Author Topic: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"  (Read 13658 times)

SteveS

  • The Voice of Reason
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,224
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #50 on: December 29, 2007, 05:18:58 AM »
  It is a violation of the 1st amendment.  Unless they give every religious holiday off.  Ramadan, Hanukkah, and Easter come to mind. 

A day off somehow rises to the level of an 'establishment' under the 1st amendment?  That is absolutely ridiculous.  I guess we should make them work on Saturday and Sunday, since not working on those days has religious origins. rolleyes

This religious group agrees with you:  http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive2007/12-24-07.asp
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.

Tecumseh

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2007, 05:48:17 AM »
What if government employees took Monday and Tuesday off instead?  I dont care.  Sunday and Saturday are the weekends here in the USA.  My point is that Christmas is a non-secular holiday unlike 4th of July, Thanksgiving, or MLK day. 

Saturday and Sunday are just days in a sense with religious origins.  Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday all have religious origins in their name as well.  The 7th day off is a Christian one.  They can make their day off the 7th day, which is fine.  I dont care. 

My point is that I should not be paid extra for working Christmas  because it is a government holiday.  Holiday = holy day.  Why not Ramadan?  Or Channukah?  Or Yom Kippur?  What about some of the Hindu festivals?  Why dont we get overtime pay for them if we work them?  Or better yet, get them off if we are government workers?

What is wrong with having employees use personal days?  Or private business working this out with their employees?  If they have employees work, they are forced to pay them more.  I thought conservatives were against government regulation and interference with private business?

Desertdog

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,360
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2007, 05:54:31 AM »
Quote
My point is that I should not be paid extra for working Christmas  because it is a government holiday.
I'll bet a lot of employers would be willing to not pay you extra for working on holidays, Christmas or any others, if you request to work those days for  straight pay.

BridgeWalker

  • Guest
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2007, 05:59:34 AM »
Tecumseh: Jews work on Chanukah.  Voluntarily.  When I went to Jewish school, there were classes on Chanukah.  We had one day off, pretty much just a long weekend, and that was mostly so we wouldn't be too jealous on the non-Jews who got all kinds of time off for their holidays.  

Chanukah is a minor holiday and is not subject to the restrictions of holidays/sabbath. Also, it is eight days long.  Ya really think no one should work for eight days to celebrate a holiday the celebration of which does not traditionally involve skipping working?

See, to answer Fistful's question from a couple days ago, this is why "happy holidays" is mildly irritating.  It creates in the general public the impression that they are somehow aware of/participating in Jewish/black/other culture merely by wishing someone a happy holiday.  When I was practicing Jew, it made sense to offer me holiday greetings on succos, pesach, the high holy days, and shavuous.  Not so much chanukah.  

Also, not everyone celebrates the New Year on Jan. 1.  I used to celebrate it on Rosh Hashanah (or the first of Nissan, depending on how one counts).  Now I celebrate it at the beginning of Advent.  And yet, I'm still fine with Dec. 31/Jan. 1 as a generally celebrated New Year's.

Also, Ramadan is twenty eight days long (I believe).  I'm pretty sure that Muslims, in Muslim theocracies, do not skip work for a month.  

And no, a day off does not qualify as an establishment of religion.



Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,454
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2007, 06:24:29 AM »
What if government employees took Monday and Tuesday off instead?  I dont care.  Sunday and Saturday are the weekends here in the USA. 
And Christmas is a cultural holiday here in the USA, which most non-religious people celebrate.  Ramadan and Yom Kippur are not. 


Quote
My point is that Christmas is a non-secular holiday unlike 4th of July, Thanksgiving, or MLK day.
 
While Thanksgiving is not as specifically Christian as Christmas, it is no more secular than Christmas.

Quote
Saturday and Sunday are just days in a sense with religious origins.  Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday all have religious origins in their name as well.  The 7th day off is a Christian one.  They can make their day off the 7th day, which is fine.  I dont care. 
The religious origin of the name has nothing do with it.  (And Christians worship on the first day, thank you.)


"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,454
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2007, 06:31:00 AM »
See, to answer Fistful's question from a couple days ago, this is why "happy holidays" is mildly irritating.  It creates in the general public the impression that they are somehow aware of/participating in Jewish/black/other culture merely by wishing someone a happy holiday

No.  No, it doesn't.   undecided



"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

BridgeWalker

  • Guest
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2007, 06:37:11 AM »
Quote from: fistful
No.  No, it doesn't.   undecided

I think you might just not qualify as "general public"  smiley

If I wasn't horrifically late, I could give you about a zillion examples of folks who have somehow mentally turned Chanukah into THE major Jewish holiday, and are really delighted at their "knowledge" of Jewish culture because they know what chanukah is, reading into it a parallel with Christmas not just in timing but in significance as well.  Everyone in this country knows what chanukah is. Most have no clue what succos/succot is.  But, since I am horrifically late, I'll stop here. Smiley

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,454
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2007, 08:13:35 AM »
No, I don't know what a succos is.

I really don't think that most people think of "Happy Hanukkah" as participation.  And when I used to get Christmas presents from Jewish clients, I didn't think they were trying to participate in a Christian holiday.  I certainly don't think they did. 


Do you also find it a little disappointing that Christmas is perceived as the major Christian holiday?  I would put Good Friday at the top, myself, then Easter. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2007, 12:09:25 PM »
BAH HUMBUG !

 laugh
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

SteveS

  • The Voice of Reason
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,224
Re: It' Called Christmas, with a capital "C"
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2007, 01:07:17 PM »
And Christmas is a cultural holiday here in the USA, which most non-religious people celebrate. 

Very true.  Just read this quote from Richard Dawkins, who is not exactly a friend of religion.

Quote
But of course [Christmas] has long since ceased to be a religious festival. I participate for family reasons, with a reluctance that owes more to aesthetics than atheistics. I detest Jingle Bells, White Christmas, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, and the obscene spending bonanza that nowadays seems to occupy not just December, but November and much of October, too.”

He added: “So divorced has Christmas become from religion that I find no necessity to bother with euphemisms such as happy holiday season. In the same way as many of my friends call themselves Jewish atheists, I acknowledge that I come from Christian cultural roots. I am a post-Christian atheist. So, understanding full well that the phrase retains zero religious significance, I unhesitatingly wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

From:  http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/weekinreview/17kennedy.html?ex=1324011600&en=5617d1d1e70c27d5&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
Profanity is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate mother****er.