McCain and "Gun Shows"

[seeker_two]

A lot has been said about McCain and closing the "gun show loophole". But has anyone got him to state what he considers a "gun show"? Would a "hunter's expo" or a "self-defense seminar" count in that loophole? What about a "gun show" that just displays firearms and sends potential buyers to their storefront?

Words mean specific things. Maybe we need to know what McCain means by his...... 

[MicroBalrog]

Same thing everybody else does:

Making sure ALL private transfers go through NICS.

[alan2]

A lot has been said about McCain and closing the "gun show loophole". But has anyone got him to state what he considers a "gun show"? Would a "hunter's expo" or a "self-defense seminar" count in that loophole? What about a "gun show" that just displays firearms and sends potential buyers to their storefront?

Words mean specific things. Maybe we need to know what McCain means by his...... 

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Based on the results of a couple of phone conversations I've had with the senator's office people, "the best of British luck to you sir" re getting the desired clarification.

As to the meanig of the term "gun show", I can only offer what it means to me, this being a collection of individuals, some licensed dealers, mostly licensees, some not, who are offering legal firearms, ammunition, parts and components as well as "other stuff", to interested parties.

[AZRedhawk44]

I interpret it also as a ban on paperless private transfers, and requiring NICS checks for all purchases between private parties.

ETA:  After some research, Colorado Amendment #22 from several years ago, endorsed by John McCain, defined a gun show as 3 or more people gathered around 1 or more guns.

You, your son and your brother in the living room discussing the sale of your deer rifle was technically a gun show according to this law.

While this is only one state's interpretation of closing the "gun show loophole," it is chilling that McCain endorses this tactic.  He would almost certainly endorse closing the "gun forum loophole," the "classified gun loophole," the "work bulletin board loophole" and any other way you let folks know you have a gun you want to sell.

[alan2]

So gentlemen, what we have here would appear to be the following.

Senator Obama has what might be a peculiar understanding of The Second Amendment, this from a guy who taught constitutional law, etc., etc.

Senator McCain, respecting what could be assumed from his comments re "closing the gun show loophole", might opt to outlaw three or more people sitting around, looking at a firearm, discussing same.

Senator Clinton, perhaps still a possible candidate would fit somewhere between the above mentioned, though she might be much worse than either regarding The Second Amendment and Civil Rights.

The really troubling part of all this is that respecting the most important elective office in the country, arguments to the contrary can enter here, the three persons above mentioned are the "best" that our political system can produce. Is it only me who shudders?

[AZRedhawk44]

The really troubling part of all this is that respecting the most important elective office in the country, arguments to the contrary can enter here, the three persons above mentioned are the "best" that our political system can produce. Is it only me who shudders?

That's because to the majority of the populations, guns just aren't the big important issues of the day.

Seems to be, that people want security nowadays.  That's why the three dominant candidates we have are all Statists of one color or another.

Paul's flash-in-the-pan popularity was due to his individualist streak and reverence for individual rights.  Which worked well, until he opened his mouth and calvin-coolidged his way out of the race entirely.

We're now engaged in the debate over increased domestic security (welfare, health care, social security) by proxy of government intervention, versus increased international security (terrorism, energy production) by proxy of government intervention.  There's nowhere for self-sufficient responsible people to proudly cast their vote, but our country has sunk so low now that self-sufficient responsible people make up such a small voting block that the major candidates don't care about us.

Hence, not even lip service to our issues.

[Tallpine]

A "gun show" would be any time you show your gun to another person  

[MicroBalrog]

I am not sure Paul's popularity was a flash in the pan.

We always knew around 10% of the population are libertarians to some extent. That's approximately the amount of votes he got. His failure was mostly on account of people being obsessed with foreign policy, and also many people being afraid to vote for an 'extreme' candidate.

If Paul's people are smart, they're going to form some form of long-term organisation based on their donor lists - like Goldwater's people did - and use it to organize future fundraising, donations, and activism of various kinds.

We'll see if they're smart.

[freakazoid]

ETA:  After some research, Colorado Amendment #22 from several years ago, endorsed by John McCain, defined a gun show as 3 or more people gathered around 1 or more guns.

So as long as everybody agrees to wait in line to look at one, so as not to break the 3 or more rule, we should be fine?

[Perd Hapley]

A "gun show" would be any time you show your gun to another person 

If you wanna bag a classy lady, you gotta get her two tickets to the gun show.   

[Silver Bullet]

the three persons above mentioned are the "best" that our political system can produce.

There were several far better candidates in the primaries.  The opportunities were there, but the voters chose poorly.  I don't blame the parties.

[MicroBalrog]

the three persons above mentioned are the "best" that our political system can produce.

There were several far better candidates in the primaries.  The opportunities were there, but the voters chose poorly.  I don't blame the parties.

Doesn't local party leadership (organizers, etc.) have a large influence on who wins the primaries?

[wmenorr67]

ETA:  After some research, Colorado Amendment #22 from several years ago, endorsed by John McCain, defined a gun show as 3 or more people gathered around 1 or more guns.

So anytime the military shoots would be considered a gun show.

[Silver Bullet]

Doesn't local party leadership (organizers, etc.) have a large influence on who wins the primaries?

Maybe; I dunno.

Ultimately, it is the voter's responsibility to be informed and make the right choice.

[seeker_two]

A "gun show" would be any time you show your gun to another person  

So much for the dating scene...... 

[Manedwolf]

I am not sure Paul's popularity was a flash in the pan.

We always knew around 10% of the population are libertarians to some extent. That's approximately the amount of votes he got. His failure was mostly on account of people being obsessed with foreign policy, and also many people being afraid to vote for an 'extreme' candidate.

If Paul's people are smart, they're going to form some form of long-term organisation based on their donor lists - like Goldwater's people did - and use it to organize future fundraising, donations, and activism of various kinds.

We'll see if they're smart.

No, they're not smart. Sorry, but a Ron Paul shirt, worn around here, makes people move away from the person as if they're the Unabomber.

Your brand is irrecoverably tainted by the kooks.

[coppertales]

If I was in the men's room taking care of business and someone saw my johnson, would that be a gun show?

[Manedwolf]

If I was in the men's room taking care of business and someone saw my johnson, would that be a gun show?

Only if it's the 30-06 semiauto one. In which case you could also auction it for $6000.

[Jamisjockey]

The basic intent is to do away with FTF transfers.  Thats what the grabbers want.

[seeker_two]

If I was in the men's room taking care of business and someone saw my johnson, would that be a gun show?

Only if it's the 30-06 semiauto one. In which case you could also auction it for $6000.

What about big-bore single-shots?........

[AZRedhawk44]

What about big-bore single-shots?........

Sure it wouldn't be more of a short action rimfire?

[Ex-MA Hole]

I view a gun show as an affair that you pay money to go to an organized location to look and, and possibly purchase, firearms.

That said, how many of these purchased guns have been used in crimes?  One?  Two?

Here's something that people seem to forget....criminals don't get their guns at gun shows....they buy them on the street.


Channel 5 out of Boston did a gun special a few months ago....they had two segments, one interviewing criminals who were behind bars, and how they got their guns...every single one of the said that they went up a block, or over a block, and knew which street corner to get a gun.

Most said they could get a gun for under $200.00.



The next segment covered the gun show loophole.  They went up to VT and kept offering a VT dealer money until he sold them the gun.  He finally said "I know I shouldn't do this, but the money is too good".  They spent (if my memory is correct) over $5,000.00 for a Glock.


So let's review....a common street crimal, which statistically is responsible for the overwhelming majority of gun crimes, can walk two blocks and spend $200, or drive his beater 4 hours up to Burlington, VT and spend over $5,000, then drive 4 hours back....

Which, my somewhat educated friends, is more of the threat?

The commentary in the paper the next morning was a bunch of people screaming about closing the loophole.

[Manedwolf]

Channel 5 out of Boston did a gun special a few months ago....they had two segments, one interviewing criminals who were behind bars, and how they got their guns...every single one of the said that they went up a block, or over a block, and knew which street corner to get a gun.

Most said they could get a gun for under $200.00.

The next segment covered the gun show loophole.  They went up to VT and kept offering a VT dealer money until he sold them the gun.  He finally said "I know I shouldn't do this, but the money is too good".  They spent (if my memory is correct) over $5,000.00 for a Glock.

And the reporter is not in federal prison for 10 years for buying a gun illegally, why?

[Perd Hapley]

If I was in the men's room taking care of business and someone saw my johnson, would that be a gun show?

Only if it's the 30-06 semiauto one. In which case you could also auction it for $6000.

Good one.   

[Silver Bullet]

No, they're not smart. Sorry, but a Ron Paul shirt, worn around here, makes people move away from the person as if they're the Unabomber.

Your brand is irrecoverably tainted by the kooks.

Not so much.  Almost every TFL/THR poll I saw (after Thompson dropped out) had Ron Paul winning big a majority percentage.  Since there is a large crossover of folks from TFL and especially THR here, my guess is that the majority of folks here favor Ron Paul over McCain/Obama/Barr.