Ranger School to Accept Females

[BridgeRunner]

Ok, so we're not rapists.

I know.  But isn't it awesome how you managed to be offended by that?

We just LOVE to dominate

Um. Yeah.  Sorry dude, what's good for the goose and all that.  We're gonna talk about sexually-based traits, dominance is just about the key male trait.

Your man hate is mind boggling

Only to those with easily boggled minds

You didn't get the chance to "try" to join the infantry because the infantry still is closed to women.

Was.  When did this hit?  This week?  

And you're talking of the American military.  I've got a former classmate in the IDF.

This thread is not about women joining or not joining the military.

Oh, ok.  So RKL's post that I responded to was about ranger or infantry school?

Didn't know they had those in the Navy.  Live and learn.

Leather goods?
Oh look, another "look at me" comment.

Hey, it's not like I posted pics  

Wait a sec.  I thought you were done with this thread? Wtf, man!

[Fitz]

I've already discussed (and you've already ignored) the cultural differences. your friend in the IDF is irrelevant.

And yes, the 11 series MOS is still closed to women here in the US Army. So, again, your statement about "i couldn't try because blah blah blah" is also irrelevant.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I have been TOLD by senior folks at military bases to "watch how I talk around the females"

But sir, I thought I was supposed to treat em the same!

Guess not.


Spend some time at a gender integrated TRADOC post and you will see why we have a problem. For every 10 solid, outstanding female soldiers, there's another 10 that are skating by because THEY. ARE. ALLOWED. TO.

Say what you will about male shitbags, but they are fewer and farther between in the infantry, and we NEED to keep it that way.

I think just elimanating the skaters and shitbags of both gender would be more effective. Of course, that falls into "easier said them done".

[Fitz]

I think just elimanating the skaters and shitbags of both gender would be more effective. Of course, that falls into "easier said them done".

Well, we were working on it. The army recently tightened a lot of the discipline standards, and the PT standards are now quicker to get you kicked out if you don't meet em.

One step forward, two steps back I guess.


But what do I know. i'm a misogynist who imagined the higher failure rates, discipline problems, and abysmal performance in mixed gender IET units.

[BridgeRunner]

I've already discussed (and you've already ignored) the cultural differences. your friend in the IDF is irrelevant.

To my options for military service?  Not really.  

I promise, you actually don't define my reality.  No matter how pissed you get at your computer.  

And yes, the 11 series MOS is still closed to women here in the US Army.

This week.  

So, again, your statement about "i couldn't try because blah blah blah" is also irrelevant.

Only to the irrational mind.  My sex still had jack *expletive deleted*it to do with my not enlisting.  

[Fitz]

Wow. this is just... RICH

Reading the article again... and a linked page. These gems:

Each class in the remainder of FY 13 will receive five to eight women, and the treatment, mentoring, nurturing and ultimate success of those female candidates will be intensively managed by the Chief of Staff and the Sergeant Major of the Army, not to mention civilian appointees.

How many male ranger trainees get this level of attention from the Office of the Chief of Staff?

The RTB has not been directed that all female candidates must pass regardless of performance, and Ranger Instructors will retain a limited ability to dismiss an individual underperforming woman from the course, as long as "enough" women remain to please the higher-ups. But they will have to justify every dismissal to the highest levels of command, who have made their intention clear.

Yeah.... this is great.

Hooray equality

I believe one of my original posts on the subject said that "Done right, women in combat arms could work, but the military will drop standards"

here it comes.


Those of you who haven't served, as much of an ahole as I may be for saying this, do not quite comprehend just what happens when standards drop.

I have seen it first hand, it ain't pretty.

[Fitz]

To my options for military service?  Not really.  

I promise, you actually don't define my reality.  No matter how pissed you get at your computer.  

This week.  

Only to the irrational mind.  My sex still had jack *expletive deleted* to do with my not enlisting.  

I never said your sex had anything to do with it. I said it was irrelevant, because again, I'm not debating the merits of women in the military. As the 11 series MOS is still closed to you, your reasons for not joining are irrelevant to the discussion.

And, since this thread is about women attending the US army ranger school, again, your friend is irrelevant to the discussion.

Where exactly did I say that anything about your gender had to do with you not enlisting?

Irrational? I still can't even figure out what the *expletive deleted*ck you're talking about. Your arguments seem to have no connection to anything I've discussed, you continue to quote me and then either fail to address the quoted point, or go off on a tangent on a point I haven't even debated.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Wow. this is just... RICH

Reading the article again... and a linked page. These gems:

How many male ranger trainees get this level of attention from the Office of the Chief of Staff?


Yeah.... this is great.

Hooray equality

See, THIS is the kind of BS that dissuaded me from joining back when it would have worked. I do not, now or ever, understand how underpreforming and getting special consideriations qualifing a women to pass is NOT the sexist thing to do. 

[Fitz]

See, THIS is the kind of BS that dissuaded me from joining back when it would have worked. I do not, now or ever, understand how underpreforming and getting special consideriations qualifing a women to pass is NOT the sexist thing to do. 

You know what's funny, the service I see the LEAST of this kind of *expletive deleted*it from (although admittedly from an outsiders perspective as I only work with them peripherally) is the Coast Guard.

[BridgeRunner]

I still can't even figure out what the *expletive deleted* you're talking about.

No *expletive deleted*, sherlock.  There's an innate difference between us that can cause that.  

Your arguments seem to have no connection to anything I've discussed

Thoughts.  I haz them.  

We're not all sycophants.

I'm not here to say yea or nay to your thoughts.  I'm kind of a free agent here.  

you continue to quote me and then either fail to address the quoted point, or go off on a tangent on a point I haven't even debated.

Zomg! Tangents!  On APS!  How the *expletive deleted* could that happen?

[Fitz]

No *expletive deleted*, sherlock.  There an innate difference between us that can cause that.  

Thoughts.  I haz them.  

We're not all sycophants.

I'm not here to say yea or nay to your thoughts.  I'm kind of a free agent here.  

Zomg! Tangents!  On APS!  How the *expletive deleted* could that happen?

I have no problem with tangents, but you take it to an absurd degree.

And quoting folks, then going onto a tangent, makes it look like you're arguing with no one in particular.

[BridgeRunner]

makes it look like you're arguing with no one in particular.

Bingo!

I'm so glad you've noticed.

[Fitz]

Bingo!

I'm so glad you've noticed.

OK, so if you want to go off on a tangent, why quote people then respond inappropriately to their posts?

And why all the unnecessary snark?


I don't know what's happened to you BW, but you've become unpleasant to talk to.

I used to quite enjoy your posts, and discussions with you.

Whatever. Proceed.

[Boomhauer]

This thread has become a big ball of WTF!?...

[BlueStarLizzard]

You know what's funny, the service I see the LEAST of this kind of *expletive deleted* from (although admittedly from an outsiders perspective as I only work with them peripherally) is the Coast Guard.

I think (and mind, I live in a landlocked area) they get less public exposure, thus less starry eyed idiots in their ranks. People who want to work and do the damn job are more commen in those feilds then the attention seekers and slobs.

[BlueStarLizzard]

This thread has become a big ball of WTF!?...

It's a gender debate. How on earth could you think it wouldn't? 

[Fitz]

Found this also...

It appears, at least, that the Marine Corps is doing it RIGHT:

However, it could also be that the new, UNIVERSAL standard will be lower than the current. Time will tell.

Additionally, new functional fitness tests are being developed to help Marine Corps leaders determine how women and men perform in, and cope with, various combat tasks. The goal is to establish “gender-neutral” physical fitness standards. Details are scant, but the Marine Corps’ Training and Education Command is looking to purchase a variety of new equipment specifically for these tests, suggesting the tasks associated with them will closely mimic combat-essential duties such as operating and moving heavy weaponry, and carrying casualties from the battlefield.
The Marine Corps defines gender-neutral physical standards as being identical for men and women, rather than weighted — or “gender-normed” — like those applied in the service’s annual Physical Fitness Test. During the PFT, women can earn a minimum or maximum score with fewer repetitions and a slower run times than their male counterparts.
This suggests that women wanting to serve in ground combat units will be given the shot to do so only if they can keep pace with their male counterparts. Standards would likely evaluate Marines not as women and men, but simply as infantrymen, tank crewmen or artillerymen, for example.

[BridgeRunner]

OK, so if you want to go off on a tangent, why quote people then respond inappropriately to their posts?

A tangent has to be tangential to something, doesn't it?  I mean, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be a tangent.  It would be a big ball of wtf.  

And why all the unnecessary snark?

Because I think it's funny that you've gone completely ape-*expletive deleted* about stuff I've said that you largely agree with, simply because I've used slightly different words than you.  And because you haven't bothered to read it before throwing a temper tantrum about your best guess at what it might have said.

I don't know what's happened to you BW, but you've become unpleasant to talk to.

Well, you did indicate something along the lines of me being a severely defective human being, possibly approaching psych-bitch levels.  
That can put a damper on conversational pleasantness.  

Not that I didn't try.  I did assure you explicitly that I wasn't actually saying any of the ZOMG FEMINAZI stuff I didn't actually say.

I used to quite enjoy your posts, and discussions with you.

Ah.  So then it's probably too bad you've decided to bad-mouth me repeatedly on fb and on here.  If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath for any delightful conversation in the near future.
Unless, of course, you wanted to apologize or something crazy like that.

Whatever. Proceed.

So, are you actually done?  Cause that's at least the second time you've washed your hands of this thread.  Possibly the third.  I lost track.

[Fitz]

A tangent has to be tangential to something, doesn't it?  I mean, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be a tangent.  It would be a big ball of wtf.  

Because I think it's funny that you've gone completely ape-*expletive deleted* about stuff I've said that you largely agree with, simply because I've used slightly different words than you.

Well, you did indicate something along the lines of me being a severely defective human being, possibly approaching psych-bitch levels.  
That can put a damper on conversational pleasantness.  

Not that I didn't try.  I did assure you explicitly that I wasn't actually saying any of the ZOMG FEMINAZI stuff I didn't actually say.

Ah.  So then it's probably too bad you've decided to bad-mouth me repeatedly on fb and on here.  If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath for any delightful conversation in the near future.
Unless, of course, you wanted to apologize or something crazy like that.

So, are you actually done?  Cause that's at least the second time you've washed your hands of this thread.  Possibly the third.  I lost track.
[/quote

]

Saying "proceed" isn't washing hands. But then again, I didn't expect you to read my posts, you haven't done so thus far.

Apologize? My effort to establish a bit of understanding with you was met by idiocy. You REALLY should re read what I've posted.

In addition, if you're referring to the last bout of verbal sparring we did a while back, i believe I attempted to apologize. I can't recall, and really don't even remember which thread it was in.

Slightly different words? ...

LOL.


K

[TommyGunn]

To put it another way........................

[BlueStarLizzard]

Found this also...

It appears, at least, that the Marine Corps is doing it RIGHT:

However, it could also be that the new, UNIVERSAL standard will be lower than the current. Time will tell.

I always knew the Marines where the cool guys.  

[BlueStarLizzard]

To put it another way........................

You forgot a dead horse for the kicking...

[BridgeRunner]

But then again, I didn't expect you to read my posts, you haven't done so thus far.

Not disagreeing with them is not exactly the same thing as not reading them.

Apologize? My effort to establish a bit of understanding with you was met by idiocy.

ROTFLMAO.  To which effort do you allude, exactly?

In addition, if you're referring to the last bout of verbal sparring we did a while back, i believe I attempted to apologize. I can't recall, and really don't even remember which thread it was in.

Does the phrase "once burned, twice shy" mean anything to you?  See, I don't actually hate men.  I don't actually even hate you.  But I've figured out that you have a spazz-out point set ludicrously low.  If I can't reasonably avoid hitting it, well, game on.  I'm not going to stop thinking because sumdood is gonna yell at me on the internet about stuff I haven't said.

[Fitz]

Not disagreeing with them is not exactly the same thing as not reading them.

ROTFLMAO.  To which effort do you allude, exactly?

Does the phrase "once burned, twice shy" mean anything to you?  See, I don't actually hate men.  I don't actually even hate you.  But I've figured out that you have a spazz-out point set ludicrously low.  If I can't reasonably avoid hitting, well, game on.  I'm not going to stop thinking because sumdood is gonna yell at me on the internet about stuff I haven't said.

Which effort? Well, for starters, the piece you quoted before you told me I was avoiding the argument.

My spazz out point isn't actually as low as you say it is. You, however, have a way of triggering it. Is that my problem or yours? Who knows? All i know is this: many, many threads you participate in all end up going the same direction, and it's irritating. I'm not the only one who thinks so, by the way (since we're going the high school route here, why not)

And, these things you didn't say... well, let's just say that at times you (likely deliberately) infer things that are unsaid.

[Ben]

This thread has become a big ball of WTF!?...

Yup.