Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamisjockey on March 22, 2010, 12:25:10 PM
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Just a hunch, but Immigration reform will be the next battle. The dems stand to gain millions of new voters by getting it passed. If that happens, tossing them out will be much harder.
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And with the help of Lindsey #$*(#&$(*#^%*(#^$&#@()%*#$_*#_^%)*#()_&$@*()&*(^#&*^$&*#@^$)(&%#)&%$)@(&$)(@&%*(#&%$&*^%&*#^$(*#&$)_*@ Graham, they'll get it passed.
Yes, I'm feeling rather pessimistic today.
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tossing them out will be much harder
Don't you mean "absolutely impossible" ? ;/
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When Obama promised that illegals wouldn't be served by ObamaCare, he didn't mean what the morons thought. The reason illegals won't be served is that there won't be any illegals, they'll all be raptured into LaLa Land to forever vote D.
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This was quite obvious when "immigration reform" started suddenly getting LOTS of coverage in the past couple of days.
The dems ain't resting on their butts, they are pressing on. And, as noted above, there are plenty of traitors like Lindsey Graham to help 'em.
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This is a war that, unfortunately, in the most enlightened nation ever is going to wind up being fought on racial and ethnic lines. No good American wants that, but it is inevitable. The Left lives for race-consciousness; they are obsessed with it. There are two Americas now: The Guilty and The Unguilty. And they are about to collide, bigtime. Those who live on and feed on guilt--the white liberal is the classic case; the media white liberal is the ultimate expression--are going to face off with the people who never owned slaves and never oppressed minorities and never wanted to. When Obama pushes ahead with amnesty, and he will, he will have told "White America" they are history. Behind the professorial demeanor lies a man for whom race isn't everything, it's the only thing. Health care reform is part of that, and nationalizing industries is nothing more than part of the Great Leveling that in the end is about eliminating what the sophists like to call "disparate impact." I would like to be optimistic about how this can all be resolved honorably and intelligently, but I admit it's hard to see a good outcome. America will be told they are racists if they reject an amnesty, and they will be told that by racists themselves. At some point whites will have a choice, embrace the term, with all that might imply, or surrender. Ugly choice. My wager is that the former happens, and an ultra-rightwing political party arises with a vengeance (same thing's happening in Europe now). This will be an unfortunate but inevitable part of the grim dialectic.
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This is a war that, unfortunately, in the most enlightened nation ever is going to wind up being fought on racial and ethnic lines.
I was listening to the House debate yesterday.
Amazing how all the libs constantly divided Americans into gender/racial groups to expose weaknesses and attempt to frame guilt into a resellable package. Health care discriminates against women, health care discriminates against hispanics, health care discriminates against blacks, health care discriminates against gays... bleh.
Gun sales will continue to spike. Ammo sales will continue to spike. Taxes will increase.
On top of that... in 2010 we'll vote in a bunch of Republicans who turn out to be TINO's (Teapartiers In Name Only) who run to repeal this legislation... and illegal immigration... and "reform government," but they won't do a damned thing.
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I was listening to the House debate yesterday.
Amazing how all the libs constantly divided Americans into gender/racial groups to expose weaknesses and attempt to frame guilt into a resellable package. Health care discriminates against women, health care discriminates against hispanics, health care discriminates against blacks, health care discriminates against gays... bleh.
Gun sales will continue to spike. Ammo sales will continue to spike. Taxes will increase.
On top of that... in 2010 we'll vote in a bunch of Republicans who turn out to be TINO's (Teapartiers In Name Only) who run to repeal this legislation... and illegal immigration... and "reform government," but they won't do a damned thing.
Oh great! Another acronym to remember. Excellent point though.
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If they pass an amnesty they'll have 20-30 million new D voters, at a minimum. Good luck tossing them out or repealing anything.
I really expect America to pull an Argentina in the next decade or so, as Obamacare comes to fruition and the laziest, most selfish and entitled generation ever all start to retire and demand their "rights" to medical care and a fully funded retirement.
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The bad / scary part about immigration reform is that I think A LOT of R's will hitch their wagon to that horse because they're afraid of losing the latino vote (or wanting to gain it). I think Obama will have a much easier time with it than he had with health care.
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The bad / scary part about immigration reform is that I think A LOT of R's will hitch their wagon to that horse because they're afraid of losing the latino vote (or wanting to gain it). I think Obama will have a much easier time with it than he had with health care.
I know McCain will vote for it, guaranteeing his defeat to Hayworth this November.
It will make a good litmus for country club and RINO conservatives.
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Holy smokes... I just heard what happened with the abortion provision in this bill.
They stripped it out, and Obama "promised" to issue an Executive Order once it is signed, prohibiting use of Fed Funds for abortion procedures.
Who the heck would believe he will issue such an order?
What a shuffling of blame... the congressman/woman can say "we left abortion in the President's realm of responsibility, and he broke his promise to us!", and the President can say "well, I just signed the bill that Congress sent me."
What a travesty of irresponsibility and lack of statesmanship.
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Anything that can be done by an EO can be undone by another one.
TC
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Anything that can be done by an EO can be undone by another one.
TC
Also an executive order can't override the explicit language of a law.
So it was just window dressing.
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Speeches on the floor of the House just before the vote said as much. "The EO doesn't do enough to protect against funding abortion, and even if it did it's just an EO and the courts will ignore the EO and uphold the contradicting pro-abortion language in the law."
Yeah, Supak simply caved. The EO was nothing more than political cover for him, for the folks to dumb to think things through.
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Speeches on the floor of the House just before the vote said as much. "The EO doesn't do enough to protect against funding abortion, and even if it did it's just an EO and the courts will ignore the EO and uphold the contradicting pro-abortion language in the law."
Yeah, Supak simply caved. The EO was nothing more than political cover for him, for the folks to dumb to think things through.
And it doesn't make sense. Pro-life voters are VERY motivated. We won't be fooled by this crap. (Ok, won't be fooled AGAIN by Stupak, but up until now it looked like he was a principled pro-lifer. Now it's clear he's not principled and not pro-life. Fool me once, shame on you.)
One thing has resulted from this crap. I don't have much spare cash, but every month till election I'm going to make a donation to an opponent of one of the members who voted for this crap. I'm starting with Dr. Dan Benishek (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=287806148754), Stupak's opponent.
I'm going to call up one of the Republican candidates running against Gerry Connolly (Keith Fimian (http://keithfimian.com/)) and see what I can do to help him.
We are starting a family and buying a house. We don't have a lot of spare time or spare cash. I'm going to use what I can to try to stave off the darkness for my to be born children. It might be a losing fight, but I'm going to fight. (I'm going to have a Plan B, though, since I'm not condeming my children to Weimerica.)
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And it doesn't make sense. Pro-life voters are VERY motivated. We won't be fooled by this crap. (Ok, won't be fooled AGAIN by Stupak, but up until now it looked like he was a principled pro-lifer. Now it's clear he's not principled and not pro-life. Fool me once, shame on you.)
Case in point. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/21/abortion-compromise-doesnt-satisfy-critics/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fus+%28Text+-+US%29)
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I'm going to use what I can to try to stave off the darkness for my to be born children. It might be a losing fight, but I'm going to fight. (I'm going to have a Plan B, though, since I'm not condeming my children to Weimerica.)
That's become my attitude lately. I don't know if I can turn this mess around, but I do know that I have to do everything in my power to try.
I often wonder how the New Deal generation could have let all of that crap come to fruition under their watch. I wonder it about the Great Society generation, too. Why didn't they stop that stuff?
When my grandchildren ask me why I didn't stop this Obama crap, I want to be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I did everything I possibly could, that I did not surrender the greatness of America without a fight. Even if we lose, I'll be able to explain what happened with honor.
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That's become my attitude lately. I don't know if I can turn this mess around, but I do know that I have to do everything in my power to try.
I often wonder how the New Deal generation could have let all of that crap come to fruition under their watch. I wonder it about the Great Society generation, too. Why didn't they stop that stuff?
When my grandchildren ask me why I didn't stop this Obama crap, I want to be able to look them in the eyes and tell them I did everything I possibly could, that I did not surrender the greatness of America without a fight. Even if we lose, I'll be able to explain what happened with honor.
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This. Exactly. Donating, volunteering, running for office, these are things I am doing. Anything I can to try and stop this. I fear it's all for naught, but I have to try.
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Most are thinking the Repubs won't be able to win a strong enough majority in November to overturn anything.
Do y'all really think that "amnesty" mean instant citizenship and voting rights for illegals? Is there a bill in Congress to do that?
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I often wonder how the New Deal generation could have let all of that crap come to fruition under their watch. I wonder it about the Great Society generation, too. Why didn't they stop that stuff?
Because they were desperate. They would agree to any experiment FDR wanted to try, as they'd do almost anything to end the Depression. My father went to his grave grateful to FDR for a job digging a ditch, a make-work job that did nothing for the economy, but gave FDR the ability to impose a "progressive" agenda.
Obama and his cohorts know this. The only way to get people to accept really radical change is to make them desperate. He's off to a good start with what he's been doing the last year.
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I'm going to call up one of the Republican candidates running against Gerry Connolly (Keith Fimian) and see what I can do to help him.
Mak, Keith is a solid conservative from what I hear locally. Your money or support will be in a good cause, IMO.
TC
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Because they were desperate. They would agree to any experiment FDR wanted to try, as they'd do almost anything to end the Depression. My father went to his grave grateful to FDR for a job digging a ditch, a make-work job that did nothing for the economy, but gave FDR the ability to impose a "progressive" agenda.
Obama and his cohorts know this. The only way to get people to accept really radical change is to make them desperate. He's off to a good start with what he's been doing the last year.
I had a grandfather who felt the same way about FDR for the same reason. My grandmother would almost brag at times that he was a hobo for a short time.
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Stupak didn't cave: He was just holding out for some bribes. See the other threads on the issue.
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Do y'all really think that "amnesty" mean instant citizenship and voting rights for illegals? Is there a bill in Congress to do that?
Not in that sense. In Oregon, illegals are given driver's licenses upon application. All they need is the Mexican consular matricular card for ID. And as part of the process of receiving the license, they get voter registration applications. It is part of the "motor voter" law passed many years ago.
An Oregon is a complete vote-by-mail state. There are no longer polling stations where you cast your vote. Voter fraud is the norm here.
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Just a hunch, but Immigration reform will be the next battle.
I doubt immigration will be much of a battle. It will more of a wimper and a whine. There are too many Republicans that want it.
If you are talking about a "political battle" where both sides participate in spirited debate, I expect it will some kind of stimulus part 7 or whatever number we are up to now. After the healthcare fight, the Dems need something they can run on this fall. If they put together some kind of outlandishly asinine bill offering McDonalds cashiers a $100,000 per year salary, they will be able to tar the Republicans with "You just want 20 something's to starve"!
If the healthcare thing taught us nothing else, know that we should only pay attention to every other news cycle. Two months ago the Dems were all over the news lamenting Scott Brown's election. In the background they were preparing for the final push on healthcare. If they are out talking immigration now, it is only because something much worse is in the works.
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Yes, a lot of Republicans want cheap labor. That we know, just as the Dems want cheap votes. But we come back to the same reality: the American middle-class is caught in the middle and being slowly but surely deprived of oxygen and wiggle room. I really doubt that in today's economy the average American is going to be very receptive to a blanket amnesty much less an escalation of legal immigration. Who needs more workers when your capitalist class is being systematically stifled? Why would we need to greatly amplify our pool of unskilled labor? So we can emulate the Chinese? There's a great legacy to leave our children. You can expect many American voices to make clear what an amnesty is likely to mean in terms of the economy, our debt, and the culture. This is a very visceral topic, and it will not be something that will just go down as governmental business as usual.
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and, if there legal there no longer cheap labor, and for some reason i am starting to wonder how much longer the minimum wage will be under ten bucks. ??? what will the union scale look like with a 11.25 minimum wage? [tinfoil]
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I doubt immigration will be much of a battle. It will more of a wimper and a whine. There are too many Republicans that want it.
This is true. Or at least it was.
I think this recent push and openness by the hard core progressive leaders of the Democratic party have been a major galvanizing force for their opposition. How many times before, or at least recently, have we seen such open and consistent partisanship and opposition? Even most of the senate RINO's voted against this POS. EVERY republican in the house voted against it. While I'm generally weary of poll numbers, the ones on recent issues have been so consistent that I'm willing to say they are at least generally correct. And they have been overwhelmingly against not just the health care bill, but the tactics used to pass it. The American people have been severely pissed off.
If the progressives in the democratic party were as smart as they think they are they would have pushed the supporting issues, such as an amnesty, first and more even handed. Then made the big in your face push and told the other side to STFU. As it is now though they've galvanized their opposition more then it has been in quite some time.
Hell it took them a year to pass health care and they just barely squeaked it through, and it may yet fall in the courts. And health care is an area most everyone agreed needed reforming, just not the type the dems rammed through and with the tactics they used. With a comfortable super majority they just barely squeaked through on an issue they many people agreed needed reform. On amnesty most people don't even agree with it in principle to start with, so it's already lacking one thing in it's favor the health care bill had. Now with galvanized opposition I think it's going to be just as if not harder to pass.
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Immigration policy is, according to Obama, one more "broken" element in American society. Of course he hasn't said why it's broken or who broke it. But others will, and vociferously, including new elements not yet seen in American politics.
I think the tea party movement is based not just on resistance to excessive government power but, more fundamentally, on truth, on gaining clarity, on re-articulating the real problems in America outside of the propaganda and sanctimonious bromides of the mainstream media. What amnesty means to the broad swath of Americas is not just more economic dislocation and displacement, it's the imposition of a foreign culture and values threatening core American political, social, moral beliefs. It means the "latinizing" of American society in ways radically incompatible, on every level, with where this nation began philosophically. While the MSM pundits refuse to talk about this, even many of the conservatives, the average American citizen-taxpayer understands it both intellectually and viscerally, and this deep truth will not only not go away it will break out into everyday speech and become a rallying cry. Just as the illegal alien community now feels comfortable waving foreign flags and talking about how this land is their land and how they will re-take America by outpopulating white America and how "gabachos" are history--all of this blatantly racist but systematically concealed and suppressed by fellow travelers in the media--Americans will eventually feel comfortable making their own cultural and political defense without apology and bluntly. This will, make no mistake about it, scare the bejesus out of a lot of people who "don't want trouble" and prefer to live inside the comfortable lies that got us here.
No, an amnesty will NOT go down easily. Rest assured of that.
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I know McCain will vote for it, guaranteeing his defeat to Hayworth this November.
It will make a good litmus for country club and RINO conservatives.
that's why I think they will wait till after nov
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It's true that Republicans want open borders/amnesty. That's why the Republicans are on their way, rapidly, to becoming irrelevant. "Republican" ideas have been eroding American strength for a long time, just as their collusion with Democrats has. The antidote to what's happening today is going to be nationalism, a sober realization that to survive we are going to have to rally around a new understanding of what it means to be American. This will annoy and anger a lot of people already in this country, but that, nonetheless, is where it's going. Democracy makes sense only when you have a "demos," and we have badly subverted ours.