Author Topic: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache  (Read 11305 times)

Ben

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67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« on: August 15, 2009, 12:21:36 AM »
Any of you WA staters know more about this? I don't know enough from this article to comment on the weapons and explosives charges, but can't help but be a little bothered by the judge's comments about how the guy put, "...lives at risk for decades". If he hadn't forgotten to pay the bill on the locker, no one would have known the cache existed.

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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2009663664_man_headed_to_prison_for_belle.html?syndication=rss


Former Kirkland man headed to prison for Cold War weapons cache

John de Leon

-- From Times staff reporter Ian Ith:

To everyone who knew him, Ronald Struve was not the kind of man who would one day be arrested by federal agents and, at age 67, be sent off to prison for four years on weapons charges.

He was the jovial bachelor uncle, the eccentric, introverted pack-rat who loved his pet birds and fed the wild critters who came to his back porch. For four decades, he went to work every day as a court stenographer, and even shared a rental house with a King County sheriff's deputy for awhile.

But during the decades of the Cold War, Struve also sincerely believed that it was only a matter of time before the Soviets or the Red Chinese came storming onto American soil to conquer our way of life. So quietly, Struve collected an arsenal and stuck it away in rented storage lockers in Bellevue and Spokane: grenade launchers, dozens of grenades and machine guns, plastic explosives, silencers, blasting caps and detonator cord.

The Cold War ended, of course, and Struve quit worrying so much. But he just couldn't bear to part with his collection.

Then one day he failed to pay the bill on the Bellevue locker. Someone bought the contents at auction. Struve's secret was out.

This morning in Seattle, U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman sentenced Struve to 48 months in prison, three years of probation and mental health counseling, saying, "The bottom line is people simply should not have these things and that's why we have laws against them."

"Your collections have put other people at risk for decades," she said.

Struve pleaded guilty in March to one count of possessing plastic explosives and four counts of possessing unregistered firearms. In return, the government dropped more than 100 other counts against him.

When agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms first searched the Bellevue locker in November, 2008, one veteran agent said, "In all my years, I've never seen this sort of firepower in one place."

They tallied two grenade launchers, fifty-four grenades, six big blocks of C4 plastic explosive, 37 machine guns from the Vietnam-War era, among other weapons. One of the grenades had been "dud-fired," meaning someone had pulled the pin and it could potentially still go off with a mere jiggle. Many of the items turned out to be stolen from the military long ago.

The agents also found more weapons in a locker Struve rented in Spokane. When they arrested Struve at his Spokane home, they said he told them he might use the weapons "some day," against "the enemy."



U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE

Some of the weapons seized from Ronald Struve's storage lockers.

Prosecutors asked for a 63-month sentence this morning. Assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas Woods said in court papers that Struve's arsenal "to say the least, was capable of inflicting deadly force on a devastating scale."

What if there had been an earthquake or a fire, Woods wondered. What if the person who bought the locker's contents at auction had been a little rougher when moving all the boxes home? What if a criminal had broken in and stolen the stuff?

"The scope of the arsenal in this case was simply breathtaking," Woods said. "Quite simply, this was one of the largest arsenals for one person in this region's history."

But Struve said he never meant to hurt anyone.

In a letter to the judge, Struve said he started collecting weapons on the black market in the 1960s, while the Vietnam War raged. "As a young man, I became an anticommunist and that influenced my thoughts and beliefs," he wrote. "I thought there was a strong possibility we (the U.S.) would be attacked by the Russians/Red Chinese."

But as the years went by, Struve said, he has been "modifying and tempering my beliefs and thoughts about world events and politics in general."

Even so, he was devoted to his collection, and figured it might be worth something, he wrote. He tried to keep the weapons safe, he said. And he emphasized that he never fired any of them.

"I am not a violent person and have never knowingly hurt another person," he wrote.

And his family and friends eagerly backed that up.

His nieces and nephews recalled "Uncle Ronnie," the guy who showed up for every family get-together, the guy whose habit of collecting everything from old magazines to war paraphernalia to pet birds was endearing, not worrying.

"He is a bit eccentric, but harmless," his niece, Tanya Fresquez of Las Vegas, wrote to the judge. "I beg of you to see that he is harmless."

And his former roommate, retired sheriff's captain James O'Brien, recounted that when the two shared a house in Kirkland many years ago, the raccoons and squirrels made a nightly pilgrimage to their backdoor for Struve's handouts.

"Ron has always been a quiet, friendly and caring person, close to his family in California," O'Brien wrote. "Ron is a good person who had made some bad choices."
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

stevelyn

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 12:36:42 AM »
This is the problem I have with mere possession being a crime. This stuff was in storage for years and never used. The old guy was only preparing for an emergency that never occurred. I hope the Waffen BATFEces and the fedpuke prosecutor are proud of themselves for heading off a catrastrophe in the making.  :mad:
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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 12:42:49 AM »
I occasionally wonder how many caches there are hidden all over Europe, lying in wait for a war that never came.
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

Nick1911

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 12:43:39 AM »
Quote
"Your collections have put other people at risk for decades," she said.

Other then by being poorly secured, I don't see how this is true.

It's such a grave risk that it hurt how many people in 40 years?  Oh, none?  Huh, must not have been all that dangerous in this mans hands after all.

Perd Hapley

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 12:50:42 AM »
Poorly secured is kind of a big problem, but since I don't know much about explosives, I wonder if they need any up-keep to keep them stable?  Or would they tend to degrade and become less dangerous? 
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freakazoid

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 12:57:40 AM »
Quote
and mental health counseling, saying, "The bottom line is people simply should not have these things and that's why we have laws against them."

 :O Anybody else bothered by this? Basically what they are saying on top of how people "simply should not have these things" but also that it is some sort of mental health issue! How many times has it been suggested that so called mentally unstable people should not be barred from owning firearms?
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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BridgeRunner

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 01:08:14 AM »
Poorly secured is kind of a big problem, but since I don't know much about explosives, I wonder if they need any up-keep to keep them stable?  Or would they tend to degrade and become less dangerous? 

I also don't know anything really about explosives, but I do know that degrading explosives, mostly from WWI, are a huge hazard.  Apparently they tend to become less stable over time.  Of course, that is nearly hundred year old technology.

Viking

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 01:09:27 AM »
I also don't know anything really about explosives, but I do know that degrading explosives, mostly from WWI, are a huge hazard.  Apparently they tend to become less stable over time.  Of course, that is nearly hundred year old technology.
Dynamite degrades with time, which makes it highly unstable. Dunno about the modern stuff though.
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Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 01:28:04 AM »
I occasionally wonder how many caches there are hidden all over Europe, lying in wait for a war that never came.
Some of 'em were government-sponsored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

I thought Death Wish III was silly, what with one guy having a pair of belt-fed MGs and a rocket launcher. I was wrong.

Don't all jump on the guy's bandwagon. It sounds like he may've stolen a good bit of his stuff.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 01:34:45 AM by Fistful Savalas »

Viking

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 01:32:01 AM »
I occasionally wonder how many caches there are hidden all over Europe, lying in wait for a war that never came.
Some of 'em were government-sponsored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

I thought Death Wish III was silly, what with one guy having a pair of belt-fed MGs and a rocket launcher. I was wrong.

Don't all jump on the guy's bandwagon. It sounds like he may've stolen a good bit of his stuff.
Yep, I know about that one. We had the Stay Behind-network going on up here as well, with people being sent off to the US and the UK for various forms of military training. One of the leaders for the network here got arrested for some weapons charges, but everything was mysteriously dropped after the security police had a talk to the boys in blue. Also, the Finns apparently dig up weapons caches every now and then as well. These were organized without official sanction from the government though. IIRC a group of officers had stolen enough weapons to outfit tens of thousands of men.
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

MicroBalrog

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 07:12:23 AM »
But, but... DECISIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!! This person broke the law! He should be punished!


Of course, that is nonsense. This sort of thing is downright evil, and exactly why more people should be working to repeal these laws.
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Viking

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 07:43:52 AM »
Honestly, how many of you would report something like this? I know that I probably wouldn't...
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Fly320s

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 08:11:22 AM »
Hell no I wouldnt report it.

I'd find a quiet place to use it. 
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LadySmith

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 08:54:07 AM »
Honestly, how many of you would report something like this? I know that I probably wouldn't...

I think my happy-happy joy-joy dance would be a dead giveaway. =)
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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 09:21:16 AM »
Quote
Anybody else bothered by this? Basically what they are saying on top of how people "simply should not have these things" but also that it is some sort of mental health issue! How many times has it been suggested that so called mentally unstable people should not be barred from owning firearms?

Yep. Modern pseudo-scientific demonizing and witch hunting are much superior to the old-fashioned kind.
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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 11:44:48 AM »
What strikes me about this story.

I need to start buying auctioned off storage lockers.

Where did this guy find this stuff? If I went a little off and decided I needed a few MG's and a bunch of C4 to repel the red/yellow/brown menace, I wouldn't have the first idea how to go about finding something like that.

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Ben

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 11:47:54 AM »
Quote
Where did this guy find this stuff?

Yeah, that was kind of interesting, the politics of the story aside. Seems he's a mild mannered court reporter of all things, but somehow made connections that led him to C4, etc. I wouldn't know where to start.
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freakazoid

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2009, 11:56:47 AM »
Quote
Yeah, that was kind of interesting, the politics of the story aside. Seems he's a mild mannered court reporter of all things, but somehow made connections that led him to C4, etc. I wouldn't know where to start.

The only thing I can think of is that he knew somebody in the military.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2009, 12:06:36 PM »
First of all, I wouldn't have stored those items in a rented place.   =|  Too much probability that someone, such as the landlord, would have cause to enter for some reason (such as building maintenance) especially over a span of so many years.

Second, If I were that close to the end of my life, I wouldn't plead guilty to anything.  I'd fight those #@$%&*#@ tooth and nail until I didn't have a penny left.

freakazoid

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2009, 12:25:26 PM »
So he misses one payment and they instantly sell the contents? Remind me to never rent a storage locker, and to go to more storage locker auctions  =D. I wonder how much the guy bought it for at the auction. And how do they know what to ask for as a price?

Quote
Second, If I were that close to the end of my life, I wouldn't plead guilty to anything.  I'd fight those #@$%&*#@ tooth and nail until I didn't have a penny left.

I wouldn't really say that 67 is that close to the end of his life, but I would still fight it like mad. Shoot, with the judge basically calling him mentally unstable because of it maybe he could of pleaded insanity,  :lol: Although he did get off with a REALLY light sentence. Only 4 years of prison! I would imagine that normally with a cache of that magnitude that he would have multiple life sentences or something. I'm surprised that they didn't use a tank to come bust down his home when they arrested him.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

Declaration Day

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2009, 12:28:59 PM »
I wouldn't really say that 67 is that close to the end of his life,

True, he could have 20-30 years left.  I guess what I meant to say is that, when I am 67, I imagine I'll feel like I don't have much to lose, having already had my career, raised my kids, etc.

Viking

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2009, 12:30:59 PM »
Yeah, that was kind of interesting, the politics of the story aside. Seems he's a mild mannered court reporter of all things, but somehow made connections that led him to C4, etc. I wouldn't know where to start.
I don't know how much gear that's gotten legs and walked off from your armed forces, but it was, and still is more or less an epidemic over here. Nowadays they don't store assault rifles and heavy machineguns in poorly constructed storage buildings out in the woods, so those kinds of thefts have ceased completely, but there's probably vast amounts of ammunition and explosives that grow legs each year and just disappears. I've heard of people who walked off with crateloads of ammo for example. Or people who travel home during the weekends with 30 feet of detcord wrapped around their torsos inside the jacket. Hell, over here it's a sport! Seeing that we hardly pay our conscripts, the attitude from the conscripts seems to be "We'll quit stealing when they start paying us atleast minimum wage!". The brass OTOH has the attitude of "We'll start paying you better when you quit stealing everything that isn't nailed down!"

Last I heard, there was about 540 assault rifles that had gone missing over the years (though "only" 201 of them are still out there), an unknown number of  m/45 smg's, an unknown (and hopefully not a large) number of medium and heavy machine guns. Add to this the odd AT4, handgrenades, mines, explosives, flashbangs,  teargas grenades and such. Not to mention all the non-dangerous but still expensive stuff like night vision gear...

Then there's all the stuff that's smuggled in as well...

So it seems to me that getting an illegal assault rifle or smg isn't too hard over here. As for you, just think of all the stuff brought back from Vietnam, Korea, WW2 that never got entered into the system, plus all the stuff coming in from South of the border. Or perhaps that gets smuggled in from China...wasn't there a sting maybe 10-15 years ago when the ATF busted some chinese businessmen trying to unload a few thousand AK-47's courtesy of Norinco?
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zahc

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2009, 12:37:50 PM »
Quote
"The bottom line is people simply should not have these things and that's why we have laws against them."
People SHOULD have these things. I know plenty of well-to-do people in rural America--the people that spend thousands or millions on tractor-pulling, racecar driving, legal gun collections, etc.--that would have caches like this if it were legal. We would be better off, too; an armed society needs arms. This man's cache sounds like a good start for a small community.


Quote
I'd find a quiet place to use it.  
Where, and how, are you going to use 40-some machine guns, explosives, and grenade launchers? If you don't report the stuff, you are going to jail too, in a big way. It's very sad but if I bought it, I would probably have no other choice but to report it, maybe after pillaging some ammo and AR uppers.

Quote
It's such a grave risk that it hurt how many people in 40 years?  Oh, none?  Huh, must not have been all that dangerous in this mans hands after all.

You are right of course, but I've seen this kind of fallacy pop up before. I was reading about a scientist who studied the drug content of the sewage at wastewater treatment plants to determine community drug use patterns. He came to the conclusion that the useage rate for certain drugs was many times times as high as estimated by other means such as arrest rates, street prices, etc.

A person with a balanced attitude would conclude that if many more people are using the drugs and you didn't even know it, the drugs must not be as 'dangerous' to society as previously thought. But rather than conclude that these drugs must be more harmless than previously thought, of course he came to the conclusion that these drugs were EVEN MORE of a problem than previously thought, because more people were using them than otherwise had been estimated!
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freakazoid

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 12:52:19 PM »
Quote
Or perhaps that gets smuggled in from China...wasn't there a sting maybe 10-15 years ago when the ATF busted some chinese businessmen trying to unload a few thousand AK-47's courtesy of Norinco?

A few thousand? Dang, I can't imagine all of those going to gang members. What would they all be brought in for? Underground collectors?

Quote
Where, and how, are you going to use 40-some machine guns, explosives, and grenade launchers? If you don't report the stuff, you are going to jail too, in a big way.

You're only going to jail if you get caught. And you'll only get caught if you do something stupid. This guy had them for 40 years and never got caught because he didn't run his mouth off or shoot them all the time, if ever. But if you did want to shoot them then you'd just have to find some secluded place away from prying eyes and ears.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

Viking

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Re: 67 Year Old Going to Prison for Cold War Weapons Cache
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 12:58:15 PM »
A few thousand? Dang, I can't imagine all of those going to gang members. What would they all be brought in for? Underground collectors?

You're only going to jail if you get caught. And you'll only get caught if you do something stupid. This guy had them for 40 years and never got caught because he didn't run his mouth off or shoot them all the time, if ever. But if you did want to shoot them then you'd just have to find some secluded place away from prying eyes and ears.
Here's an article about the little "incident": http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,135999,00.html
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila