...and again, and again... (Empire State Building Shooting)

[geronimotwo]

http://news.yahoo.com/nypd-empire-state-victims-hit-police-gunfire-180844387.html

aside from the initial victim (the shooters co-worker),  police caused the injuries to all nine of the bystanders caught in the crossfire.  i wonder if the gunman even fired or was attempting suicide by cop?

[Sindawe]

With one bullet in the shirt pocket 

+1

All the better to teach the current cretins in field how to keep the peace instead of just 'law enforcement'.

[Jamie B]

[zxcvbob]

That poster violates one the the 4 basic safety rules: Never give your gun to a monkey, no matter how responsible he seems.

(The same could be said of a NYPD cop, but I won't go there)

[lee n. field]

<pedant>That's not a monkey</pedant>

[zxcvbob]

<pedant>That's not a monkey</pedant>

That's fair.  Would you prefer ape or chimpanzee?  (I think it works better with chimpanzee)

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

That would be the officer on the (screen) right. The officer on the (screen) left, who was closer to the shooter, was firing two-handed. I'd estimate that he was maybe eight feet away when he started shooting, and probably six feet away when the shooter fell to the ground.

The second oficer, the one who moved toward screen right, increased his distance from the shooter but he never approached 40 feet away, or even 30 feet. Maybe 20 feet by the end of the active shooting.

Even with that, the two cops together managed to put 3 rounds in the shooter and 13 rounds ... elsewhere. That's an 18.75 percent hit rate, which is rather abysmal. The closer guy should have put all of however may round he fired into the target.

Even with that, the two cops together managed to put 3 rounds in the shooter and 13 rounds

presumes facts not in evidence and ignores some that are in evidence

[Monkeyleg]

presumes facts not in evidence and ignores some that are in evidence

Your objection is sustained. The court will now adjourn for sammiches.

[Jamie B]

Your objection is sustained. The court will now adjourn for sammiches.

Apple juice for me!

Also, I am calling judicial notice that the NYPD are a threat to themselves and the NY public.

I also request, Your Honor, that they henceforth be referred to as TGTCSS (The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight) from now on.

An alternate name would be TGTCFTOAWBH (The Gang That Couldn't Find Their Own Azzes With Both Hands).

I rest my case.

[Jamisjockey]

Even with that, the two cops together managed to put 3 rounds in the shooter and 13 rounds

presumes facts not in evidence and ignores some that are in evidence

Huh what?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Huh what?

at that point no one knows how many the crook caught.   and with fragments one round can wound many  especially when it hits a round concrete planter.  if this much swag was done on huff po folk here would be livid. but its different when "our side" does it. heck they might have only put one in bad guy.   we didn't know yet
.
as predictable much of early coverage was factually challenged

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html

[dogmush]

NYPD is reporting that Johnson had 10 bullet wounds.

It's been said that you don't rise to the occasion, you revert to you're training.  I think this shooting, along with pretty much every other, non swat, NYPD shooting shows that training to be so spare as to be dangerous to the public. NYC should consider both their training budgets and time as well as the tactics used.

[Jamie B]

NYPD is reporting that Johnson had 10 bullet wounds.

It's been said that you don't rise to the occasion, you revert to you're training.  I think this shooting, along with pretty much every other, non swat, NYPD shooting shows that training to be so spare as to be dangerous to the public. NYC should consider both their training budgets and time as well as the tactics used.

I would also submit that New Yorkers would be better served by having the responsibility of their own protection with widespread CCW approvals.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I would also submit that New Yorkers would be better served by having the responsibility of their own protection with widespread CCW approvals.

never lived in new york i see?

[dogmush]

never lived in new york i see?

An adult has the responsability for their safety.

A pistol is a very effective way to protect one's self from criminals.

These facts are not location dependant.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

An adult has the responsability for their safety.

A pistol is a very effective way to protect one's self from criminals.

These facts are not location dependant.

don't they get to make that choice themselves?

[Perd Hapley]

don't they get to make that choice themselves?

They don't have much choice about whether to pack heat, if that's what you mean.

[Fitz]

Additionally, that 38k number is simply pistol permits. For ownership. Bad journalism

[dogmush]

don't they get to make that choice themselves?

No statement in my post is a choice. They are both facts.

Adults DO have responsability for their own safety. They can choice whether, or how, to exercise that rsponsability but that doesn't change the fact of it's existance.

Pistols ARE an effective form of defense. You can choose (in some places) whether or not to use one, but it is an effective tool.

If you were asking whether new yorkers should be alowed tonchoose whether or not to carry, sure. But right now they can't.

[Jamie B]

never lived in new york i see?

No, you don't see. I was born there.

[Hawkmoon]

NYPD is reporting that Johnson had 10 bullet wounds.

The story keeps changing. First it was reported that three rounds from the cops hit Johnson, then it was seven ... now they've ratcheted it up to ten. Supposedly they only fired sixteen, so if they put ten into the bad guy they managed to wound nine bystanders with six shots. That's pretty miraculous, even allowing for ricocheting fragments.

Pretty soon I expect the story will be that all sixteen shots hit Johnson and all the bystanders were injured by other panicked people fleeing the shooting.

[RoadKingLarry]

10 wounds from bullets, that would of course include entry wounds, exit wounds and internal organs damaged by bullets, each counted as a separate wound.

[longeyes]

The amazing thing about police states is how lawless they are.

[Ben]

  I think this shooting, along with pretty much every other, non swat, NYPD shooting shows that training to be so spare as to be dangerous to the public. NYC should consider both their training budgets and time as well as the tactics used.

Possibly less investing by NYPD in UAVs and other "cool mil-tech" and more investment in the equivalent of "Defensive Pistol 1" training that many CCW holders take and that is apparently superior to NYPD basic pistol training.

[AZRedhawk44]

Possibly less investing by NYPD in UAVs and other "cool mil-tech" and more investment in the equivalent of "Defensive Pistol 1" training that many CCW holders take and that is apparently superior to NYPD basic pistol training.

Ayup.  Then, eliminate the NY1 and NY2 triggers (8 and 12 pounds) and stick with the stock trigger in the damned gun like the manufacturer intended... but only after each officer requalifies on new, higher standards. 

Can't have guys out there used to the NY2 trigger that have crappy gun handling skills and rest their finger on the trigger with 4 to 6 pounds of pressure pre-staging the thing, suddenly get a 5.5 pound trigger... without correcting their training.