Author Topic: The Democrats' new game plan  (Read 7193 times)

Hawkmoon

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The Democrats' new game plan
« on: January 24, 2017, 01:58:36 PM »
Diversity and inclusion ... unless you're white:

https://news.grabien.com/story-dnc-chair-candidates-bash-white-people-racially-charged-foru

These people ARE truly delusional.

Quote
“It makes me sad that we’re even having that conversation and that tells me that white leaders in our party have failed,” Brown said. “I’m a white woman, I don’t get it. … My job is to listen and be a voice and shut other white people down when they want to interrupt.”

In other words, my job is to listen to anyone who ISN'T white. That doesn't sound very egalitarian to me. In fact, it sounds rather bigoted.

Quote
“This is life and death” she emphasized. “I am a human being trying to do good work and I can’t do it without y’all. So please, please, please, get ahold of me. Sally at we-the-dnc.org. I need schooling so I can go school the other white people.”

Because, G-d forbid a white person should hold an opinion that differs from the DNC/BLM orthodoxy.

Quote
Another candidate said black Americans are now living with “justified fear” of being killed after Donald Trump was elected president.

I'd love to know exactly what "justifies" this fear, because unjustified fear is defined as paranoia, and that's a mental health condition.

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RevDisk

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 03:28:47 PM »
As the resident Dem, well. Good to see they're already working at losing 2020 election. I mean, ignoring the entire middle class of America and yelling at people for focusing on jobs, economy, etc worked out well the last time. So double down should work out twice as well.

With all due respect, the Republicans have grasped onto the title of the Stupid Party with all four appendages for some time now and prying defeat out of the jaws of victory. The Dems are finally getting serious about trying to dethrone the reigning champs, as we all saw in the 2016 elections. BUT, the wily Republicans know this and have their own strategy to keep firm possession of the Stupid Party title. Eliminating Obamacare well in advance of having their own plan, which might be a brilliant tactic to keep their title strong and ensure they lose seats in 2018. Gutsy move, but it just might pay off in the race to the bottom.
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wmenorr67

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 03:37:08 PM »
May be we are a lot closer to a third party type or some independents to make a lot of headway.
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RevDisk

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 03:49:59 PM »
May be we are a lot closer to a third party type or some independents to make a lot of headway.

If the Libertarians had taken their medication and run (somehow) someone moderately well known and reasonably sane... Hell, while we're fantasizing, if they could have somehow gotten Mattis to run, they would have probably taken every state except NY and CA.

Except the Greens ran a nutter and the Libertarians ran a moron. I voted for the moron.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2017, 04:06:27 PM »
May be we are a lot closer to a third party type or some independents to make a lot of headway.


It has been suggested that Trump actually IS the third party.
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AJ Dual

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 05:34:41 PM »
As the resident Dem, well. Good to see they're already working at losing 2020 election. I mean, ignoring the entire middle class of America and yelling at people for focusing on jobs, economy, etc worked out well the last time. So double down should work out twice as well.

With all due respect, the Republicans have grasped onto the title of the Stupid Party with all four appendages for some time now and prying defeat out of the jaws of victory. The Dems are finally getting serious about trying to dethrone the reigning champs, as we all saw in the 2016 elections. BUT, the wily Republicans know this and have their own strategy to keep firm possession of the Stupid Party title. Eliminating Obamacare well in advance of having their own plan, which might be a brilliant tactic to keep their title strong and ensure they lose seats in 2018. Gutsy move, but it just might pay off in the race to the bottom.

Considering that healthcare as a right is slavery to someone, somewhere, in the form of taxes, or forced labor for doctors or medical systems at less than market rates (Medicare) The answer is simply that Obamacare does not need to be replaced with anything.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/314172-after-repeal-what-should-washington-replace-obamacare-with

What Obamacare should be "replaced" with is probably more devolution of .gov regulations on healthcare. Removing interstate barriers to insurance licensing. Hell... maybe insurance licensing as a concept. If there is to be any proactive legislation at all, it ought to be the sort of thing where the consumers are to have their faces rubbed in schedules of fees and services, and maybe the medical equivalent of "no more payroll withholding for income tax" idea some have, where you have to pay it lump-sum, the week before elections.

Add to that consumer education on "new" drugs, tweaked just enough to be patentable, and arguably have only 1-2% more efficacy than some cheap old generic, or that the strip-mall MRI place will do it for $600, outsourced Cleveland Clinic radiology review included, when your local hospital wants $3000+, and figuring out a way to kick Title XXI types who want an ambulance ride to the ER because they like the little cube ice in the water there to the curb...

We'll have fixed 75% of the "health care crisis" as it stands now.

The whole "crisis" is simply that it's a market which has the consumers unhinged from the payers, and the providers.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 06:12:11 PM »

It has been suggested that Trump actually IS the third party.

I've heard Charles Krauthamer and Mark Levin say long ago that Trump was running a third party campaign inside the Republican party. Sure seems to be the case.

Perd Hapley

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2017, 06:28:25 PM »
I've heard Charles Krauthamer and Mark Levin say long ago that Trump was running a third party campaign inside the Republican party. Sure seems to be the case.


I heard it from Mark Levin, and it made a lot of sense to me.
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Ben

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2017, 06:54:25 PM »
Wow. I saw the woman in the OP on the TV this morning, but just caught the "good" parts of what she was saying. I had no context and assumed it was someone from one of the snowflake societies at a university discussing a new "We hate white guys" course or something. I had no idea it was DNC chair related. What cracks me up is that she's from Idaho. I didn't think they let whackos like that in. She's more suited to Berkeley.
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Scout26

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2017, 09:09:09 PM »
Considering that healthcare as a right is slavery to someone, somewhere, in the form of taxes, or forced labor for doctors or medical systems at less than market rates (Medicare) The answer is simply that Obamacare does not need to be replaced with anything.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/314172-after-repeal-what-should-washington-replace-obamacare-with

What Obamacare should be "replaced" with is probably more devolution of .gov regulations on healthcare. Removing interstate barriers to insurance licensing. Hell... maybe insurance licensing as a concept. If there is to be any proactive legislation at all, it ought to be the sort of thing where the consumers are to have their faces rubbed in schedules of fees and services, and maybe the medical equivalent of "no more payroll withholding for income tax" idea some have, where you have to pay it lump-sum, the week before elections.

Add to that consumer education on "new" drugs, tweaked just enough to be patentable, and arguably have only 1-2% more efficacy than some cheap old generic, or that the strip-mall MRI place will do it for $600, outsourced Cleveland Clinic radiology review included, when your local hospital wants $3000+, and figuring out a way to kick Title XXI types who want an ambulance ride to the ER because they like the little cube ice in the water there to the curb...

We'll have fixed 75% of the "health care crisis" as it stands now.

The whole "crisis" is simply that it's a market which has the consumers unhinged from the payers, and the providers.

And you can take as a deduction, your health insurance and health care expenses, up to $xxxx per person*, off your income tax.  If it's not tied to your employer, you can buy health insurance like you buy car insurance.   Agree to allow people with prior conditions to get covered in the first, say two years.  And once you are covered, as long as you maintain some type of coverage, you can't be denied.   After that, if you don't get at least catastrophic coverage when you turn 18 (or 22 if in college, no more of this until 26 bullshit), I think it would work.     









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Northwoods

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2017, 09:53:32 PM »
Getting rid of the ridiculous insurance reimbursement schemes would save providers so much money that they could chop prices considerably and still make similar overall profits.

Health insurance should be more like car insurance in the sense that you are only using it to protect against financially catastrophic expenses.  Car insurance doesn't cover normal expenses like oil changes, or wear items like brakes/tires.  It only covers major things like severe accident damage that most normal people can't cover out of pocket.  So, normal expenses like annual checkups, and routine health issues like strep throat or simple broken arms, non-disease issues like childbirth/contraception, and especially elective things like chiropractic/massage should be a cash only, doesn't count for coverage other than maybe against some (very large) annual deductible.  Save insurance for major things like cancer, heart attacks, Parkinson's, and so on that involve costs that would bankrupt almost anyone without that insurance.
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Ben

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 10:14:31 PM »
Getting rid of the ridiculous insurance reimbursement schemes would save providers so much money that they could chop prices considerably and still make similar overall profits.

Health insurance should be more like car insurance in the sense that you are only using it to protect against financially catastrophic expenses.  Car insurance doesn't cover normal expenses like oil changes, or wear items like brakes/tires.  It only covers major things like severe accident damage that most normal people can't cover out of pocket.  So, normal expenses like annual checkups, and routine health issues like strep throat or simple broken arms, non-disease issues like childbirth/contraception, and especially elective things like chiropractic/massage should be a cash only, doesn't count for coverage other than maybe against some (very large) annual deductible.  Save insurance for major things like cancer, heart attacks, Parkinson's, and so on that involve costs that would bankrupt almost anyone without that insurance.


I used to think like that, and still do for most stuff you mentioned, but have come around to the "one freebie physical a year" thing being worthwhile. Millcreek and Neemi and BobR and others can weigh in, but there is probably both a health and cost benefit to insurance providing a free annual physical, including bloodwork at free or minimal cost to catch issues that could turn bad (and expensive) if not caught and treated early. Insurance companies could still offer cheaper catastrophic insurance that also includes the once per year checkup, with the client still paying for other routine doctor visits out of pocket (all expenses to be tax deduction eligible).

Heck, even at my age, with my current good health I would opt for catastrophic that included an annual checkup. I already have about the minimum bronze plan (with HSA) that ACA allows, but that's costing me $480/mo for services I don't use. I'm basically paying nearly $6000/yr for my doctor to stick her finger up my butt once a year.
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cordex

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2017, 10:36:03 PM »
Ben,
I'm sure there are cheaper options available for that service.

As to the "one checkup a year", I have no problem with an insurance company determining that preventative care is a worthwhile benefit to offer either because it better serves their customers or because it reduces their costs. I have issues with government mandating basic services be covered to the point that much more expensive emergency procedures (the sort that justify insurance in the first place) have to be covered to a lesser degree to make up for it.

Ben

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2017, 11:06:56 PM »
I have issues with government mandating basic services be covered to the point that much more expensive emergency procedures (the sort that justify insurance in the first place) have to be covered to a lesser degree to make up for it.

I do too. I wasn't clear in the previous post that it would be a business decision if it is in fact cost effective versus a gov mandate. I would like to see something of an ala carte plan where I can choose a policy that includes an annual checkup, but where I'm not forced to also have coverage for in case I get pregnant.

I just think it is in fact cost effective for insurers to make the annual checkup a part of all plans, since it would likely save them money in the long run while also saving someone from finding out about a condition when it's too late.
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Northwoods

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2017, 12:54:39 AM »
If a health insurance company wants to make annual checkups required in order for your policy to be renewable I would have no objection.  I just don't want that to be required by regulation. 
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wmenorr67

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2017, 08:02:29 AM »
I can help in this by fixing prescription drug costs.  Quit allowing drug companies from advertising prescription drugs to the general public.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2017, 09:07:09 AM »
I can help in this by fixing prescription drug costs.  Quit allowing drug companies from advertising prescription drugs to the general public.


A gag order. That'll help.
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makattak

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2017, 09:08:41 AM »
I can help in this by fixing prescription drug costs.  Quit allowing drug companies from advertising prescription drugs to the general public.

I haven't checked the numbers, but I'm more than willing to bet that advertising costs are a tiny fraction compared to the development costs (read: government mandates) of a new drug.
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K Frame

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2017, 09:24:31 AM »

A gag order. That'll help.


Not a gag order in the least. The paradigm of advertising prescription drugs directly to the public is bullshit. At one time it wasn't permitted, and the drug companies got along just fine.

Friend of mine is a doctor and has had countless experiences of patients coming in and asking about the new drug for their condition and getting both pissed off and argumentative when she tells them that it's either not approved for their particular condition, it's likely to be a worse treatment for their condition than the old standby that they're on, it's not covered by their insurance so they'll have to pay HUGE costs out of pocket, or it's not going to work and play well with the other drugs that they're on (or a combination of all of the above).

In one case a patient demanded to be put on some new drug.

"I can't do that."

Why not?

"Because if you combine it with drug X, which you've been taking for over 20 years for X, your risk of suffering a massive stroke goes from not likely because your BP is well controlled to  the certainty of being dead with blood gushing out your eyes and ears."

It wasn't that bad, and she obviously didn't say that, but in the MD's opinion it was not a good choice for her patient.

We pay doctors to design the best treatment protocols for our particular health needs. Is that fool proof? No, but in my opinion it's one hell of a lot more foolproof than depending on an actor in a TV commercial for your treatment regime.
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K Frame

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2017, 09:26:00 AM »
I don't give a *expletive deleted*it what their new talking points are as long as they keep doubling down on failure.
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Kingcreek

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2017, 09:51:13 AM »
IIRC, the restrictions on advertising drugs to the end users (ie patients) were relaxed by the FDA in the late 1990's. First drug out of the gate with a huge advertising campaign was VIOXX. Very quickly became the #1 drug in America, made them a bunch of money, and caused or contributed to the deaths of several tens of thousands of people.
Some time back there was a great book about big pharma and how they do business by John Abrahmson MD called Overdosed America.
Drug costs and the cost of some diagnostic testing, as well as the overuse of some of that testing (defensive medicine) has contributed to the high costs of healthcare.
What we have here is failure to communicate.

DittoHead

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2017, 10:02:01 AM »
What Obamacare should be "replaced" with is probably more devolution of .gov regulations on healthcare.
I like where this is going...
Agree to allow people with prior conditions to get covered in the first, say two years.  And once you are covered, as long as you maintain some type of coverage, you can't be denied. 
Ok, so much for that free market idea  =|
Quit allowing drug companies from advertising prescription drugs to the general public.
And we've completely gone off the rails! Free speech is the problem  =(
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MechAg94

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2017, 10:12:14 AM »
Considering that healthcare as a right is slavery to someone, somewhere, in the form of taxes, or forced labor for doctors or medical systems at less than market rates (Medicare) The answer is simply that Obamacare does not need to be replaced with anything.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/314172-after-repeal-what-should-washington-replace-obamacare-with

What Obamacare should be "replaced" with is probably more devolution of .gov regulations on healthcare. Removing interstate barriers to insurance licensing. Hell... maybe insurance licensing as a concept. If there is to be any proactive legislation at all, it ought to be the sort of thing where the consumers are to have their faces rubbed in schedules of fees and services, and maybe the medical equivalent of "no more payroll withholding for income tax" idea some have, where you have to pay it lump-sum, the week before elections.

Add to that consumer education on "new" drugs, tweaked just enough to be patentable, and arguably have only 1-2% more efficacy than some cheap old generic, or that the strip-mall MRI place will do it for $600, outsourced Cleveland Clinic radiology review included, when your local hospital wants $3000+, and figuring out a way to kick Title XXI types who want an ambulance ride to the ER because they like the little cube ice in the water there to the curb...

We'll have fixed 75% of the "health care crisis" as it stands now.

The whole "crisis" is simply that it's a market which has the consumers unhinged from the payers, and the providers.
I think you are on the right track.  People don't pay for their own drugs and healthcare so there is no pressure at all keep costs under control.  No amount of government regulation can replace market pressure which is the most efficient cost control method we know of.
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Neemi

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2017, 10:32:28 AM »

I used to think like that, and still do for most stuff you mentioned, but have come around to the "one freebie physical a year" thing being worthwhile. Millcreek and Neemi and BobR and others can weigh in, but there is probably both a health and cost benefit to insurance providing a free annual physical, including bloodwork at free or minimal cost to catch issues that could turn bad (and expensive) if not caught and treated early. Insurance companies could still offer cheaper catastrophic insurance that also includes the once per year checkup, with the client still paying for other routine doctor visits out of pocket (all expenses to be tax deduction eligible).

Heck, even at my age, with my current good health I would opt for catastrophic that included an annual checkup. I already have about the minimum bronze plan (with HSA) that ACA allows, but that's costing me $480/mo for services I don't use. I'm basically paying nearly $6000/yr for my doctor to stick her finger up my butt once a year.

I don't know the exact numbers as far as the health costs/benefits... but I do know that it's been repeatedly shown that preventative care is several magnitudes cheaper than emergency care.

For example, I know that my middle child's last "well child" ("free" yearly visit) cost my insurance about $500 - but that included all of his school shots.

On the other hand, I remember a kiddo that came into the ER for a "rash" that ended up being measles. It ended up in a hospital admission, tons of expensive IV-based medications being administered, and then we had to clean any and everything that was exposed to that kid by basically dumping it in bleach for several hours. The ER room that kid used? Out of commission for 4 hours while it got bleach-cleaned. And that was on a busy night, so we really could have used that room to help treat other patients. And that kid would have to be in a private room - during a busy winter season when most hospital rooms were double bunked. Total cost of that? Not exactly sure, but it's a whole lot more than $500. That could've been prevented had 1. the parent had a clue that vaccinations weren't evil and 2. they'd gone to well-child checkups in the first place so that their doctor could educate them about issue #1.

So yeah, I'm a fan of the once-a-year physicals idea of the ACA. I think it's something that ought to be included somehow - I don't know how exactly. Maybe as a "you must be this tall" sort of requirement to be an insurance agency.

Another issue that needs to be addressed is the whole medicare/medicaid copay tier system. I've had several patients check into the Emergency Department because they couldn't afford their copay at the doctor's office - a whole $10. But the $0 copay at the ER they could afford. One of them was checking a newborn in for constipation - baby hadn't pooped in 2-3 days (not a big deal). After checking a rectal temperature, the baby pooped. And they insisted on seeing the doctor anyway "because we're already here anyway!" I know they the existing copay scheme is so that there are no barriers to emergency care, but there's already a law about that (EMTALA). The copay tier system is just the first line of things that need to be reworked.

I'd also like to keep the "no pre-existing conditions" clause of the ACA - I saw so many people who lived in pain and were just building towards an expensive breaking point because of prohibitive insurance costs. When in reality, their chronic diseases are easily managed with a couple of relatively inexpensive daily medications. Again, prevention is magnitudes cheaper than emergency care.

And while we're dreaming, I'd love it if vaccines weren't so optional. Spread 'em out? Sure. Skip 'em? Not unless you're *actually* allergic or severely immunocompromised.

Again, I don't have specific numbers on this - but a nurse can dream, right?

Kingcreek

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Re: The Democrats' new game plan
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2017, 12:19:16 PM »
The democrats plan is the same as before. Push left, harder left, and vigorously resist any movement away from left.
What we have here is failure to communicate.