shopping for gold.

[makattak]

Properly stored coffee and tobacco.  Both addictive, and even those of us with seeds and knowledge to grow them will have a few months' lead time - much longer than the addicts will want to be without a fix.

A pallet or two of name-brand sodas could also be worth a lot if you have the room to store it, for the same reason.

For that matter, alcohol likely fits in that category.

Those are actually suggested by ferfal in another of his posts because even if your society (somewhat) comes back, these luxury items become useful for bribes.

[Jamisjockey]

Properly stored coffee and tobacco.  Both addictive, and even those of us with seeds and knowledge to grow them will have a few months' lead time - much longer than the addicts will want to be without a fix.

A pallet or two of name-brand sodas could also be worth a lot if you have the room to store it, for the same reason.

Coffee and tobacco, though, would be expensive to store in bulk ahead of a breakdown.  If we're talking Argentina style, I agree with ferfal, that you'd be better off investing into things that will continue your income stream during such turbulent times.  End of the world as we know it?  Investing in the necessities and ways to create the necesseites.  I'd think that being able to grow and preserve food would get one a very, very long ways in such a scenerio.

My 10 year plan is to have income property.  We're having to hit reset on some of our personal spending habits, otherwise it'd be my 5 year plan. 

[KD5NRH]

Coffee and tobacco, though, would be expensive to store in bulk ahead of a breakdown.

That depends largely on the climate; if you can get bulk tobacco leaves cured, and dry them out properly, they'll keep a long time and still taste fine when brought back up to the right moisture content.

Investing in the necessities and ways to create the necesseites.

If you're the only one with smokes and coffee, you'll find plenty of people willing to provide you with necessities.

[Jamisjockey]

The bribe aspect is really interesting.

What is the shelf life of the average booze (rum, vodka, whiskey)?  Pretty much indefinte, right? 

I looked up bulk tobacco, vacum sealed 16 ounces for about $40 before shipping.  Not sure how to get dried unprepared leaves.  How many cigarettes would a pound of tobacco probably make? 

[Brad Johnson]

I looked up bulk tobacco, vacum sealed 16 ounces for about $40 before shipping.  Not sure how to get dried unprepared leaves.  How many cigarettes would a pound of tobacco probably make? 

Figure roughly six oz to the carton.  Also, most tobacco mfgs offer an unflavored pipe-cut bulk pack.  Criss Cross Smooth Blend is one.  It doesn't get hit with the monstrous tobacco tax the cigarette-cut bulk tobacco does.

Brad

[Jamisjockey]

Interesting.  So a pound would make a couple cartons worth of cigs.
Considering that in the long run, people would make their own booze, I'd think of the "sin" items, tobacco probably makes the most sense to store for future bartering or bribery.  Also, considering the way things are going with taxes on tobacco....
Can pipe tobacco be smoked in a cigarette?

[alex_trebek]

Interesting.  So a pound would make a couple cartons worth of cigs.
Considering that in the long run, people would make their own booze, I'd think of the "sin" items, tobacco probably makes the most sense to store for future bartering or bribery.  Also, considering the way things are going with taxes on tobacco....
Can pipe tobacco be smoked in a cigarette?

the janitor at my old job would roll pipe tobacco in his cigarettes to cut down on cost. Seemed to work for him.

[KD5NRH]

Can pipe tobacco be smoked in a cigarette?

A lot of the "pipe tobacco" in cheap bulk packs these days is just coarse-cut cigarette tobacco.  That's specifically to get around the ridiculous tax increase on loose cigarette tobacco. (around $24/lb, IIRC, up from around $1/lb) 

As for whole leaves, if the midribs haven't been removed, and the leaf isn't otherwise prepared, (such as shredding without removing the rib - curing doesn't count)  it's not really tobacco yet for tax purposes.  If you can find somebody growing it locally, you can make them a deal on leftover leaves.

[CAnnoneer]

How did tobacco become a survival necessity?

[Nick1911]

How did tobacco become a survival necessity?

A fair number of people are addicted to it.

As such, it becomes highly valuable when normal supply lines sources dry up.

[Brad Johnson]

Can pipe tobacco be smoked in a cigarette?

Depends.  If it's an unflavored, non-cavendish you can.  It's nothing but rough-cut regular tobacco.  Flavored or cavendish, I wouldn't.  The flavoring oils can make things pretty harsh.

Brad

[CAnnoneer]

A fair number of people are addicted to it.

As such, it becomes highly valuable when normal supply lines sources dry up.

So, they would rather smoke than eat? For how long?

[Balog]

It all depends on if you think tikiwiki will be a Mad Max style return to the Dark Ages, or an Argentinean style hyperinflation.

[AJ Dual]

Soap of all kinds, disposable diapers, baby wipes, feminine hygiene products, baby formula, cooking oil (especially if things are so bad there are bulk-grain handouts from .gov), sugar, salt, trash bags, charcoal briquettes, CLEAN/un-used 5gal buckets.

These are all things that are dirt cheap now, can keep for a long time, and are invaluable if SHTF.

[Perd Hapley]

How did tobacco become a survival necessity?

Alcohol and gold aren't survival necessities, either.  And yet..

[CAnnoneer]

Alcohol and gold aren't survival necessities, either.  And yet..

Precisely my point, minus the "yet". I think both are ridiculously overvalued for purposes of preparing for Postapocalyptia.

[alex_trebek]

Precisely my point, minus the "yet". I think both are ridiculously overvalued for purposes of preparing for Postapocalyptia.

In general I agree with you, however someone in that situation will need to be resourceful and clever.

alcohol has uses as an antiseptic, painkiller, disinfectant, fuel source (if >50%), and ice melt.

Food for thought. If you store everclear you can mix it with small quantities of gas if you desperate for fuel.

As I understand it, the only difference between the e85 cars and normal cars is the fuel line is upgraded so it won't corrode. If you go that route, try to find a dessicant that will ab/dsorb water from the everclear.

[AJ Dual]

alcohol has uses as an antiseptic, painkiller, disinfectant, fuel source (if >50%), and ice melt.

Anyone else thinking of that one episode of STNG where Picard, Wesley, and that other guy got stuck on that desert planet? 

[Balog]

Precisely my point, minus the "yet". I think both are ridiculously overvalued for purposes of preparing for Postapocalyptia.

Again, this depends on what you envision that Doomsday scenario to be. Based on the history of actual modern countries, that have actually collapsed, they would in fact be excellent to have. But then it's been a while since I watched Mad Max so... 

[coppertales]

Alcohol is a necessity in my survival kit.  I have a 1.75 of vodka and burbon in my kit at camp and here at home.  I also have two gallons of lamp oil and two gallons of Coleman fuel at each location too.  I store rice and beans, dried, in plastic jugs and my selection of canned goods gets rotated on a regular basis.  I have a stash of silver at both locations.  Only one ounce of gold.  That is what started this thread in the first place.  Of course, a supply of guns and ammo are a given....chris3

[CAnnoneer]

Again, this depends on what you envision that Doomsday scenario to be. Based on the history of actual modern countries, that have actually collapsed, they would in fact be excellent to have. But then it's been a while since I watched Mad Max so... 

I get that point completely. But, I am not so certain that history bears the conclusion nearly as well as it is commonly perceived. Counterexamples:

1) gold should have been a great hedge in the Great Depression, but then FDR comes about and outlaws privately held gold.
2) The richer jews had gold and jewelry that should have saved them, but instead made them greater targets for the Nazis, for both extortion and expropriation.

If we are talking about a mini-collapse rather than mutant-zombie Postapocalyptia, it seems ferfal is much closer to the money when he talks about investments that would generate income in almost any conditions of limited severity. For example, rental properties or a small business providing less dispensable products or services.

[Balog]

I thought we were talking about using alcohol/tobacco as bribes?  I'd think gold might work well for that, too. And as a hedge against hyper-inflation.

[ilbob]

Plenty of places on the Internet to buy all the physical gold you want.

Brick and mortar dealers are not holding a lot of gold because it is so volatile. If they can't sell it quick, they wholesale it off to reduce their risk.

The mint stopped making 2009 bullion coins and started making 2010 coins, but won't release them until 2010.

[rcnixon]

If you are intent upon buying gold, may I humbly suggest www.ajpm.com.  I am not afilliated with them in any way except as a satisfied customer.  When you strike a deal there and pay, that price is good regardless of any move in the market.  You may have to wait a bit, a couple of weeks or so for shipment, while they accumulate enough orders to buy a hundred or more ounces at a time.  That being said, whatever the price you paid is the price at shipping time, no crying "we had to pay more so we want more money from you".  If the price goes up, you win.  If the price goes down, you lose.  That's how it is with commodities.  AJPM is a square trader and a fair dealer.

Russ

[Jamisjockey]

I thought we were talking about using alcohol/tobacco as bribes?  I'd think gold might work well for that, too. And as a hedge against hyper-inflation.

Bribes, and as common barter fodder.  Your neighbor down the street has a kick ass garden.  You trade some booze for some fresh food, and then can that fresh food.  Win win.  Or, you need to clear a checkpoint without being searched, because you're packing heat.  Cigarettes for the soldiers manning the checkpoint and you get a wave through.
Gold is so that you can march into the bank and convert it to hard currency, regardless of what the exchange rate is. 
When the Yellowstone Super Volcanoe blows....well, then its a different story.  Might be years before any kind of organized civilization emerges from the survivors.  If you're able to homestead in place, then gold might reemerge with some value.  Having the ability to grow and keep your own food is king in that scenerio.