Judge rules NYC Terry stops unconstitutional.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Ummmm.. I don't see Jewish listed on your reference.  Can you back up that claim?  Or explain the significance of it?

Marist poll was added

damn phone

[Levant]

My brother was a cop in NYC when the stop/frisk policy started under Rudy, He loved it.
All the cops loved it.

Basically, cops know what the neighborhood criminals look like.
You stop the saggy pants dude with the long T shirt on - most times he had a warrant or contraband.

If you didn't like it you could choose not to dress like a criminal.

But, yeah Unconstitutional, everyone knows it, but NY gun laws are unconstitutional too. You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals. Unless you had a ccw - but you couldn't because you need to be Trump to get a NYC ccw.

No, I would never support it under any circumstances.  Violating one protection of the Constitution as a response to the problems created by violating another makes no sense.  The solution to criminals on the street is to keep them in prison.  Law enforcement and government love the power that high crime rates give them so they will never put a stop to crime.  Crime is easily controlled by simply putting criminals in prison for long periods of time and allowing those of us not in prison to have the tools to defend ourselves.  That is the solution, Terry stops are not.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You would support stop and frisk if you lived there because it hampers the criminals.



winner winner chicken dinner

[Balog]

Is that really the only criteria we use for legality or morality of actions? "We think it'll hamper criminals"?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Is that really the only criteria we use for legality or morality of actions? "We think it'll hamper criminals"?

the only one?  no


but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood

its less academic for them

[Balog]

the only one?  no


but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood

its less academic for them

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
Speech in the House of Commons (18 November, 1783).

[dogmush]

the only one?  no


but i bet its high on the list for folks in a cut your way in shoot your way out hood

its less academic for them

You're adorable.  No.  I've lived in bad hoods.  I wouldn't have allowed it.  and the people that live in those hoods tend to not be fond of the local po-po either.  The folks that push, and allow, this kind of thing live in the good hood's near the cut your way in, shoot your way out hoods and no they can't *yet* build the walls polish ghetto's had.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

You're adorable.  No.  I've lived in bad hoods.  I wouldn't have allowed it.  and the people that live in those hoods tend to not be fond of the local po-po either.  The folks that push, and allow, this kind of thing live in the good hood's near the cut your way in, shoot your way out hoods and no they can't *yet* build the walls polish ghetto's had.

your experience differs from mine.  when the suburban folks complained about the roadblocks that kept em away from the stop and cop in trinidad nw dc the locals were not amused.  they had gotten tired of putting the kids to bed in the bathtub.  the only locals miffed were in "bidnez"

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

 murders are 50 percent below the level they were 12 years ago

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/stopfrisk_08-13.html

[dogmush]

your experience differs from mine.  when the suburban folks complained about the roadblocks that kept em away from the stop and cop in trinidad nw dc the locals were not amused.  they had gotten tired of putting the kids to bed in the bathtub.  the only locals miffed were in "bidnez"

Yeah, when the cops tried to do an increased patrol (much less a stop and frisk) in South St. Pete they started stoning cop cars.  the cops had to pull out before riots started (again) and leave us poor white college kids to fend for ourselves and/or run home to mommy.

My anecdote is as valid as yours.   

[dogmush]

murders are 50 percent below the level they were 12 years ago

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation/july-dec13/stopfrisk_08-13.html

Now I know I don't live in NYC, but I don't really give a *expletive deleted*it about the crime rate.  I can protect myself from criminals.Not so much the NYPD.

[Balog]

Murder rates have been declining nation wide.

But aside from that, I'm sure if we surgically installed GPS trackers inside everyone's body it'd be a lot easier to figure out who was around when murders were committed. If cops could barge into houses without warrants and torture confessions out of people they'd probably close a lot more cases. Heck, if we start executing people for petty theft and vandalism I bet we'd seriously cut down on street crime. If we had daily forced calisthenics tens of thousands of fatties wouldn't die from heart disease.

So f***ing what? The whole point of the Constitution's limits on .gov power is that there are some things that shouldn't be doneeven if they might prove effective.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2013/08/13/us/13reuters-usa-newark-police.html?ref=stopandfrisk&_r=0

some stop and frisk=good

some opinions
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/21/nyregion/stop-and-frisk-voices.html?ref=stopandfrisk



and there is this too
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/08/20/nyregion/new-yorkers-views-of-the-mayor-and-the-police.html?ref=nyregion

[dogmush]

<---------Didn't bother to click links.



You don't get it.  It doesn't matter if it works.  It doesn't matter if the entire damn city voted unanimously to do it.  The WHOLE FRIGGIN POINT of limits on .gov is to stop them from doing crap like this.  Of course it works.  That's why tyrants do it.  Hence needing to explicitly tell .gov that they can't.  NYPD needs to get told to FOAD.

[gunsmith]

Levant/dogmush/ccsd

you're all right.

There is a reason I do not live in NY, its run by ghetto politics.
The gun laws stink so bad that California is a gun nut paradise in comparison - its totally corrupt, the COTUS has no jurisdiction, the only law is money and power.

Of course its morally bankrupt and wrong and freaking stupid, its New York City.
Wiener ( carlos danger ) will probably be their next Mayor. New Yorkers can not have the conversation we are having here. They have no clue as to what COTUS is.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Interestingly the judge did not eliminate stop and frisk and newark is amongst several citys doing it with the blessing of the aclu et al

damn phone

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

On the plus side, NYC frisks are likely to be targeted at more worthy folks than TSA frisks.

Still, it seems like much of modern police practice is geared towards doing the opposite of Peel's Principles whenever possible.

[Ryan in Maine]

So apparently, during this years-in-the-making gun trafficking bust, they got audio of one of the suspects citing his fear of the stop/frisk procedures (which is the term I'll be using since it's been pointed out that, no, it is not a Terry stop!) as well as citing a couple other of Bloomberg's "common sense gun laws." Wonder what kind of deal he got for that... 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23761100

A wiretap showed the defendants feared becoming ensnared by the police department's stop-and-frisk policy, Mr Kelly said.

A federal judge this month ruled the aggressive street policing tactic unconstitutional and discriminatory. Mr Bloomberg's administration has appealed the ruling.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/19/gunrunners-smuggled-firearms-into-nyc-inside-luggage-on-discount-buses/

"The problem is that the gun laws passed now, so it's like now I can only buy a gun from a gun store every 30 days," Campbell complained in one conversation, according to an indictment. "So I had to, like, pay different people to keep buying different guns."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/justice/new-york-illegal-guns/index.html

"Year after year, guns flow into our city from states that don't have commonsense gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of criminals. North and South Carolina, for instance, still have weak laws that allow criminals and traffickers to easily buy guns," Bloomberg said.

The 254 guns sold included high-capacity assault weapons, a fully automatic machine gun, and guns that are commonly used in violent crimes. Those included pistols and guns that can hold magazines with 30 or more rounds, according to Bloomberg.

Derp!

[Tallpine]

So let me get this straight - if I carried a gun under a nice suit in NYC, I would have nothing to fear from the cops 

 

[RevDisk]

some stop and frisk=good

Sure. When they have a warrant from a judge or probable cause.

I'm quite sure that any police chief that implemented this where I live would be fired within a day. It would probably help crime stats if we threw all poor people into ovens. Doesn't mean it's the right or ethical thing to do.

With respect, CSD, nothing wrong with trolling the APS folks here, we need a court jester... I know you don't take the position of "anything good for the police is good for the country". If you do, you may want to take a few moments to reflect on that.

[Scout26]

How many of those 254 guns were used in crimes?  

And a full-auto?  I wonder how they got that.  

And finally, IIRC, the way they broke this case is that gunrunning knucklehead either posted videos on Yousetube or Facesbooks.


And finally, finally, are they going to prosecute Federally either him for lying on the 4473 (if he bought the guns he had use fake ID showing he was a resident of, IIRC NC), or he used straw purchasers and are he and they going to be prosecuted for violating Federal Gun laws?  Or is he simply going to to charged under either NYS and/or NYC gun laws.  Makes a big difference.  If it's only NYS and/or NYC, then Obama/Biden et als push to ban guns should be pointed out to be the giant lie that it is.

[AZRedhawk44]

And a full-auto?  I wonder how they got that. 

If done legally, it was bought by someone who took 6 months to go through all the paperwork and background checks, who then sold it FTF illegally, at which point the illegal buyer illegally transported it interstate (Fed Law), then illegally entered NY without reporting it (NY State Law), then illegally entered NYC without reporting it (NYC law).

Already have laws.  Lots of laws.

And that's if it was bought legally, as Bloomberg is attempting to insinuate with his lax gun laws comment.

More than likely, it's a homemade chop-job of a MAC10 or AK, or a homemade DIAS in an AR.  Which then means there's already FedLaws against that.  And it has nothing to do with finger-pointing to South Carolina.

[Levant]

You can't help but wonder how many of these were bought by Bloomberg hacks... again.

Oh wait... here it is:

A large majority of the guns were purchased by an undercover police officer in 45 transactions since 2012, authorities said.

Undercop tells flunky to go to SC, provides the name of stores, or possibly fake ID, and says to buy guns and bring them back. 

Yes, if the police send people to break the law, the law will get broken.

[roo_ster]

I'm quite sure that any police chief that implemented this where I live would be fired within a day. It would probably help crime stats if we threw all poor people into ovens. Doesn't mean it's the right or ethical thing to do.

No matter the rate of criminality in any particular ethnicity, the 4th Amendment applies.

[Levant]

No matter the rate of criminality in any particular ethnicity, the 4th Amendment applies.

Thank you!  There is no circumstance in the entire world that excuses or allows the government to operate outside of the very document that authorizes their existence. To operate outside of that document is to operate on their own and not as an entity created by the founding document.  When they operate on their own they operate as common criminals and need to be treated as such.