...and again, and again... (Empire State Building Shooting)

[Blakenzy]

Possibly less investing by NYPD in UAVs and other "cool mil-tech" and more investment in the equivalent of "Defensive Pistol 1" training that many CCW holders take and that is apparently superior to NYPD basic pistol training.

But they are clearly too professional for basic pistol courses. "Defensive Pistol 1"..pfff 

Maybe if you called it "Advanced Tactical Course: Hit what you are shooting at- For LE only" it might generate interest

[Perd Hapley]

But they are clearly too professional for basic pistol courses. "Defensive Pistol 1"..pfff 

Maybe if you called it "Advanced Tactical Course: Hit what you are shooting at- For LE only" it might generate interest

I took that course, and it was lame. Until you train by big boy rules, you will never be a Tetragrammaton Cleric.

[Tallpine]

I dunno, but it seems at that close a range ("arms length" as described by the NYPD) it might have been better to charge the guy and take him down without shooting   

It ain't that I'm sorry that they killed the shooter, either 

[longeyes]

First do no harm.

[Jamisjockey]

First do no harm.

No no no.  First comes officer safety.  Get it right, subject.

[AZRedhawk44]

No no no.  First comes officer safety.  Get it right, subject.

La la la... I can't hear you over the 9-11 in the air...

[MechAg94]

Possibly less investing by NYPD in UAVs and other "cool mil-tech" and more investment in the equivalent of "Defensive Pistol 1" training that many CCW holders take and that is apparently superior to NYPD basic pistol training.

Hell, a lot of CHL shooters I see are doing good to hit the sillouette at 7 yards.  There are always some who rarely shoot and you might not want them shooting at more thana few feet. 

What the cops need is a little bit of good instruction and a lot of practice.  But, I agree with you in that they are spending a lot on high tech and need to put a little focus back on basic skills.

[roo_ster]

1. I hope I get as much consideration from the gov't as these officers are getting if I ever am in such a fight and third-parties are injured.

2. It is not just street cops that seem lacking in software, even as they get more hardware.  I've seen lotsa SWAT teams do things that indicate their level of training is not very high.

[Tallpine]

Did one of the officers get all the hits, and the other all the misses 

 

a lot of CHL shooters I see are doing good to hit the sillouette at 7 yards

I think even I could hit at five feet 

[Ben]

Hell, a lot of CHL shooters I see are doing good to hit the sillouette at 7 yards.  There are always some who rarely shoot and you might not want them shooting at more thana few feet. 

Oh I agree -- too many CHL holders get their license and never practice, or just shoot paper and never get off the "X". Even the most basic defensive pistol course is pretty eye opening if all you've ever done before is shoot paper, whether private citizen or police.

[zxcvbob]

Oh I agree -- too many CHL holders get their license and never practice, or just shoot paper and never get off the "X". Even the most basic defensive pistol course is pretty eye opening if all you've ever done before is shoot paper, whether private citizen or police.

Just adding a stupid timer while shooting at X's is enough to mess with your head.  Then try shooting metal plates with a timer.  [note to self: buy a shot timer next time I order gun stuff]

BTW, if all your shots go in the X ring, you're shooting too slow (not that I have that problem anyway).  I try to just shoot as fast as I can keep all the shots on a paper plate, and I need to practice this a lot more often (and at different distances, and with the wrong hand, etc.)

[Tallpine]

No sense wasting a perfectly good target by just shooting it in one place 

[MechAg94]

Oh I agree -- too many CHL holders get their license and never practice, or just shoot paper and never get off the "X". Even the most basic defensive pistol course is pretty eye opening if all you've ever done before is shoot paper, whether private citizen or police.

The problem is that I don't know if people buy cheap guns because they can't afford better guns or if they are getting the cheapest semi-auto they can to avoid the Texas revolver/semi-auto rules.  I have seen people show up with Hi Points or cheap guns right out of the box with no oil.  After shooting, you see targets that have so few holes, I can only assume the people are closing their eyes.  You could just point the gun without sights and pass the shooting test in Texas. 

[bedlamite]

  [note to self: buy a shot timer next time I order gun stuff]

Got am Android phone?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

 You could just point the gun without sights and pass the shooting test in Texas.  

Looks like at least one or two NYPD officers took and passed that same test

[zxcvbob]

Got am Android phone?

Nope.  I've got about the dumbest phone you can get that has a full keyboard, and a Virgin pay-by-the-minute voice/text only plan.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Nope.  I've got about the dumbest phone you can get that has a full keyboard, and a Virgin pay-by-the-minute voice/text only plan.

Your phone has a virgins voice. Cool

[Hawkmoon]

Did one of the officers get all the hits, and the other all the misses 

My guess on that would be yes.

After watching the video multiple times at full-screen, it appeared to me that the officer closer to the subject (the officer to the left on the screen) was a left-hander and fired two-handed in a fairly classic Weaver stance. The other officer was scooting away from the subject, moving rapidly and at a diagonal away from his target, and firing one-handed while moving rapidly away from his target.

What's your best guess as to which one was more likely to have "scored" multiple misses?

[Jamie B]

No no no.  First comes officer safety.  Get it right, subject.

I don't disagree with any cop wanting to get home safely.

It cannot be accomplished, though, by breaking the law, or at the expense of any citizen's rights.

It also cannot be used in defense of overzealous behavior or bad decisions.

[Blakenzy]

Well, it should not... but often times is.

[brimic]

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/08/one-of-nypds-finest-sounds-off-on.html

 

[AZRedhawk44]

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2012/08/one-of-nypds-finest-sounds-off-on.html

 

Basically, most cops over the last 30-40 years have been outsiders from the Gun Culture.  Or rather, the Gun Culture has foregone the law enforcement / peace officer profession, compelling departments to hire from outside the Gun Culture.

It is one of my greatest joys to put a handgun into a new shooter's hands, build basic safe handling skills, effective marksmanship, and competent draw and movement techniques... and then tell them if they practice this just a few times more until they get muscle memory, they'll be more proficient than 90% of the police in the entire world.  The look in their eyes is priceless.