Author Topic: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy  (Read 6748 times)

Ben

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Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« on: January 31, 2010, 10:35:23 AM »
So what do you all think? Sincere or scam?

On the face of it, this is the very first thing Obama has done (er, said he was going to do) that I have not completely disagreed with. In fact I see the tact of wrapping it in with climate as something a Republican President would do as well for the sell. You're always gonna get opposition from the screwball enviros who lack an 8th grade foundation in science, but on the whole, it seems like a good sell if he keeps the promise.

I was also quite shocked that an AP article admitted that 70% of current clean energy comes from our 104 nuke plants (mostly shocked that they admitted "clean" and "nuclear" can go in the same sentence).

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100131/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_nuclear

Obama pushes nuclear energy to boost climate bill
By DINA CAPPIELLO and MATTHEW DALY, Associated Press Writers Dina Cappiello And Matthew Daly, Associated Press Writers 1 hr 58 mins ago

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is endorsing nuclear energy like never before, trying to win over Republicans and moderate Democrats on climate and energy legislation.

Obama singled out nuclear power in his State of the Union address, and his spending plan for the next budget year is expected to include billions of more dollars in federal guarantees for new nuclear reactors. This emphasis reflects both the political difficulties of passing a climate bill in an election year and a shift from his once cautious embrace of nuclear energy.

He's now calling for a new generation of nuclear power plants.

During the campaign, Obama said he would support nuclear power with caveats. He was concerned about how to deal with radioactive waste and how much federal money was needed to support construction costs. Those concerns remain; some say they've gotten worse.

His administration has pledged to close Yucca Mountain, the planned multibillion-dollar burial ground in the Nevada desert for high-level radioactive waste. Energy Secretary Steven Chu has been criticized for his slow rollout of $18.5 billion in loan guarantees to spur investment in new nuclear power plants, and the administration killed a Bush-era proposal to reprocess nuclear fuel.

What has changed is the outlook for climate and energy legislation, a White House priority. The House passed a bill in June that would limit emissions of heat-trapping gases for the first time. But the legislation led to a Republican revolt in the Senate, where the recent election of Republican Scott Brown from Massachusetts has made the measure even more of a long shot.

Obama reaffirmed his commitment to a bill in his State of the Union speech as a way to create more clean-energy jobs, but added that "means building a new generation of safe, clean nuclear power plants in this country."

To back that up, he is expected to seek $54 billion in additional loan guarantees for nuclear power in his 2011 budget request to Congress on Monday, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the request has not been made public.

White House officials say Obama's actions reflect his long support of nuclear power. But lawmakers from both parties say the speech reflected a new urgency and willingness to reach out to Republicans who have criticized Obama for not talking more about the role nuclear energy can play in slowing global warming.

The 104 nuclear reactors in operation in 31 states provide only 20 percent of the nation's electricity. But they are responsible for 70 percent of the power from pollution-free sources, including wind, solar and hydroelectric dams.

Several analyses of the climate bills passed by the House and under consideration in the Senate suggest that the U.S. will have to build many more plants in order to meet the 80 percent reduction in greenhouse gases by 2050 called for in the legislation. One of those studies, by the Environmental Protection Agency, assumed 180 new reactors would come on line by 2050.

"I see an evolving attitude on energy by the president," said Sen. Lamar Alexander, who has called for 100 plants to be built in the next 20 years. Alexander, R-Tenn., said Obama's mention of nuclear energy in the address Wednesday night was the most important statement that the president has made on nuclear power.

"Up until now, the administration has been pursuing a national windmill policy instead of a national energy policy, which is the military equivalent of going to war in sailboats," he said.

Well before the speech, three senators cobbling together a Senate energy and climate bill — Massachusetts Democrat John Kerry, Connecticut independent Joe Lieberman and South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham — were pledging to include more in the bill for nuclear energy and offshore drilling to secure the necessary 60 votes to overcome a likely filibuster from opponents.

What's unclear is whether Obama's endorsement will help. It could attract more Republican and moderate Democrats. But nuclear energy and offshore drilling may alienate some liberal Democrats and environmentalists. One environmental group, Friends of the Earth, called it "a kick in the gut."

Graham, in an Associated Press interview, said Obama's speech was an opening that he hoped to take advantage of to court more GOP support. But he said some pro-nuclear Republicans, while pleased with the president's remarks, are nervous about the other part of the bill — a plan to limit heat-trapping pollution, which will raise energy costs.

"The president did a great job putting nuclear on the table in a robust way, as well as offshore drilling for oil and natural gas," said Graham. "I hope Republicans understand we have a once in lifetime chance, but in return we have to come up with emissions standards."

Lieberman praised Obama for "reaching out beyond the Democratic Party base," but said it may not be enough to win the support of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. McCain criticized Obama's stance on nuclear power during the 2008 campaign, but has backed efforts to reduce global warming.

McCain spokeswoman Brooke Buchanan said that while the senator was encouraged, the administration needs to address reprocessing and disposal if nuclear power is to be a viable option.

On Friday, the Department of Energy announced a bipartisan commission to investigate alternatives to Yucca Mountain.

The nuclear energy industry is waiting to see what else the administration will deliver. Its wish list includes more financing for loan guarantees, as well as tax incentives for nuclear energy manufacturing and production facilities.

"The turnaround in the last year has just been astounding and welcome," said Jim Connaughton, the former chairman of the White House Council of Environmental Quality under President George W. Bush. Connaughton now works for Constellation Energy, the Baltimore-based energy company that owns a stake in five nuclear reactors and is seeking to build more.

"There is no question that if you look at the votes, for a majority of them that have been on the fence, restoring America's leadership in nuclear energy is an essential requirement."
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PTK

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 11:21:33 AM »
Is it bad that all I can think is, "close the coal and NG plants now, and I will gladly have your nuclear plants running next Tuesday"?
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Gowen

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 11:42:20 AM »
I'm good with it, just don't send the waste to my state.  I don't relish the idea of nuclear waste traveling within 2 mi of my house on a rail car.  And yeah, I know how secure they claim the containers are, but I seem to remember the Murrah building being gutted by fertilizer and diesel fuel. 
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 11:44:49 AM »
Is it bad that all I can think is, "close the coal and NG plants now, and I will gladly have your nuclear plants running next Tuesday"?

That is my worry, bait and switch, everyone buys in and passes a climate bill and then the nuke plants never get built, the pesky EPA or something holds them up for decades while the coal plants still close and the wind farms go up everywhere to suck tax dollars out of the breeze.

Be good if we get more nuke plants though.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 11:47:57 AM »
So what do you all think? Sincere or scam?
Anything this man does that isn't rooted in Marxism is a scam.

PTK

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 11:49:48 AM »
I'm good with it, just don't send the waste to my state.  I don't relish the idea of nuclear waste traveling within 2 mi of my house on a rail car.  And yeah, I know how secure they claim the containers are, but I seem to remember the Murrah building being gutted by fertilizer and diesel fuel. 

I saw some of the container tests on film - HOLY MOLY is all I can say. There's nothing short of an intentional and deliberate and very well carried out attack that would actually break those containers open.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 12:05:14 PM »
The larger question is, would you accept the promise of nuclear plants for a job-killing, tax-raising cap and trade system?

Cap and trade would be one of the final nails in the coffin of the US economy. Nuclear plants should be addressed on their own merits.

Gowen

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 12:15:57 PM »
Cap and trade are just code words for control and taxation.
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sumpnz

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 12:42:44 PM »
The larger question is, would you accept the promise of nuclear plants for a job-killing, tax-raising cap and trade system?

No.

But I would take a crapload of nuclear reactors in trade for the current coal/NG/Hydro/etc that we have now.  Those resources are better used for other things, and will last us a lot longer without electricity generation using them up.

Ben

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 01:48:34 PM »
The larger question is, would you accept the promise of nuclear plants for a job-killing, tax-raising cap and trade system?

Cap and trade would be one of the final nails in the coffin of the US economy. Nuclear plants should be addressed on their own merits.

Cap and Trade or any number of other attachments to the policy. Hence my caveat that on the face of it, this is the first thing I don't outright disagree with, versus actually agree with. One always has to worry if the blade is poisoned or not. :)
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drewtam

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 02:25:17 PM »
Scanr, do you live near a coal fired powerplant?
Do you live in a state that uses coal for its electricity?
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RocketMan

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 02:48:06 PM »
I'm good with it, just don't send the waste to my state.  I don't relish the idea of nuclear waste traveling within 2 mi of my house on a rail car.  And yeah, I know how secure they claim the containers are, but I seem to remember the Murrah building being gutted by fertilizer and diesel fuel.  

Not a good comparison, scanr2.  Well beyond apples and oranges.   A boxcar of ANFO wouldn't break one.  It might toss it into the next county, but the contents would still be intact and secure.
Do a little research on how those nuke waste containers are constructed and strength tested and you will see that they are nearly indestructable.

edited for speeling.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 05:44:40 PM by RocketMan »
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mtnbkr

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2010, 02:53:30 PM »
I'm good with it, just don't send the waste to my state.  I don't relish the idea of nuclear waste traveling within 2 mi of my house on a rail car.  And yeah, I know how secure they claim the containers are, but I seem to remember the Murrah building being gutted by fertilizer and diesel fuel. 

It has to go somewhere.  If not your state and not anyone else's, where does it go?

Chris

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 05:31:26 PM »
It has to go somewhere.  If not your state and not anyone else's, where does it go?

Chris

Put it in my backyard. I'm not a NIMBY person.

And, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we reuse a great deal of that waste?
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sumpnz

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 05:38:29 PM »
Put it in my backyard. I'm not a NIMBY person.

And, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't we reuse a great deal of that waste?

Yup.  Except for an executive order orginally signed, IIRC by Carter.  The French, of all people, do this all the time.  The "problem" was that refining the waste for re-use resulted in potentially weapons grade plutonium being extracted as a fission by-product.  'Course, there's no reason why a Pu reactor couldn't be built to use that for energy rather than weapons.  

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 06:36:45 PM »
Nevada has no nuclear plants, so we do not produce any of the nuclear waste.  So the Not In My BackYard analogy doesn't fit.  That would be the same as me taking a dump in a bucket and driving over to your house to dump it in your yard.  We have some coal plants, a lot of geothermal plants and solar, in southern Nevada we have hydroelectric.

I find it amazing that most conservatives I meet online are all for state's rights, except when it comes to nuclear waste.  "It's got to go somewhere."
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 06:51:13 PM »
Have any of Nevada's rights been violated in the construction of the waste storage facility?  (Honest question, I dunno much aobut it.)

I could understand an objection to putting nuclear waste on someone's private property, literally in their backyard, against their wishes and in violation of their property rights.  I doubt that's the case here, though. 

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 09:14:13 PM »
Have any of Nevada's rights been violated in the construction of the waste storage facility?  (Honest question, I dunno much aobut it.)

I could understand an objection to putting nuclear waste on someone's private property, literally in their backyard, against their wishes and in violation of their property rights.  I doubt that's the case here, though. 

The storage facility is in the middle of the Nevada Test Range, which is where the majority of nuclear bombs were tested in this country.

In other words, it's all federal property.  (About 85% of Nevada is owned by the feds in one form another, though). And it's smack in the middle of a place that has been nuked to hell already anyway.  Personally, I can't think of a much better place to put it.

Also, for what it's worth, I am also a Nevada resident.  Nevada missed a huge opportunity with Yucca Mountain.  We could have charged the feds a lot of money for storing and transporting the waste through the state.  Instead, the state government fought it tooth and nail.  Oh well.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 09:19:47 PM »
Having been to the Nevada Test Site many times, and having also been a Radiation Safety Officer, and also studied up on those transportation casks, to me it's much ado about nothing.  The amount of high-level radioactive waste produced pales in comparison to the amount of crap we dump into the atmosphere via coal-fired power plants, and that doesn't even take into account the environmental damage created digging the fossil fuel up. 
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brimic

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 09:32:10 PM »
Quote
So what do you all think? Sincere or scam?

I'll take bull manure from the Man-child president for $1000, Alex.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2010, 10:21:19 PM »
Quote
It has to go somewhere.  If not your state and not anyone else's, where does it go?

On a rocket ship pointed at the sun? Or at least fired into deep space.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2010, 10:39:44 PM »
On a rocket ship pointed at the sun? Or at least fired into deep space.

Until the first rocket full of nuclear waste explodes in the atmosphere and blankets half the globe.

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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2010, 10:50:36 PM »
Having been to the Nevada Test Site many times, and having also been a Radiation Safety Officer, and also studied up on those transportation casks, to me it's much ado about nothing.  The amount of high-level radioactive waste produced pales in comparison to the amount of crap we dump into the atmosphere via coal-fired power plants, and that doesn't even take into account the environmental damage created digging the fossil fuel up. 
Yep. Burning coal releases more radiation than any other form of power generation.

If it came to a vote, I'd vote in favor of storing the nuke waste in my home state.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2010, 11:13:18 PM »
Until the first rocket full of nuclear waste explodes in the atmosphere and blankets half the globe.

I had to laugh, too.

Yep.  Those containers are nigh indestructible, not indestructible.

Slinging them into space on top of tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds of rocket fuel is one of the few deliberate acts that might get one to rupture, if it goes kerblooey on the pad or in flight through the atmo.
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Re: Obama Pushes Nuclear Energy
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 11:29:54 PM »
1.  Obama has moved back into campaign mode and is trying to move to the center a little since his lefty slant didn't work.

2.  He realizes that his cap and trade bill hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of passing without trying to compromise a little.  IMO, he is obviously not trying to compromise very hard.
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