico, which now has every reason to believe the agreement will be accepted. We owe Mexico an apology for leading it on. But embarrassment over a diplomatic blunder should not get in the way of extricating ourselves from an agreement that is not in our national interest," the analysis said.

The CIS said the circumstances could attract illegals to the U.S., while providing only marginal benefits to any U.S. workers or employers.

The retirees' organization is made up of active senior citizens who are concerned about protecting their Social Security, Medicare and veteran or military retiree benefits.

It is working on changing the way Cost-of-Living Adjustments are made, obtaining reforms in the system for those people born in the "Notch" years of 1917-1926, and resolving threats to civilian or military work force retiree benefits.

The cost of Social Security is just one of the concerns being raised by those who oppose the "Premeditated Merger" of North America, a subject fully explored and explained in the newest issue of WND's Whistleblower Magazine.

It also raises the issues of plans to scrap the dollar in favor of an "amero," eliminate U.S. sovereignty and create a "brave new world."

The issue documents 1,000 pages of government forms on assembling a "shadow government," shows how NAFTA superhighways would facilitate the economic changes demanded by the revolutionary concepts and highlights revealing excerpts from the Council on Foreign Relations' radical 59-page blueprint for "North American community."


If you'd like to sound off on this issue, please take part in the WorldNetDaily poll.

Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53613

Would that there was a way to opt-out of the Ponzi scheme. Just keep the money you've stolen already and let me OUT!  Of course, there is not.  And IIRC the tax laws have been changed so that now, if you wish to declare minors on your tax return THEY have to have a Socialist Slave number.  I don't have kids, but I've thought about getting numbers for my cats and taken the deductions for them.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Art Eatman

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 08:53:51 AM »
Tie this to the Fiat Currency thread:

"78 million is the number of baby boomers who are in or approaching retirement. Thats the biggest demographic bulge in U.S. history, fully 26% of the population.

And many of those 78 million are in a jam. As they approach retirement, they are still carrying historic levels of debt and, on average, have woefully inadequate net worthand much of that based on shaky housing prices.

In fact, 25% of the retiring boomersnearly 20,000,000 in allare facing retirement with a net worth of less than $50,000. You dont need to be an accountant to see that, with todays degraded currency and longer life expectancies, they wont get very far on so little."

AND:

"U.S. government debt now tops $9 trillion, before taking into account its unfunded obligations for Social Security and Medicaredebts that the retiring boomers will soon have their hands out to collect.

After adding in Social Security, Medicare and all the governments other pay-later obligations, the current debt actually comes in at over $60 trillion..."

This comes from the Doug Casey email newsletter, "What We Now Know".  This bunch doesn't take political positions on anything; they just look at ways to make money.  So, all them cold-blooded but they put their money where they think their facts are.

Art

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InfidelSerf

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2007, 10:19:04 AM »
And of course thanks to the Smith Act of 1940

By merely asking the question and suggesting a revolt may be the only means of correcting the tyranny, our forefathers predicted would happen if we didn't watch our P's and Q's, I become a felon of the law.  Thanks

So what next? 

It seems nearly every generation from here on will all be born with their heads in the sand.

At what point do we say .. "Hey!, Enough is enough!"  End the excessive taxation and atrocious attacks on our liberty.
All I need to do is read the Declaration of Independence and I feel like I'm reading my own thoughts and feelings.

No I fear the New World Order is our future.  And those that value true liberty will be relegated to the fringes of society, forced to choose true freedom and liberty, over prosperity. JMHO
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drewtam

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2007, 05:25:57 PM »
Cry and wail about how little your getting, you retirees.

But realize this, YOU HAVE SCREWED THE NEXT GENERATION! When I retire, there won't be a dime of the money I'm currently paying you left for me. This is the legacy your generation has left us.

So cry to me all day about how your only getting $650/mo.
But I can tell you how much I'll get in about 40yrs ~$0.000/mo
And when any politician even thinks about reform, it political suicide, because the old folks freak out.

(obviously this isn't directed as much to the members of this board, but the retiring generation in general)

After all, it has the word "social" right in the title.
laugh


Drew
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SomeKid

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2007, 06:00:37 PM »
Drew,

You hit on the very reason I refuse to call old people the greatest generation. They aren't.

Monkeyleg

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 06:11:38 PM »
"This is the legacy your generation has left us."

Hey, I didn't ask for this. My most recent statement shows that I've paid in somewhere around $130,000+ since I really started earning money after college in the late 1970's.

If the government were to offer that $130K to me today and call it a deal, I'd grab it. That's not going to happen, though, because SS funds are used as part of general revenues, and have been since the 1960's.

There's really only a few options available for Social Security: 1) leave the system as it is; 2) increase the age at which people can collect; 3) decrease the "benefit;" 4) increase taxes on those working; or 5) privatize the system for those still in the work force while maintaining existing benefits for those nearing the age when they will collect.

Option #1 means that the young workers today won't see a dime from what they've paid in. Option #2 will be fought tooth and nail by those of us who've already been fleeced by the system. Option #3 will definitely be fought by us "old codgers," even if it means picking up a rifle. Option #4 is totally unacceptable, but I'm betting it's the way the politicians will go. Option #5 was pressed by GW, but nobody wanted to touch it.



brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2007, 08:10:25 PM »
Quote
There's really only a few options available for Social Security: 1) leave the system as it is; 2) increase the age at which people can collect; 3) decrease the "benefit;" 4) increase taxes on those working; or 5) privatize the system for those still in the work force while maintaining existing benefits for those nearing the age when they will collect.

Whatever the Baby Boomers want, the baby boomers will get. There are significant enough numbers of the 'me' generation going into retirement in the next decade to vote themselves anything they want.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Sindawe

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2007, 10:10:41 PM »
Quote
Whatever the Baby Boomers want, the baby boomers will get. There are significant enough numbers of the 'me' generation going into retirement in the next decade to vote themselves anything they want.
Unless of course, "something" is done about them.  Aren't they due for for Carrousel or some such nonsense?

RENEW!!  RENEW!!  RENEW!!

Option 5 above would be my choice, though IIRC the Bush proposal still put the funds extracted at gunpoint under government control, not that of the account holder.   I expect that the boomers will get their way and we'll see higher taxes for all.

Provided the current form of government lasts that long.


I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Standing Wolf

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 10:18:47 PM »
I don't understand why free money never is.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Leatherneck

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2007, 02:42:23 AM »
So. All you young 'uns see nothing wrong with saying to us old farts: "Thanks for the quarter-million bucks you donated over your working life; now get lost"? Seems like I have every right to get back at least some of the money I've "donated" over my career.

TC
TC
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280plus

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2007, 03:31:48 AM »
Not me. You put it in there, I'd like to see you or your family collect every bit of it back, plus interest. The fact that that will not happen is where I see fault. I can see the reasons to force people to save for their retirement / old age because most of them won't and then we'd end up with millions of destitute elderly people in a short period of time. But I say individualize it. So that your money is your money and if you die it can be at LEAST rolled over into your surviving family members accounts and not just given gratis to the govt.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2007, 05:11:27 AM »
It's long been known that SS is a Ponzi scheme.  Unfortunately, this knowledge isn't widely spread among the populace.  Since so few really understand the deal, all efforts to "get real" draw screams of rage from the scared voters.  Since it's a Social Program, the Democrats are inherently supporters, regardless of the fiscal idiocy.

I'm sure not bitching about my $650.  It covers my property taxes, insurance, utilities, food and booze.  Since I have no debt, I have no complaints.

Art
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brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2007, 05:30:01 AM »
Quote
Since so few really understand the deal, all efforts to "get real" draw screams of rage from the scared voters.  Since it's a Social Program, the Democrats are inherently supporters, regardless of the fiscal idiocy.
Exactly. The democRATS use social security in every election to depict their opponents as the bogeyman who would want the elderly out in the streets eating dogfood and people believe it. We even had an Al Gore supported  a few elections ago drive her 1/4 million$ winnebago 1/2 way across the country to be an example of an elderly person who has to eat dog food to pay for her prescription drugs- and people believe3d it
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mountainclmbr

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2007, 06:19:07 AM »
I have discussed this with some of the "smarter than thou" liberal folks I work with in California. They almost unanimously agree that SS is good because it invests in US Government Bonds which are safe and good, instead of the stock market which is risky and bad. When I inform them that the money "invested" in Government bonds is spent by said Govt with the promise of taxing future income to pay for it, at gunpoint, they just give me glassy-eyed stares. Also lost on the "smarter" set is that the SS scheme relies on  always having more new people going into the workforce than retiring. This implies a constant and exponential population increase to keep the system afloat. None of these folks could explain how they square the need for population growth/urban sprawl with their environmental beliefs. With the negative population growth in Europe, I expect to see their welfare state collapsing soon. I also expect them to blame it on the USA. The only fix I see for SS is for a flexable retirement age with retirement elegibility given by the equation: Retirement Age = Day you Die.
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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2007, 06:58:25 AM »
Quote
There's really only a few options available for Social Security: 1) leave the system as it is; 2) increase the age at which people can collect; 3) decrease the "benefit;" 4) increase taxes on those working; or 5) privatize the system for those still in the work force while maintaining existing benefits for those nearing the age when they will collect.

Whatever the Baby Boomers want, the baby boomers will get. There are significant enough numbers of the 'me' generation going into retirement in the next decade to vote themselves anything they want.

 ...proving that "democracy" sucks A$$.  angry

InfidelSerf

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2007, 07:22:42 AM »
I always find that arguement that somehow the stock market is a bad investment because it's "risky"

Interesting that nearly ALL retirement accounts (401K, mutual funds etc)
Are all based in the stock market. 

So since nearly all retirees rely on various investment accounts that invest in the stock market.
Then how is it that it's somehow more risky for the government to invest the money they took from you by force, in the stock market.
Then if you were to invest as an individual?

But don't worry, pretty soon our cash will be obsolete if not outlawed.  Giving the government even more control over our lives.
And the excuse will be "it's for the children" or "in the interest of security"  Since we all know criminals are the only ones that use cash now.

For all those that read "Atlas Shrugged"  I think a "stirke" of the minds is a good idea.

The hour is fast approaching,on which the Honor&Success of this army,and the safety of our bleeding Country depend.Remember~Soldiers,that you are Freemen,fighting for the blessings of Liberty-that slavery will be your portion,and that of your posterity,if you do not acquit yourselves like men.GW8/76

Eleven Mike

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2007, 07:42:39 AM »
I'm saddened that you are only now realizing this. After all, it has the word "social" right in the title.

I missed the part where he said he had always been a big fan of the system.  Jumping to conclusions, aren't you?  Or do you just assume that everyone on the board is an abject leftist or an idiot?  Either way, quit. 

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2007, 08:54:51 AM »
I'm saddened that you are only now realizing this. After all, it has the word "social" right in the title.

I missed the part where he said he had always been a big fan of the system.  Jumping to conclusions, aren't you?  Or do you just assume that everyone on the board is an abject leftist or an idiot?  Either way, quit. 

 Say "please".  smiley

 If mountainclmbr has not only recently realized that SS is a lousy system, then I am sorry for jumping to conclusions.