Who Would I call to Work on a Private Bridge?

[Ben]

This might be a stupid question, but I have no idea who I would call to both inspect and repair a private bridge. My situation:

I have two bridges on my place. The first is the main bridge going to my house, which runs over a creek/irrigation ditch (about 25' over the water). No idea who made it, but it has a culvert pipe running underneath it and seems to be supported on the canal banks by big chunks of concrete and steel. The second bridge runs over a creek that separates my main property from my upper pasture (about 20' over the water). This was put in by the previous owner as a shortcut to that pasture (the two pieces of land are actually separate recorded properties). It is basically the flatbed trailer from a big rig that he laid over the creek with around ten feet overlap on each side of the creek bank.

On the first bridge, there's nothing wrong that I can see, but it does look like erosion from higher, faster water during irrigation season (APR-SEP) is starting to appear. Nothing serious at all, but something I want inspected just as a precaution and to do any reinforcement before reinforcement is necessary.

The second bridge, which mostly just handles cows and my UTVs (the former owner said he had taken up to D-5s across it, but I don't plan on that) Does have a couple of areas where the wood has cracked, and a couple of holes where the cows punched through, but from what it looks like, I can easily fix that myself. The main issue here is stream erosion on one side of the bridge. I probably have five or more years before i need to be concerned, but again, want to get an expert opinion on what would need to be done for stream bank reinforcement.

So long story longer, I'm both looking for someone (I would guess with appropriate engineering credentials) to do an overall inspection, then also what term I would use to search for appropriate contractors to do any work necessary. So far for the inspection, all I could find for "bridge inspection" was the big companies that do stuff like freeway bridges. Pretty much the same for "bridge repair" - just the ginormous companies that build the big bridges. Maybe that's all there is, but I was thinking, especially in farm country where there are a lot of these little, private bridges, there would be some smaller, local outfits.

Any suggestions most appreciated.

Edit: Bad grammar. When I say "25' over the water", I mean span over the water, not 25' vertically.

[charby]

See if your county engineer will moonlight or ask if they know someone. Also check with the university extension.

[Brad Johnson]

Is their any riprap on either side. It's about the easiest way to combat erosion. Relatively cheap, too, if you have a source decently close by.

Brad

[K Frame]

County engineer or county/township/municipality road/highway department, whichever your locality has.

This information is for California, but with the way your state is being invaded I'm sure it will be applicable soon.

https://cfins.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/RE-ALT01-2017-Private-Bridge-Crossings.pdf


My Father was a civil engineer and had contracts with a number of counties to do bridge inspections. I would occasionally go with him, or I'd go out and take photographs. Those were county-owned bridges, and holy crap some of them were frightening as all hell.

[K Frame]

Is their any riprap on either side. It's about the easiest way to combat erosion. Relatively cheap, too, if you have a source decently close by.

Brad

You've got to be VERY careful in putting anything at all in a waterway. The Feds can make your life a living hell in a heartbeat.

[Ben]

Thanks guys. I also have to call the Idaho Dept of Water Resources regarding something else today and am going to ask them as well. I'm not in an irrigation district, but the canal that runs under the main bridge is used by a couple of them on either side of me. One of them might even have responsibility for keeping the water flowing. After big wind events, I've a couple of times had big limbs and other stuff blocking that culvert pipe and have cleared them myself (not the safest thing I've ever done). If I can get them to do it to keep water flowing to their customers, that would be nice.

I don't exactly have rip rap (lots of pit run though) but have big chunks of concrete in various parts of the property from who knows what the last guy did. They could certainly go under that second bridge. I have a bunch of quikcrete bags laying around from a project where they ended up not being needed. I was thinking about maybe stacking them under that eroding area under the second bridge.

[Ben]

You've got to be VERY careful in putting anything at all in a waterway. The Feds can make your life a living hell in a heartbeat.

Posted while I was posting. Something else I'll be asking the IDWR about. Interestingly, about 50' upstream of the second bridge are at least six half-buried cars (maybe more are buried) which I guess were used in the old days to combat bank erosion. They all seem to be from the 40s-50s.

[K Frame]

As I said... putting ANYTHING, even natural stone, in a waterway without the proper permits can land you in a level of Federal bureaucratic and punitive hell that will make California's regulatory excesses look like a walk in the park.

When I was with the newspaper years ago Pennsylvania DNR and the Army Corps of Engineers came down like the legions of doom on a guy who altered a natural stream on his property.

He ended up paying a LOT of money to various entities.

[K Frame]

Ah, OK, I see we were criss cross posting.

CRISS CROSS!

Which is a great movie, by the way... Bert Lancaster and Yvonne "Lilly Munster" de Carlo.

[K Frame]

Posted while I was posting. Something else I'll be asking the IDWR about. Interestingly, about 50' upstream of the second bridge are at least six half-buried cars (maybe more are buried) which I guess were used in the old days to combat bank erosion. They all seem to be from the 40s-50s.

Yeah, things were a lot different prior to the 1960s/1970s. Things got a LOT more stringent when the revised Clean Water Act was passed in 1972 and with the roll out of the Environmental Protection Agency in 1970.

These days if you buried a car along a stream bed like that it would likely trigger a massive remediation event and result in your shelling out tens of thousands of dollars in fines and remediation costs and, depending on how much they wanted to come after you, could result in jail time, especially if there's petroleum contamination released into the waterway.

[Hawkmoon]

For the inspection, you need a civil engineer, not a bridge inspector. I work for a company that does "bridge inspection" for state highway departments. The firm is primarily a civil engineering firm (I think at the moment I'm the only architect on staff) and we design bridges, but the inspections of existing bridges are carried out according to the inspection criteria established by each state's highway department, and doesn't include erosion around the concrete abutments. An independent civil/structural engineer would be better qualified for that type of inspection.

[grampster]

I'd be wary of speaking to any goobermint drone.  You might suddenly find out you are in violation of a multitude of obscure rules and be heavily fined, have to remove the bridges, and not be allowed to replace them.

[PEfarmer]

While I share the reluctance to open the door to any .gov drones, it may be worth a call to your local NRCS office, since this appears to be ag related.  They are non-regulatory and take that distinction very seriously.  They have engineers on staff who may be able to help you as a form of conservation technical assistance.  Also, I loudly echo Mike's warning about putting anything into anything that could possibly be "waters of the US", that is unless you like the idea of losing sleep while considering 36,500 per DAY fines.

[Ben]

For the inspection, you need a civil engineer, not a bridge inspector. I work for a company that does "bridge inspection" for state highway departments. The firm is primarily a civil engineering firm (I think at the moment I'm the only architect on staff) and we design bridges, but the inspections of existing bridges are carried out according to the inspection criteria established by each state's highway department, and doesn't include erosion around the concrete abutments. An independent civil/structural engineer would be better qualified for that type of inspection.

It does sound like a civil engineer is my best bet to gather information. Again, forgive my ignorance, but are there, for wont of a better term, different "levels" of civil engineer? I guess I'm kinda thinking, as an analogy, the difference between a lawyer who would defend Trump, and a lawyer I need to consult for a tax question or something. A quick search again showed some local-ish civil engineering companies, but they looked like big guys versus someone who might help out a half-assed farmer. If I have to pay $1000/hr, I guess that's what I have to do, but if there is some level of independent civil engineer that would be more appropriate for my small problem, I'd like to go that route. :)

I will put off doing any redneck engineering until I hear from a professional. 

[Hawkmoon]

It does sound like a civil engineer is my best bet to gather information. Again, forgive my ignorance, but are there, for wont of a better term, different "levels" of civil engineer? I guess I'm kinda thinking, as an analogy, the difference between a lawyer who would defend Trump, and a lawyer I need to consult for a tax question or something.

Yes ... and no.

Some states issue a different license to "structural" engineers than they do to mechanical, electrical, and civil engineers. Most just lump the licensing all together under the heading of "Professional Engineer" (PE). Some years ago, when I was managing a mid-size A/E firm, we hired a structural engineer out of Texas who had an SE license from Illinois. The guy was signing letters and reports with "SE" after his name, even though the state we operated in didn't recognize that. I asked him to use "PE" instead. He got pissy and said that "SE" was a higher grade and he was going to use it.

Then our major client's contact person (a PE) called the owner of the firm and asked, "What the hell is this SE after [___]'s name?"

The "SE" stopped right quick.

Like attorneys, PEs are expected to practice within their area of specialty. A mechanical engineer shouldn't design the structure of a high-rise, and a structural engineer shouldn't design the mechanical or electrical system for the high-rise. "Civil" engineering can encompass structural engineering but, generally, civil engineers do roads, bridges, sewers and septic systems, land grading, and site drainage systems. Ideally, you should be looking for a civil engineer (or civil engineering firm) that does site development and road design.

[castle key]

As I said... putting ANYTHING, even natural stone, in a waterway without the proper permits can land you in a level of Federal bureaucratic and punitive hell that will make California's regulatory excesses look like a walk in the park.

I'm afraid to spit off my dock...

That could involve the County Wetland Board, Virginia Marine Resource Commission, US Fish and Wildlife, Army Corps of Engineers, Coast Guard, and maybe even a few others!

....and I'm actually pretty serious.....

[K Frame]

Please don't tell them I took a leak off the end of your dock over Christmas...

OH CRAP, I HEAR SIRENS!


Technically, throwing oyster shells back into the creek is a clean water violation....

[Jim147]

I guy east of here decided to build a pond for his horses one year. They take pictures from airplanes here and when it popped up in the picture he was in deep $hit

[RoadKingLarry]

Please don't tell them I took a leak off the end of your dock over Christmas...

OH CRAP, I HEAR SIRENS!


Technically, throwing oyster shells back into the creek is a clean water violation....

Generally,  that's acceptable, same as hanging your butt out over the water and dropping a deuce. However,  if you peed in a can or crapped in a bucket and then dumped it you are in violation of the law.

[K Frame]

The issue with oyster shells, as I understand it, is that they're supposed to be cleaned and sterilized before they're returned to the waters. Might not be a clean water act violation, but a fisheries issue.

[castle key]

The issue with oyster shells, as I understand it, is that they're supposed to be cleaned and sterilized before they're returned to the waters. Might not be a clean water act violation, but a fisheries issue.

And if the returns were growing in those same waters mere moments ago.....

This is why people are sick of over regulation.

[tokugawa]

I'd be wary of speaking to any goobermint drone.  You might suddenly find out you are in violation of a multitude of obscure rules and be heavily fined, have to remove the bridges, and not be allowed to replace them.

  This- ^^^   No good deed goes unpunished......
 

[Boomhauer]

I'm afraid to spit off my dock...

That could involve the County Wetland Board, Virginia Marine Resource Commission, US Fish and Wildlife, Army Corps of Engineers, Coast Guard, and maybe even a few others!

....and I'm actually pretty serious.....

We have lots of lakes here in SC. Some are state controlled, county controlled. Others ars Army Corps of Engineers controlled

The state and county lakes tend to have lots of lake houses. The COE lakes tend to have extremely few due to the onerous regulations. You can’t maintain the property so many feet from the waterline it has to be left natural. No sea walls or rip rap and maybe even no docks. In contrast when my family needed to put in a sea wall at our property on a county controlled lake not only were we permitted to do so but encouraged and they told us to go ahead and build it back to the original property line that had been eaten away by erosion. We gained 30 feet back in depth the whole shoreline.

[230RN]

Thanks to whomever brought up the notion to stay away from the government. Grampster?   Private property or no.
 
I got on this thread late. I would have mentioned that in the second post.  Forty years ago I would not have said this.

Remember this.  Paranoia is often the result of bitter experience.

[RoadKingLarry]

Have you contacted the local troll union?