Author Topic: Bloody Canadians  (Read 7703 times)

vaskidmark

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Bloody Canadians
« on: October 29, 2009, 03:56:01 PM »
http://www.spinner.com/2009/10/29/folk-singer-taylor-mitchell-killed-by-coyotes/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spinner.com%2F2009%2F10%2F29%2Ffolk-singer-taylor-mitchell-killed-by-coyotes%2F

First rule violation - don't go hiking alone.

But the part that sticks in my craw is "Nearby walkers heard her screams and alerted park rangers".

A-freaking-lerted park rangers!  They heard screams and a-freaking-lerted park rangers.  Nothing to indicate that one of them ran towards the scene to see why someone was screaming, to see if there was some way they could intervene in the situation, to see if they could help!  Not one!!

I have been to Cape Breton Highlands Park.  It's maybe 15 miles East to West and 5 miles North to South.  The place does not have "walking paths" with pay phones every 1/4-mile or so.  There are some "roads" through the park, but they do not form anything like an effective network or grid for getting quickly across from point A to point B so much as they circle the park boundaries.  While I never tried to use a cell phone there, I imagine there are not a network of towers that make cell use easy, let alone possible.  All this to explain why the rant over "Nearby walkers heard her screams and alerted park rangers".

How many bites does it take from a pair of coyotes to lose enough blood to die, even after they find you, get a helicopter to you, and medivac you to the hospital where you can get blood replenishment?

Nothing indicates the coyotes were rabid.  Taylor Mitchell could well have been, as is stated in other news stories (go search for them), mistaken for a deer or other prey animal.  Two hungry coyotes vs. one small almost-adult is possible.  Two hungry coyotes who have taken down one small almost-adult confronted by two or more "nearby walkers" who ran to the scene, saw what was happening, and started yelling and waving their arms - I don't think the coyotes would have stuck around to defend their meal.

Bloody Canadians must have decided to copy more than just tea-drinking and National Health Service from formerlyGreat Britain.

I'm going to get something to lower my blood pressure.

stay safe.

skidmark
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 04:05:56 PM »
They've taken all the fight out of them.
Look, tiny text!

makattak

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 04:11:18 PM »
I will not defend those who just ran away. However, I will note for you the concurrent thread about the rape in California where numerous people just looked on.

This is not confined to Canadians, I believe it is far more widespread.
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Balog

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 04:11:39 PM »
In today's "bad ways to die category" we have a strong contender...

That being said, these may have been rabid or otherwise sick if they were as aggressive as indicated.
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Tallpine

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 06:00:09 PM »
Sad.  =(  She was really pretty, too.

Up until this day, I never really considered coyotes to be a threat to adult humans.

I guess this is just another good reason to carry a sidearm all the time.
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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 08:55:10 PM »
Quote
I guess this is just another good reason to carry a sidearm all the time.

If you need a reason, that's a good one.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 09:06:33 PM »
not intended as any disrespect to the poor young woman but with canines attitude really counts.  too many folks get lost in a disney "look its so cute" fantasy. my kids learned that they neeed to ne alpha to the mutts as soon as i could make it happen and size and aggresssion can back off many wild canines. this girl was lacking in size. i might have to get a new younger dog here right away  my older mutts  are getting where their taking on a couple yotes might be problematic. anybody got an experience with dogs that are suitable around small kids and still yote destroyers?  my husky lab was but shes getting old. (no overchurkas please  i'm not sure i'm man enough)
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Balog

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 09:06:40 PM »
You've really gotta wonder how this played out. Even if they were unusually aggressive most adults should be able to fight off coyotes. Maybe she thought it was a "play dead" situation like a bear? Maybe co-ordinated tactics on the coyotes part?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2009, 10:58:53 PM »
Details aside, I can't imagine a much shittier way to die.  Hard to believe an adult human couldn't take a couple of scrawny dogs.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2009, 11:11:25 PM »
one of the stories made some mention of yotes breeding with wolves making em bigger.  was my understanding that wolves kill em  that they don't coexist well if at all. i've never heard of wolf yote mixes  seen some coy dogs though
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2009, 11:26:13 PM »
anybody got an experience with dogs that are suitable around small kids and still yote destroyers?  my husky lab was but shes getting old. (no overchurkas please  i'm not sure i'm man enough)



Doberman
Max, our 7 month old Doberman*, has turned out to be wonderful with the kids.  He is around 60lbs, likely headed to the neighborhood of 85lbs.

When I write "wonderful," I mean stuff like getting into the sandbox and sitting next to my boy as he plays in the sandbox.  He will also crawl into the trampoline with my daughter and enjoys the jumping & tumbling she does.  He adores both my son and daughter.  My 5YO son can go up to him, open his jaws, and drop a heartworm pill down his throat.  My 3YO daughter is not quite able to manipulate his jaws like that, yet.  They can also use him as a pillow and play around with his ears & dewlaps, looking at his teeth.  He loves that sort of attention.

They are called "velcro" dogs because they like to be near their humans so much.

He has shown some prey drive, too, so varmints would likely get a chomping though I have yet to see him nab anything like a bird or squirrel.

Most references say that they need no training to protect their family members, though I haven't seen him get defensive around anyone yet.  Then again, noody has threatened the kiddos in his presence, yet.

Max is the easiest dog I have ever trained.  He is all about pleasing his humans.

I need to get some new pics of him, as he is getting quite handsome, even though he has not completely filled out yet.

German Shorthaired Pointer
You might have seen what I wrote about Misty, our 45lb female GSP, and her protectiveness towards our daughter.  I think she has proven her bona fides.

Ten, our late 65lb male GSP was a stone killer of varmints.  He had at least a half-dozen feral cats under his belt that we knew of and could nab a bird on the wing.  Squirrels used to outrunning other dogs were in peril if Ten was around.  He also was of a musculature & size that young college gals thought he was beautiful, but young urban toughs and derelicts with any sense kept a distance.

Ten was not as human-oriented as Max or Misty, but he was still the sort of dog who liked his family and had to spend time with us to be happy.

GSPs were bred as utility dogs, able to point, retrieve, and control varmints around the farmstead. 


Coyotes
Online references say adult coyotes usually get from between 15-45lbs, with the larger specimens found in the north.  In Texas, most folks say around 25lbs. 

I'd think a 45lb coyote would be a serious dang predator, especially if he was hunting with buddies, as they are wont to do in these parts.  70+lbs of coyote could be a serious threat to a human.

I'd assume more than one coyote as a threat.  Matter of fact, doesn't the OP say it was two coyotes?

I think I'd want a med-large or bigger dog.  Misty, at 45lbs, would be a little small for two coyotes, though she'd be a fine "CIWS" to complement a larger dog.

A few miles ot the north of Richardson, in Plano, I regularly saw coyotes inside the apartment complex fence.  Some folks would let their cats out, so coyotes found easy pickings.


* He's got some German/Euro dobe blood in him, about 1/2.  That'll make him a bit more stout than all-American dobes.
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roo_ster

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2009, 11:28:14 PM »
Oh, read this on wikipedia:
Due to an absence of harassment by residents, urban coyotes lose their natural fear of humans, which is further worsened by people intentionally feeding coyotes. In such situations, some coyotes have begun to act aggressively toward humans, chasing joggers and bicyclists, confronting people walking their dogs, and stalking small children.[40] Like wolves, non-rabid coyotes usually target small children, mostly under the age of 10, though some adults have been bitten.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2009, 11:33:52 PM »
the best dog i ever had was a black lab dobe mix  looked like a solid black dobie just a lil more filled out than the usual destroyer cut dobie.  had the velvet fur.  her one flaw was she hated cops and was hostile when they approached till i told her no. i hitch hiked thousands of miles with her in the 70's  was better than an armed bodyguard. i've slept out inn places i wouldn't drive through in daylight today. i'd likely be dead were it not for a couple of my dogs.  they had better sense than i did
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 01:13:58 AM »
I've been thinking about this. She most likely had a mummy bag, right? If the coyotes started the fight by biting her face in a way that blinded her, or her throat and got a big artery...

Coydogs are worse than coyotes, and ferals are worst of all. Bigger, no fear of humans, and lack of hunting skills leading to great hunger. Bad news, feral dogs.

As for kid safe breeds, the oft maligned pit bulls are an excellent choice. Insanely loyal, very high pain tolerance, and repeatedly demonstrated to be the best of the canidae in a fight.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2009, 01:19:15 AM »
I've been thinking about this. She most likely had a mummy bag, right? If the coyotes started the fight by biting her face in a way that blinded her, or her throat and got a big artery...

Coydogs are worse than coyotes, and ferals are worst of all. Bigger, no fear of humans, and lack of hunting skills leading to great hunger. Bad news, feral dogs.

As for kid safe breeds, the oft maligned pit bulls are an excellent choice. Insanely loyal, very high pain tolerance, and repeatedly demonstrated to be the best of the canidae in a fight.


i have a male neutered about 8 months offered me now  still a lil wild but i am tempted.  might want a farm dog that knows not to eat chickens and goats
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 01:27:47 AM »
Pits are a lot like labs and cocker spaniels in that many of them are churned out by careless imbeciles who do not select for temperament. Back when dog fighting was a legitimate sport like horse racing, breeders were professionals who wouldn't stand for human aggression. These days dog fighters are most often just punk gang bangers who think hurting their dog to make it mean is the way to go. Find someone breeding them for work* and you'll be fine.

*Most common work pits are used for (aside from therapy dogs and SAR stuff that wouldn't really help you) is as catch dogs for hog hunting. Failing that, any of the old "game" lines that have been preserved would be excellent.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Jocassee

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 08:40:20 AM »


Doberman


Another vote for Dobes. The two we have been owned have been great. If well bred they are highly sociable around people, good with kids once they have matured and not so bitey-nibbly, and have a very strong prey instinct. When we lived in a house with a smallish back yard surrounded by trees, one of our Dobes was fond of charging foraging doves and snagging them in mid-air.

As far as defense, our dobes didn't like black people...make of that what you will...but other than that they would only get keyed up when we did. If there was someone in my house I would rather have a Doberman than a loaded gun.
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Stand_watie

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 09:45:43 AM »


Doberman
Max, our 7 month old Doberman*, has turned out to be wonderful with the kids.  He is around 60lbs, likely headed to the neighborhood of 85lbs.

When I write "wonderful," I mean stuff like getting into the sandbox and sitting next to my boy as he plays in the sandbox.  He will also crawl into the trampoline with my daughter and enjoys the jumping & tumbling she does.  He adores both my son and daughter.  My 5YO son can go up to him, open his jaws, and drop a heartworm pill down his throat.  My 3YO daughter is not quite able to manipulate his jaws like that, yet.  They can also use him as a pillow and play around with his ears & dewlaps, looking at his teeth.  He loves that sort of attention.

They are called "velcro" dogs because they like to be near their humans so much.

He has shown some prey drive, too, so varmints would likely get a chomping though I have yet to see him nab anything like a bird or squirrel.

Most references say that they need no training to protect their family members, though I haven't seen him get defensive around anyone yet.  Then again, noody has threatened the kiddos in his presence, yet.

Max is the easiest dog I have ever trained.  He is all about pleasing his humans.

I need to get some new pics of him, as he is getting quite handsome, even though he has not completely filled out yet.

German Shorthaired Pointer
You might have seen what I wrote about Misty, our 45lb female GSP, and her protectiveness towards our daughter.  I think she has proven her bona fides.

Ten, our late 65lb male GSP was a stone killer of varmints.  He had at least a half-dozen feral cats under his belt that we knew of and could nab a bird on the wing.  Squirrels used to outrunning other dogs were in peril if Ten was around.  He also was of a musculature & size that young college gals thought he was beautiful, but young urban toughs and derelicts with any sense kept a distance.

Ten was not as human-oriented as Max or Misty, but he was still the sort of dog who liked his family and had to spend time with us to be happy.

GSPs were bred as utility dogs, able to point, retrieve, and control varmints around the farmstead. 


Coyotes
Online references say adult coyotes usually get from between 15-45lbs, with the larger specimens found in the north.  In Texas, most folks say around 25lbs. 

I'd think a 45lb coyote would be a serious dang predator, especially if he was hunting with buddies, as they are wont to do in these parts.  70+lbs of coyote could be a serious threat to a human.

I'd assume more than one coyote as a threat.  Matter of fact, doesn't the OP say it was two coyotes?

I think I'd want a med-large or bigger dog.  Misty, at 45lbs, would be a little small for two coyotes, though she'd be a fine "CIWS" to complement a larger dog.

A few miles ot the north of Richardson, in Plano, I regularly saw coyotes inside the apartment complex fence.  Some folks would let their cats out, so coyotes found easy pickings.


* He's got some German/Euro dobe blood in him, about 1/2.  That'll make him a bit more stout than all-American dobes.

     The Rottweilers I've had experience with made great family dogs and the breed is stout enough to handle several coyotes at once. Great Pyrenees are also plenty stout, but I might worry about the legal liability of a G.P. because they are hyperprotective of the children they bond with to the point that you might have to worry about your mailman/water meter reader getting bit.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2009, 09:51:04 AM »
i have looked at pyrennes  we have animals and a herd/guardian dog is good  my lab husky is a chicken killer.i need another horse or pony  then the small critters will be safe never lot a hen till the pony died.  the pony taught the dogs to respect her  well
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

roo_ster

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2009, 10:10:10 AM »
i have looked at pyrennes  we have animals and a herd/guardian dog is good  my lab husky is a chicken killer.i need another horse or pony  then the small critters will be safe never lot a hen till the pony died.  the pony taught the dogs to respect her  well

Maybe a male donkey?  My wife says that when she was growing up outside of Ft Worth, a lot of farmers would keep on with other less-able livestock like goats & sheep as coyote protection.
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roo_ster

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mtnbkr

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2009, 10:13:51 AM »
I've heard good things about mountain curs and families.  Apparently they will fight to the death to protect their family but are docile and will put up with anything if you're considered "family".  They supposedly do well with kids.

My uncle has raised curs and and off and they've always seemed to be happy, goofy dogs.  I never saw one in a situation that would require it to become aggressive, so I can't speak to that.  They were high energy and muscular though.

Chris

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 10:16:56 AM »
Maybe a male donkey?  My wife says that when she was growing up outside of Ft Worth, a lot of farmers would keep on with other less-able livestock like goats & sheep as coyote protection.

I believe the correct answer here is a llama.  Lots of ranchers around here stick a llama in with their herds to run off the riff-raff (coyotes, wolves, hunters, etc).  Those buggers can be mean.

Edit:  I say hunters because one took exception to me crossing a pasture to get to a duck pond once (I had permission).  It was a bit exciting!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 10:25:50 AM by 41magsnub »

Stand_watie

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 10:21:11 AM »
Maybe a male donkey?  My wife says that when she was growing up outside of Ft Worth, a lot of farmers would keep on with other less-able livestock like goats & sheep as coyote protection.

     A lot of my neighbors keep goats and a donkey with them to chase off coyotes. Apparently donkeys are easily pissed off by predatory canines, and eager to act on that feeling.
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Stand_watie

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 10:30:06 AM »
I've heard good things about mountain curs and families.  Apparently they will fight to the death to protect their family but are docile and will put up with anything if you're considered "family".  They supposedly do well with kids.

My uncle has raised curs and and off and they've always seemed to be happy, goofy dogs.  I never saw one in a situation that would require it to become aggressive, so I can't speak to that.  They were high energy and muscular though.

Chris

    We had a mountain cur (try "black mouthed cur" if "mountain cur" doesn't work for your google) for about six months. Very protective toward my (ex) wife and daughter. Scared a few UPS men into being afraid to get out of their truck. Wouldn't back down from our "alpha" Rottweiler/Shepherd mix despite a 1/3 size differential and always coming out on the losing end. Sadly, his car chasing habits ended his life prematurely. I believe "Ol' Yeller", while depicted as a yellow lab in the disney movie, was actually intended to be a mountain cur by the author.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Bloody Canadians
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 10:57:54 AM »
I believe "Ol' Yeller", while depicted as a yellow lab in the disney movie, was actually intended to be a mountain cur by the author.

I have heard the same.

Based on what I've read and what I've seen via my Uncle's curs, I'd love to have one, but not while living in a suburban townhouse.

Chris