Author Topic: .38-44  (Read 2974 times)

AZRedhawk44

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.38-44
« on: September 11, 2009, 01:18:20 PM »
Tell me about this cartridge.

I'm reading Stephen Hunter's Pale Horse Coming and I'm right near the end (won't ruin it for anyone).

At first, I was confusing this cartridge with the .357-44 Bain-Davis round.  Then I read about the characters sticking the cartridge into a .357 revolver.

Earl has a .357 revolver, but he chooses to load it up with .38-44's instead.

Why?  Why essentially a super-plus-p .38 instead of a .357?  158gr .357 loads from Hodgdon's site vary from 1100 to 1500fps, while the load data I can find for .38-44 at 156gr shows 1100 to 1300fps.  Since Earl was probably shooting lead and powder tech was low for both cartridges, I'd expect peak speeds for .357 in that day to be about 1300fps.

They're almost the same, but the .38-44 sounds to be much higher pressure than the .357.

Did the .38-44 have a better reputation in the 1950's as a gunfighter's round?  Perhaps the shorter case was better for extraction, and the +p designation hadn't been invented yet (even though +p pales in comparison to .38-44 performance)?  I'd think the case would stick to the chamber from such pressure.

It obviously got retired as a cartridge at some point... How long did it live in popularity in a gun world populated with .38+p and .357?
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mtnbkr

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 01:31:33 PM »
The 38-44 died when the 357mag became available.  There was no need for it and the risk of putting one in a Chief's Special was too high (the reason for the 357mag's elongated case). 

No clue why the character would use the 38-44 instead of mag ammo unless that's all he had.

Chris

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 01:42:56 PM »
The N-frame S&W was available in .38spl and that is what the .38-44s were meant to be shot in.  I saw one  of these in a gun shop one day.

After .357mag came out, the reason for being of the .38-44 was gone.


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bedlamite

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 01:46:30 PM »
Ballistics were equivalent to a 357 from a 38 spl case, but it wasn't quite dead when the 357 came out. IIRC, S&W still made about 20k guns in 38-44 after WW2. S&W gave all their guns model numbers in 1957, and the N frame 38-44 was a model 20.
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griz

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 02:36:20 PM »
If I remember correctly that story was set in the time frame when the 357 was still new.  Is that right?  If so, maybe it's just what he had at the time.

I say that because Hunter is unusually accurate with the firearms details of his books.
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Gewehr98

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 10:52:10 PM »
I would love to have an original N-Frame in .38-44. 
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Re: .38-44
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2009, 11:56:41 PM »
I would love to have an original N-Frame in .38-44. 

Came this || close to buying one for my dad a couple years back.  It wasn't original, as it had been reblued and had a funky soldered-on front sight.  It was appropriately discounted.

But, it was tight.

My idea was to hack the bbl down to 2 1/2" or 3", install a partridge pin-on front sight, high-polish it up and re-blue it at the factory.  Then, give it to my dad as a gift with several hundred rounds of target wadcutters and hot 173gr Kieth SWC hand loads.

By the time I scooped together enough dough, some rat bastidge bought it out from under me.

(My dad has diner-plate-sized hands and a snubby/short bbl N-frame would look like a regular guy shooting and old-school square butt Colt Detective special.)
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roo_ster

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Jim147

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 12:55:07 AM »
I would love to have an original N-Frame in .38-44. 
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mtnbkr

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 07:09:43 AM »
My turn to say "You're not the only one."

Me too.  If I got a rough one, I'd possibly send it to Bowen to be converted to a 45Colt, though I don't think I'd have the cash for the Fishpaw ivories.

Chris

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 09:41:09 AM »
I'd love a .38-44 too....and I wouldn't bother having it changed to another caliber. I'd just break out the reloading equipment and make some "special" Special loads for it....

....and mark them carefully to keep them out of my K-38...  :angel:
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mtnbkr

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 10:25:40 AM »
If I had a clapped out 38-44, this is what I'd like to do.  Doubt I could afford it though.

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Re: .38-44
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 04:38:23 PM »
.38-44 ammo was loaded into the 1950s, possibly the early 1960s. Last manufacturer I know of was Remington.

The .357 Magnum didn't instantly displace the .38-44 HD. 6,000 or so .357s were made prior to WW II ending production, most of them the registered magnum. They were VERY expensive for the time, and only individual officers here and there purchased them. Sportsmen purchased the lion's share by far.

No police force adopted the .357 wholesale until at least the 1960s, after introduction of the Combat Magnum (Model 19) and the Highway Patrolman (Model 28), and most police forces, major forces, NEVER adopted the .357 Magnum; they stuck with .38s and went with the +P once that designation came into existence as a standard around 1970.

Things like the Super Vel and other high performance loads available from specialty manufacturers bridged the gap between .38-44 end of production and the origin of the first factory +P loads.

The theory that the .38-44 died out because people were afraid someone would drop one into a Chief's Special doesn't hold water given that no one was particularly worried about the roughly 100,000 or so non-heat treated .38 K frames that were floating around in 1929-1930 when the .38-44 was introduced.

The boxes were clearly marked - don't use these in your K frame or similarly sized guns.

It's very likely that the heat treated cylinder on the Chief's Special would have handled the .38-44 a lot better than would have a circa 1910 K frame.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:41:51 PM by Mike Irwin »
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