Post by: Brad Johnson on January 19, 2007, 09:49:15 AM
A link for your viewing displeasure.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/apo.asp
Brad
Post by: Declaration Day on January 19, 2007, 09:55:29 AM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 19, 2007, 10:07:18 AM
They can officially change their name to "hippy-mat.com"
Post by: The Rabbi on January 19, 2007, 10:34:28 AM
Post by: Bogie on January 19, 2007, 10:44:38 AM
Repeat after me: e-mail them and phone them. A lot. Nope. More. MORE!
Post by: StopTheGrays on January 19, 2007, 11:34:09 AM
If Belling is getting involved the owner's of that company better leave the state.
Post by: Cromlech on January 19, 2007, 11:37:43 AM
Post by: jake7457 on January 19, 2007, 11:48:30 AM
http://digg.com/world_news/Soldier_asks_a_simple_question_Gets_a_rude_reply
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 19, 2007, 12:55:13 PM
Post by: CAnnoneer on January 19, 2007, 04:47:08 PM
Post by: Sindawe on January 19, 2007, 05:43:54 PM
Quote
I don't know the right word, either.
Perhaps chutzpah?
Post by: wmenorr67 on January 19, 2007, 05:57:11 PM
I am amazed that a company would flat out in this day and age say something like that about the military. Say what you like about the policy of the people in power that sent us over here. But to say something to the effect that we chose to be here is assinine. I know that some companies will not ship to APO or FPO due to the extra paperwork and hassle to make those shipments.
I know that with the attitude this company seems to have they just lost several hundred thousand prospective customers. Because being one myself, I know that troops get bored. When we get bored we surf the net and spend money with these online retailers. And the ones that take care of us while we are here will usually keep our business once we return stateside. I ought to send this company an email and offer them a $5 bill for their entire company. Because before long it won't even be worth that much. I see them having a going out of business sale before too long.
Post by: AJ Dual on January 19, 2007, 06:35:21 PM
And is a P.O. box at the Post Office just a few blocks from the business address.
It also links to other websites that middle-man drop-ship other stuff like scooters etc.
And the domain referral goes here: http://www.wildwestdomains.com/gdshop/default.asp
Looks like some work-from-home loser to me.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 19, 2007, 07:15:49 PM
They should have called on the phone. The person from the email may be some young intern punk that will be summarily slapped down by the management.
I thought so, too, but then why wouldn't they return Snopes' phone call and make clear that was the case?
Post by: AJ Dual on January 20, 2007, 04:30:56 AM
Looking at Google Earth, I believe it's a residential street. Combined with the middle eastern sounding name in the domain registry info, and the "Sell from home, No stock!" website that's the referring domain, thus my theroy this is an embittered Muslim or Arab who fell for an Internet "Work From Home" scam...
Post by: Thor on January 21, 2007, 04:42:33 PM
Post by: Ezekiel on January 21, 2007, 05:39:51 PM
Post by: Robert Sears on January 21, 2007, 06:10:41 PM
"Just tried their website to see what type of mat this is all about and got this: Quote:
Discount-Mats.com is Experiencing Technical Difficulties...
If you are inquiring about your order, please contact us via phone or email.
Thank you for your understanding & patience. ".
Seems the business maybe having overload problems. What a shame--NOT.
Bob
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 21, 2007, 06:19:56 PM
This is America, it's their right to respond however they desire.
Agreed. They have exercised their right to be complete heels.
Post by: Ezekiel on January 22, 2007, 03:05:58 AM
This is America, it's their right to respond however they desire.
Agreed. They have exercised their right to be complete heels.
Post by: cordex on January 22, 2007, 04:28:55 AM
I'll respond to your post in the other thread here for consolidation purposes.
The "appropriate" response is to just not order from them, right?
Or is harrassing them with a deluge of ad hoc paper okay?
The appropriate response can involve both not ordering from them as well as notifying them of why they will not receive your business, could it not?Or is harrassing them with a deluge of ad hoc paper okay?
If I were a business owner, I would want to know why people are not shopping at my store. In fact, businesses constantly go to great lengths to determine exactly that going so far as to contract for very expensive surveys and market research studies. The folks who email the proprietor to tell him why they aren't buying from him or why they are unhappy with him are providing a valuable service without charge. Win-win.
Post by: Bogie on January 22, 2007, 11:55:43 AM
Post by: Ezekiel on January 22, 2007, 12:27:00 PM
Your call.
And going forward with this, keep in mind that EVERY time you let a manager/owner of a "no guns allowed" retail establishment know about your displeasure, you're turning him one step closer to removing the prohibition.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 22, 2007, 12:34:32 PM
Post by: Thor on January 22, 2007, 06:02:48 PM
Quote
Web Site Kicks Sand in Faces of GIs in Iraq Asking for Mats to Ease Hardship of Sleeping on Ground
Monday, January 22, 2007
An American GI assigned to one of the harshest posts in Iraq had a simple request last week for a Wisconsin mattress company: send some floor mats to help ease the hardship of sleeping on the cold, bug-infested ground.
What he got, instead, was a swift kick from the company's Web site, which not only refused the request but added insult to injury with the admonition, "If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."
Army Sgt. Jason Hess, stationed in Taji, Iraq, with the 1st Cavalry Division, said he emailed his request to Discount-mats.com because he and his fellow soldiers sleep on the cold ground, which contains sand mites, sand flies and other disease carriers.
In his email, dated Jan. 16, 2007, he asked the Web-based company, registered to Faisal Khetani, an American Muslim of Pakistani descent:
"Do you ship to APO (military) addresses? I'm in the 1st Cavalry Division stationed in Iraq and we are trying to order some mats but we are looking for ships to APO first."
On the same day, Hess received this reply:
"SGT Hess,
We do not ship to APO addresses, and even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.
Bargain Suppliers
Discount-Mats.com"
Khetani on Monday told FOX News that the person responsible for the email reply had been fired. The Web site, meanwhile, has been temporarily taken down.
Hess emailed that he has since found two mat suppliers willing to ship to an APO address in Iraq.
FOX News' Douglas Kennedy contributed to this story.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245718,00.html
Monday, January 22, 2007
An American GI assigned to one of the harshest posts in Iraq had a simple request last week for a Wisconsin mattress company: send some floor mats to help ease the hardship of sleeping on the cold, bug-infested ground.
What he got, instead, was a swift kick from the company's Web site, which not only refused the request but added insult to injury with the admonition, "If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."
Army Sgt. Jason Hess, stationed in Taji, Iraq, with the 1st Cavalry Division, said he emailed his request to Discount-mats.com because he and his fellow soldiers sleep on the cold ground, which contains sand mites, sand flies and other disease carriers.
In his email, dated Jan. 16, 2007, he asked the Web-based company, registered to Faisal Khetani, an American Muslim of Pakistani descent:
"Do you ship to APO (military) addresses? I'm in the 1st Cavalry Division stationed in Iraq and we are trying to order some mats but we are looking for ships to APO first."
On the same day, Hess received this reply:
"SGT Hess,
We do not ship to APO addresses, and even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.
Bargain Suppliers
Discount-Mats.com"
Khetani on Monday told FOX News that the person responsible for the email reply had been fired. The Web site, meanwhile, has been temporarily taken down.
Hess emailed that he has since found two mat suppliers willing to ship to an APO address in Iraq.
FOX News' Douglas Kennedy contributed to this story.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,245718,00.html
Post by: Ezekiel on January 23, 2007, 04:34:07 AM
I prefer to keep my rights/licenses private, make judicious decisions about thier use/display, and -- generally -- not be the protagonist in situations where merely avoiding conflict is the better part of valor.
There is NO WAY to walk up to a business and report that, "I'm not coming in unless I can do so strapped," without looking like (and being) an alarmist heel. Just don't use their services.
Such is my choice.
You never fail to amuse. Wow.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 23, 2007, 05:15:43 AM
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on January 23, 2007, 05:21:06 AM
In the article, the rep from the mat company indicates that the employee that sent the email has been fired.
When I ran a search on the company in the BBB, it shows 1 employee....
WTF?
Post by: Thor on January 23, 2007, 09:54:35 AM
Quote
E-mail to soldier spurs outrage
Military supporters bombard West Allis company with messages; fears for safety arise
By ANNYSA JOHNSON
anjohnson@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Jan. 22, 2007
What began as a brief e-mail exchange between a U.S. soldier in Iraq and a Wisconsin-based online retailer has erupted into an international incident that has pitted military supporters against free speech advocates and threatens to shut down the local company.
We would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.
- Bargain Suppliers employee
If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans
now.
- Othman Atta,,
Islamic Society of Milwaukee
Bargain Suppliers of West Allis said its discount-mats.com Web site had to be taken down Monday to address the thousands of e-mails it's received since news of the exchange - in which an employee voiced opposition to the war in Iraq - began circulating on the Internet last week.
Vice president Sajid Nasir said the employee is being "held accountable." But he said the incendiary and threatening nature of some of the e-mails - and voicemails left at the West Allis home that co-owner Faisal Khetani shares with his parents - have shaken the family.
"It's really getting out of control," said Nasir, who described the messages as "angry and vulgar."
"Our main concern is for the safety of the family. That's more important than the business," he said.
Repeated attempts to reach the Khetanis were unsuccessful.
The controversy exploded last week when a soldier, identifying himself as Sgt. Jason Hess of the Army's 1st Cavalry Division, sent an e-mail to discount-mats.com asking if it ships to military addresses.
Someone on the other end answered no, but went on to add that "even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."
A handful of Hess' friends got wind of the exchange, and soon it was ricocheting around the Internet - first on the Web site snopes.com, then on conservative and military forums and blogs - and has since made its way to talk radio.
Military supporters were outraged, calling it disrespectful and urging one another to flood the company with e-mails and calls.
Several posted Khetani's name, telephone number and address, which is also the business address, though Nasir insists it's for mailing purposes only.
Many of the messages invoked anti-Middle Eastern or anti-Muslim sentiment. (Khetani is Muslim, Nasir said.) Others vowed to shut the company down, and a few suggested they might make a personal visit.
"I think it's disgraceful," said Sgt. Maj. Dennis Webster, executive director of the First Cavalry Association in Copperas Cove, Texas, who learned of the e-mail exchange from a reporter.
"He's certainly entitled to his opinion. That's what soldiers defend," Webster said. "But there's a matter of respect. A young soldier isn't making those decisions. He's following orders."
Eduardo Briones, a Milwaukee native and retired Army sergeant who lives in Colorado Springs, Colo., said: "All he needed to say was no."
"I personally think we screwed up in the war, but that's not the fault of the soldiers. That's the fault of the politicians," he said.
Anti-war and free speech advocates were equally offended, by the widespread criticism of the company and the individual who responded to the soldier.
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."
Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.
"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."
Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
A person identifying himself as Hess, who was reached via a military e-mail address, has agreed to an online interview but has yet to respond to a list of questions.
West Allis police said Monday that they were aware of the controversy.
"We're monitoring the situation, in case somebody decides to retaliate," Capt. Tom Kukowski said.
"But we're hoping people use good judgment."
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=555527
Military supporters bombard West Allis company with messages; fears for safety arise
By ANNYSA JOHNSON
anjohnson@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Jan. 22, 2007
What began as a brief e-mail exchange between a U.S. soldier in Iraq and a Wisconsin-based online retailer has erupted into an international incident that has pitted military supporters against free speech advocates and threatens to shut down the local company.
We would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq.
- Bargain Suppliers employee
If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans
now.
- Othman Atta,,
Islamic Society of Milwaukee
Bargain Suppliers of West Allis said its discount-mats.com Web site had to be taken down Monday to address the thousands of e-mails it's received since news of the exchange - in which an employee voiced opposition to the war in Iraq - began circulating on the Internet last week.
Vice president Sajid Nasir said the employee is being "held accountable." But he said the incendiary and threatening nature of some of the e-mails - and voicemails left at the West Allis home that co-owner Faisal Khetani shares with his parents - have shaken the family.
"It's really getting out of control," said Nasir, who described the messages as "angry and vulgar."
"Our main concern is for the safety of the family. That's more important than the business," he said.
Repeated attempts to reach the Khetanis were unsuccessful.
The controversy exploded last week when a soldier, identifying himself as Sgt. Jason Hess of the Army's 1st Cavalry Division, sent an e-mail to discount-mats.com asking if it ships to military addresses.
Someone on the other end answered no, but went on to add that "even if we did, we would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."
A handful of Hess' friends got wind of the exchange, and soon it was ricocheting around the Internet - first on the Web site snopes.com, then on conservative and military forums and blogs - and has since made its way to talk radio.
Military supporters were outraged, calling it disrespectful and urging one another to flood the company with e-mails and calls.
Several posted Khetani's name, telephone number and address, which is also the business address, though Nasir insists it's for mailing purposes only.
Many of the messages invoked anti-Middle Eastern or anti-Muslim sentiment. (Khetani is Muslim, Nasir said.) Others vowed to shut the company down, and a few suggested they might make a personal visit.
"I think it's disgraceful," said Sgt. Maj. Dennis Webster, executive director of the First Cavalry Association in Copperas Cove, Texas, who learned of the e-mail exchange from a reporter.
"He's certainly entitled to his opinion. That's what soldiers defend," Webster said. "But there's a matter of respect. A young soldier isn't making those decisions. He's following orders."
Eduardo Briones, a Milwaukee native and retired Army sergeant who lives in Colorado Springs, Colo., said: "All he needed to say was no."
"I personally think we screwed up in the war, but that's not the fault of the soldiers. That's the fault of the politicians," he said.
Anti-war and free speech advocates were equally offended, by the widespread criticism of the company and the individual who responded to the soldier.
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."
Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.
"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."
Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
A person identifying himself as Hess, who was reached via a military e-mail address, has agreed to an online interview but has yet to respond to a list of questions.
West Allis police said Monday that they were aware of the controversy.
"We're monitoring the situation, in case somebody decides to retaliate," Capt. Tom Kukowski said.
"But we're hoping people use good judgment."
Post by: mfree on January 23, 2007, 10:04:26 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 23, 2007, 10:29:25 AM
Quote
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."
Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.
"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."
Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
Othman Atta, president of the Islamic Society of Milwaukee, said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind.
"If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said. "In the United States, everyone one is free to speak their opinion."
Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment.
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
1. "This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow...
It's NOT a free-speech issue. It's an issue of disrespect to a soldier. There is no serious question of his right to be a dirtbag. Legal, yes. Forgivable, barely.
2. "It is totally irresponsible for radio stations and bloggers to attack a person for his personal political views."
How so?3. "Othman Atta...said he would fault the worker for his lack of tact but defended his right to speak his mind."
Lack of tact? How about the fact that he blamed an E-5 for invading Iraq? Why defend his right to speak his mind? Who's attacking it?
4. "If you look at the polls, his opinion is reflected by a majority of Americans now," Atta said.
No, it's not. A majority of Americans would not, if asked, refuse to sell mats or other items to our soldiers in Iraq, regardless what they thought of the war.
5. "Atta appeared concerned that the controversy might fuel anti-Muslim and anti-Middle Eastern sentiment."
So am I. And who's fault is that? Could it be the Muslim terrorists and snarky, anti-war Middle-Easterners in Wisconsin?
6. "Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
Are you nuts? Osama and Co. have given us all the excuses we need. Thank Allah you don't wake up to burning crosses on your yard on a nightly basis. We've been mighty nice to your kind. How about acknowledging that? How about blaming the terrorists that look like you for the fact that we're a little suspicious of you?
Post by: wingnutx on January 23, 2007, 10:42:29 AM
Quote
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
I blame Saturday Night Live
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 23, 2007, 10:50:15 AM
Quote
"Some people will look for any excuse to target people from the Middle East," he said.
Excuse? Who needs an excuse when you have 3000 reasons?
By the way, buddy, you live here now. Defending the culture that brought us 9/11 does not endear you to anyone (except, of course, other dimwits like yourself who think the rest of us should have to conform to your wishes just because you have a pickle up your butt).
BRad
Post by: Desertdog on January 23, 2007, 11:26:13 AM
Quote
"This is a matter of free speech," said Julie Enslow, an organizer with Peace Action Wisconsin in Milwaukee.
I agree, it is a matter of free speech. As long as some idiot does not do anythng to the company, or owners, except send emails, or call, and not shop there, it is their free speech.Maybe now some idiots that thought of giving that kind of response will think twice about it.
Post by: Thor on January 25, 2007, 05:48:20 AM
http://euphoricreality.com/2007/01/24/who-is-behind-the-muslim-websites/
There are a couple of other informative links on that page I linked to.
Post by: Fudgieghost on January 25, 2007, 08:09:13 AM
Obviously, the individual(s) who made the aggravating statement is free to do so---the FBI did not detain or arrest him. However he, and the company he worked for are NOT free from the consequences of that speech----i.e. angered people beseiging them with emails, etc. That's FREE SPEECH also!
Obviously death or other types of physical harm threats are stupid, and possibly criminal, and should/can be dealt with as such.
It's rather breathtaking that many people can't see the difference between the above---certainly the Dixie Chicks did not. My guess is that they are not the "sharpest knives in the drawer. . ."
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 25, 2007, 09:21:40 AM
Quote
It's rather breathtaking that many people can't see the difference between the above---certainly the Dixie Chicks did not. My guess is that they are not the "sharpest knives in the drawer. . ."
It's really not about intelligence. If anything, smarter people are more likely to use the "free speech" defense. It takes the focus off of what was said, and puts it on the "mean" tactics of the other side.