Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: brimic on June 07, 2018, 12:04:28 PM
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My mid-to-late 90s Simplicity tractor (16hp broadmoor), briggs Vanguard engine) died the other day.
I did some trouble shooting and found the gas flow was being shut off completely at the float needle. Removed needle, found rubber tip to be cracked/broken, all other passages/jets seem to be clear.
I figured that I'd just order up a new carb, as most lawn tractor carbs are <$30, just in case I narf the float or float pin ears during re-assembly.
I spent hours looking online, and have determined that the carburator that I have is made of unobtanium. I can't find one anywhere nor find a replacement of the same type. The only marking on the carb is 'ASSAM'
Which leads me to float needles. There seems to be about 3 different types common to Briggs carburators... the one I have is 3 piece- body, spring, plunger...
If I order the right 'style' of needle valve, what are the odds that it will work? Are these things common across various makes of carburators?
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What model and serial number on the Briggs engine? Most equipment manufacturers using Briggs products buy the engines as a running assembly, including the carb. Search by engine model/serial rather than the tractor model number.
Brad
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The model is a 303777. I did a little further digging and found the carb part number to be 303777-1166-E1
I found a site with replacement parts, but the parts look to be prohibitively expensive...
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/manufacturer/briggs-stratton/200000-399999-series/303700-to-303799/303777-1166-e1/carburetor-fuel-supply-kit-carburetor-overhaul
YHGTBSM
I found the exact carb for sale... I had better have a small chunk of gold inside.
https://www.amazon.com/B1808725-808725-Stratton-Carburetor-Several/dp/B01AAQJ3I8/ref=pd_sbs_86_6?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01AAQJ3I8&pd_rd_r=5677079a-6a71-11e8-8d7d-0b77988e6d4b&pd_rd_w=3WMOX&pd_rd_wg=0OCkj&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=5825442648805390339&pf_rd_r=HAYZDEMK7DAK9XYEH8NM&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=HAYZDEMK7DAK9XYEH8NM
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That appears to be about a $220 carb pretty much no matter how you cut it. I'd bet it was only used on a (relatively) small number of engines so there isn't as much of an economy of scale in the aftermarket.
The float needle is only $24 at Jacks Small Engine, so if you think that's really the only bad part it's probably worth a gamble.
For $200 it better have been running perfectly before the carb failed.
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303777-1166-E1 is the full engine model number (the 1166-E1 is a series designator). The carb sub-assembly seems to be a parts-only thing from Briggs. I'm searching some of my resources to see if a complete replacement is available.
*edit to add* Looks like a carburator assembly is part number 807639. It's discontinued but there will be a replacement part number somewhere. Searching, please stand by...
*edit again to add* DAAAAAAAAAMMMMNNNNN!!! Carbs are still available but there isn't a low-cost aftermarket replacement I can find. Looks like you're either stuck rebuilding your carb or buying one new. Like dogmush said, around $225 no matter how it shakes out.
Brad
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Maybe time for an upgrade? =)
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdyersblowers.com%2Fimages%2Fcarbkit-nickel-6.jpg&hash=222416d138a07891491ba86f3ca492287b93cf32)
bob
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None of you ass clowns is suggesting det cord?
I'm sad at what this place has become.
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Yeah, I'm agreeing with limited run engine/carb/model... for the absurd pricing.
I'll just order a new valve, o-ring, and carb-intake gasket and see if that gets me to where I want to be...
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I ran into a similar problem on a 10.5hp B&S brush cutter engine. I rebuilt the carb and it ran for 5 minutes before puking itself again. I think that around that time Briggs was changing carbs every 8 hour shift or every 2 weeks or something. There are about a bazillion variations.
I gave up and it's stuck in the back of the barn somewhere. I have another similar engine on my 28ton log splitter but so far no problems with it. I have some ancient small engines that are still running strong. An old made in USA troybuilt tiller and a chipper/shredder.
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I hope your carb repair works. If not, and you intend to keep the machine, I'd suggest looking into a new engine if your only other option is a $225+ carburetor. The Simplicity website lists its lowest-end Broadmoor at $3,699, and your current engine is 20-ish years old.
One nice thing about most tractor and zero-turn mowers is that there is a lot of flexibility with engine replacement; they don't require the precision fit of a car engine, and are far easier to install. At worst, you're looking at perhaps a different size drive belt and modifying a wire harness.
FYI, I have a lot of experience with this. I've been in the professional lawn service industry for 22 years, and just yesterday installed a brand new Briggs engine on my mower, which had a Generac one before (which detonated last Wednesday).
Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
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I ran into a similar problem on a 10.5hp B&S brush cutter engine. I rebuilt the carb and it ran for 5 minutes before puking itself again. I think that around that time Briggs was changing carbs every 8 hour shift or every 2 weeks or something. There are about a bazillion variations.
I gave up and it's stuck in the back of the barn somewhere. I have another similar engine on my 28ton log splitter but so far no problems with it. I have some ancient small engines that are still running strong. An old made in USA troybuilt tiller and a chipper/shredder.
As much as people knock Harleys...
A few years back, I had a bad occasion of getting some very bad gasoline in one of my bikes filling up in Les Getteaux. Completely trashed the carburator, as in corroded the inside to the point where salvaging it was pointless.
It took me about 10 minutes to find the exact carburator, unused (the guy said he took it off his '99 bike and swapped on an S&S carb before the bike left the dealership), for $100. There is something to be said about using the same parts for production runs spanning years, if not decades.
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I hope your carb repair works. If not, and you intend to keep the machine, I'd suggest looking into a new engine if your only other option is a $225+ carburetor. The Simplicity website lists its lowest-end Broadmoor at $3,699, and your current engine is 20-ish years old.
One nice thing about most tractor and zero-turn mowers is that there is a lot of flexibility with engine replacement; they don't require the precision fit of a car engine, and are far easier to install. At worst, you're looking at perhaps a different size drive belt and modifying a wire harness.
FYI, I have a lot of experience with this. I've been in the professional lawn service industry for 22 years, and just yesterday installed a brand new Briggs engine on my mower, which had a Generac one before (which detonated last Wednesday).
Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
I actually looked at that, around $1200 for a new engine. Current engine has a lot of hours on it, but was still going strong.
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I actually looked at that, around $1200 for a new engine. Current engine has a lot of hours on it, but was still going strong.
I assume this is a vertical driveshaft engine. Let me see what I can dig up for you. Stay tuned.
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what about the Predator engines from Harbor Freight? I think they have a 16-ish HP vertical shaft engine.
Or going a totally different direction, what about a different carburetor? Can you find something else with the same size manifold flange and adapt it?
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what about the Predator engines from Harbor Freight? I think they have a 16-ish HP vertical shaft engine.
Or going a totally different direction, what about a different carburetor? Can you find something else with the same size manifold flange and adapt it?
I would consider a HF engine, given his circumstance, if a suitable one is available.
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I would consider a HF engine, given his circumstance, if a suitable one is available.
https://www.harborfreight.com/708cc-22-hp-v-twin-riding-mower-engine-epa-62879.html
$730, and probably some fabbing to fit. I'd at least try the carb parts
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https://www.harborfreight.com/708cc-22-hp-v-twin-riding-mower-engine-epa-62879.html
$730, and probably some fabbing to fit. I'd at least try the carb parts
That's one hell of a good option. Given my experience, the only issue may be location of mounting holes. They are usually universal (I have never had to drill new ones). He will need to pull the drive pulley off the shaft of the old engine and press it onto the new one. After that, primary + wire to the starter, solenoid wire, connect the fuel line, choke and throttle cables, and BAM....new mower.
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I stopped at local implement service place. They confirmed that carburetor would be very expensive, if they could even get one. They happened to have one needle in stock, but none of the other parts. $30 for the needle, I got home ate some supper, and carefullyput everything back together. Started right up, and no leaks thus far.
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Nice job! =)
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The HF engines are a good deal. Decent quality really but the nice thing is the stores are really good about returns. Use it kill it, probably under warranty.
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I rebuilt the carb for my logsplitter last fall. I had loaned it to my brother a few months before. When I tried to start it I determined that the fuel tan had more water than gas in it. ??? The carb looked OK after cleaning so I put a kit in it. Cleaned out the tank and fuel lines and fired it up. Ran great for about an hour and died. I figured it was out of gas. topped up the tank and when I pulled on the starter rope I found out the engine was seized solid as a rock. Port mortem found the oil was more gasoline than oil. either something failed in the carb kitor I screwed something up but somehow the carb had flowed eunough as into the crankcase to dilute the oil enough to seize it up.