Author Topic: Please Fill Out This Form If Planning To Overthrow The .GOV, If You Live In SC.  (Read 3721 times)

TechMan

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http://www.loweringthebar.net/2010/02/please-fill-out-this-form-if-planning-to-overthrow-our-government-thank-you.html

Please Fill Out This Form If Planning to Overthrow the Government. Thank You.

Oh, paranoid Americans obsessively concerned with security issues. . . . Will your font of genius-level freedom-raping ideas ever run dry?

In South Carolina, anyone engaged in "subversive activities" must now register with the Secretary of State.  Failure to comply with the Subversive Activities Registration Act passed last year and now in full and glorious effect [see below] subjects the non-registering subversive to penalties up to and including a $25,000 fine and/or ten years of imprisonment.

Actually, I take that back.  You don't actually have to be engaged in subversive activities.  You only have to be a member of some group in which at least one other person is at least thinking about subversive activities.  Here's how it works:

    * The law applies to "every member of a subversive organization, or an organization subject to foreign control . . . and every person who advocates, teaches, advises or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States, of this State or of any political subdivision thereof by force or violence or other unlawful means, who resides, transacts any business or attempts to influence political action in this State . . . ."  S.C. Code sec. 23-29-60.

    * A "subversive organization" is any organization "composed of two or more persons [so, organizations of one person are off the hook] which directly or indirectly advocates, advises, teaches or practices the duty, necessity or propriety of controlling, conducting, seizing or overthrowing the government of the United States, of this State or of any political subdivision thereof by force or violence or other unlawful means."  S.C. Code sec. 23-29-20(1).

    * An organization is "subject to foreign control" if it accepts money "or support of any kind directly or indirectly from, or is affiliated directly or indirectly with," any foreign government, agency, political party or "international political organization," or if any of its policies are "determined by or at the suggestion of, or in collaboration with," any of those foreign things.

This Guy Better Have Filled Out That FormGot it?  So, let's say you are a member of the Libertarian Party, and so is this guy, who showed up at an Obama rally with a gun and a sign saying it's time to "water the tree of liberty [with the blood of tyrants].  Have there been any Libertarian Party policy statements or other comments that could conceivably be read to support this doofus?  Are you sure?  Because if so, libertarians in South Carolina apparently have to register, and provide the Secretary of State "all information which he may request, on the forms and at the times he may prescribe."  S.C. Code sec. 23-29-70.  Failing to do so -- not actually trying to overthrow the government, but failing to fill out the form -- could get you ten years in jail.  (Same for you, Republicans.)

Also, I think the Democratic Party has probably worked on policies "in collaboration with" a "international political organization" -- let's say, global warming and the United Nations? -- so that might make it an "organization subject to foreign control" under section 23-29-20(2)(b).  I frankly don't know a lot about ACORN, but somebody would probably argue it "indirectly advocates" taking power by "other unlawful means."  So, you too.

Let's just make this easier -- everybody in the United States must give the South Carolina Secretary of State all information which he may request from you at the times he may prescribe.  Okay?  Great.  Then we will be safe.  (Don't forget your $5 filing fee, which will help out the state budget by bringing in $1,500,000,000 this year.)

I guess somebody did see a problem down the road with this, because section 23-29-30 expressly provides that "[n]othing in this chapter shall be construed to authorize, require or establish censorship or to limit in any way or infringe upon freedom of the press or of speech as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States and no regulation shall be promulgated hereunder having that effect."  Well, that's a relief -- although they left out the right to assemble.  Oops!

Maybe somebody else has pointed this out already, but could it be more ironic that this law was enacted by the legislature of South Carolina, the first state to secede from the Union and the one that actually opened hostilities?  It's lucky the law is written in the present tense, because otherwise it would be tempting to argue (and, okay, I previously did argue, but am backing down somewhat) that the South Carolina legislature itself could qualify as a "subversive organization" under its own law.  To be on the safe side, South Carolina legislature, you may want to fill out this form of yours and return it to yourself immediately along with your $5 filing fee.

[Correction: it appears that this law is not new, but rather dates back many years, probably to the Red Scare of the 1950s.  I think the rest of the post is otherwise accurate, because the law is still dumb and the state legislature has resisted a number of attempts to repeal it.  More on that later.]

Link: South Carolina Subversive Agent Form

February 09, 2010 in Brilliant Arguments, Constitutional Law, Current Affairs, Homeland Insecurity, Legislatures at Work | Permalink


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The author does note that this is an older law apparently from the 1950s, but seriously who is actually going to fill out this form and register.  I am not saying overthrow the .gov.  I really wonder what goes through lawmakers minds when they pass something like this.

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KD5NRH

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    * An organization is "subject to foreign control" if it accepts money "or support of any kind directly or indirectly from, or is affiliated directly or indirectly with," any foreign government, agency, political party or "international political organization," or if any of its policies are "determined by or at the suggestion of, or in collaboration with," any of those foreign things.

So all Catholics have to register?


Tallpine

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Fifth amendment  ???
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

lupinus

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I wonder if it would be fun to get as many people to register as humanly possible
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

209

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I read about the law on some blog I was viewing.  At first, I laughed.  Then I started thinking dark thoughts and I quickly came up with a few ways to use such a law in various twisted ways.  Like so many laws passed these days, the basic principle may be sound (having a way to charge a terrorist with a crime), but than the law gets twisted or is enhanced later and it becomes a real problem.  Suddenly people that aren't terrorists in any sense of the word are getting charged with it.

I think it was on the same blog that I saw a post about OK passed some law that prohibits people from using extraordinary means to secure their house from break-ins.  No reinforcing windows and doors and what-have-you. I guess it's a response to counter what some druggies do in drug houses.  But the law  "makes it a crime to “fortify” a citizen’s home against possible entry by law enforcement.  So now if you're a security minded person that does a good job securing your home and at some point, you come up on the radar for police entry, they can add that charge to your other ones.

The law states that to “fortify an access point” means to willfully construct, install, position, use or hold any material or device designed to injure a person upon entry or to strengthen, defend, restrict or obstruct any door, window or other opening into a dwelling, structure, building or other place to any extent beyond the security provided by a commercial alarm system, lock or deadbolt, or a combination of alarm, lock or deadbolt.

The law carries punishment of imprisonment of not more than five years or by a fine up to $10,000 or by both.


Come on here folks, I went to the extreme measures of installing not one but two steel security cross beams on my basement door.  You may get into the "doghouse" hatchway, but you'll be working up a sweat break down the door(which I made and it's quite an obstacle in itself).  But with the new law in OK, that would be illegal... if the cops came for whatever reason they had.  And there seems to be a lot of weird reasons being used when a person becomes cross-threaded with the police.

The feds and various states are passing some bad stuff that can easily be used the wrong way.  Kind of like some of the things in the Patriot Act.  If you trust your government, you probably didn't have any overwhelming issues with it as you aren't a terrorist.  But, those in charge of the government change and we may suddenly find they are untrustworthy folks.  The problem is that they may end up using that law we initially felt comfortable with in a manner we suddenly find offensive.  
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 03:23:20 PM by 209 »

Jocassee

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Former SC resident...no idea HOW in the hades this got passed. But I imagine it will be gone in short order. The ironical bit is...about half the Republicans in SC imagine themselves to be subversives.  :lol:
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Waitone

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The ironical bit is...about half the Republicans in SC imagine themselves to be subversives.
True statement.
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Perd Hapley

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Former SC resident...no idea HOW in the hades this got passed. But I imagine it will be gone in short order. The ironical bit is...about half the Republicans in SC imagine themselves to be subversives.  :lol:

Well, it is the home of secession and nullification.  Calhoun lives!
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KD5NRH

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But I imagine it will be gone in short order.

Probably the first time they try to go after a member of certain "organizations subject to foreign control."  As I mentioned above, that would include the Catholic church, which is directly affiliated with the government of Vatican City, and people like my wife who has had memberships in various countries' language organizations, which, since her other language is French, tend to at least get some funding from those countries' governments.

Every time I think the ACLU is useless, some bunch of idiots will pass a law that we can just point the hippies at and sit back.


Jocassee

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Every time I think the ACLU is useless, some bunch of idiots will pass a law that we can just point the hippies at and sit back.



Exactly...as annoying as they can be sometimes, day may come when we need their *ahem* unique talents. Namely being a legal pain in the hassle.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

sanglant

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pain in the hasselhoff? sounds excruciating :O



 =D

MicroBalrog

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Well, it is the home of secession and nullification.  Calhoun lives!

Wouldn't that be Virginia ;)
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Perd Hapley

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Why Virginia? 

South Carolina was first to secede, no?  Also, it was the home of John C. Calhoun, who proposed Southern secession as a possible solution to sectional conflicts well before the Civil War.  He is also seen as the key player in the Nullification Crisis.

So, yeah, I do find some historical precedent for South Carolingians to identify with "subversive" politics.   =) 
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Tallpine

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Why Virginia? 

South Carolina was first to secede, no?  Also, it was the home of John C. Calhoun, who proposed Southern secession as a possible solution to sectional conflicts well before the Civil War.  He is also seen as the key player in the Nullification Crisis.

So, yeah, I do find some historical precedent for South Carolingians to identify with "subversive" politics.   =) 

Those stubborn and intractable Scots, you know  :lol:
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Jocassee

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Why Virginia? 

South Carolina was first to secede, no?  Also, it was the home of John C. Calhoun, who proposed Southern secession as a possible solution to sectional conflicts well before the Civil War.  He is also seen as the key player in the Nullification Crisis.

So, yeah, I do find some historical precedent for South Carolingians to identify with "subversive" politics.   =) 

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During the Nullification Crisis, President Jackson said in a famous toast, "Our federal Union—it must and shall be preserved." In Vice President Calhoun's toast, he replied, "The Union; next to our liberty most dear!"

Wiki recounts this incident but they got it backwards.

I would say the vast majority of white Carolinians would echo this statement today. Fortunately for the federal government the weight of the average South Carolinian is twice what it was in 1860.
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.